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  #26  
Unread 11th of March, 2009, 08:46
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"Wary, in any case." Tatyana murmurs. Her expression is slightly discomforted, put off by the remains.

(OOC: "We can be pretty sure that this was him, though, and he was hung."
"...he was hung." *SNIGGER* Heheheehh... you said "hung"...)
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  #27  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 00:25
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Rurik nods his agreement to Tatyana, then clasping his hands behind his back as he finishes with Benson and moves over to examine Swanns remains. These he pokes and prods a bit through the plastic. "I want to know if the feathers are part of a costume or if they were somehow his own." He says as he continues examining.

How old of a kindred would Rurik estimate to leave such remains?
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Unread 12th of March, 2009, 05:02
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"The only way we could know for sure is if we got an expert ornithologist to look at them, or ran DNA. That will take time to set up and might cause people to wonder. The feathers were functionally his - they are attached by sinew and flesh. Whether they were grafted there by some power, or he grew them himself...I'm not sure it would be worth the effort to find out forensically."

She's not being insubordinate, as much as simply stating facts. She seems sure of who she really works for...and it's not Clan Ventrue.

"Or maybe there is some arcane magick that can tell without involving anyone else...
If you really want to do either of those things, you'll have to talk to the Chantry. It's beyond my ability or authority."

Rurik's rough estimate would be 60-90 years of Kindred existence, for the remains to be in their current state of decomposition. He doesn't know of any scientific test that has ever been developed to date Kindred decomposition.
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  #29  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 05:27
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Rurik sniffs slightly and nods his acceptance. "You have answered my question." he says. "Now. Their effects?" he asks
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Unread 12th of March, 2009, 05:35
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Tatyana touches his arm softly and murmurs "The others... the Tremere, Brujah, and our Ventrue brother...?"
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Unread 12th of March, 2009, 05:41
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Rurik blinks, straitening and nodding to Tatyana. "I have not forgotten. I intended to view each in turn, remains and effects together." he says. "It really doesn't matter however, so long as we proceed. Unless you have further inquiries concerning these?" he says, straitening the front of his coat with a smoothing motion. ( Assuming a negative response. ) His eyes settle on the ME with an expecting look.

Swann -- Is the age estimate of the remains consistent with the reputed age of Swann?
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  #32  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 05:59
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She does indeed indicate no further inquiries.
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  #33  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 10:42
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[Yes, he is thought to have been Embraced sometime during the Roaring Twenties]

"Their effects are mostly elsewhere - either at the crime lab, or in the police evidence vaults. Sorry. Mostly we just work with the bodies here. And speaking of bodies..." She shoves Swann's remains back into the unmarked receptacle, then moves over to another. "Here's Swann's...co-victim, I suppose you could say. Do you mind?"

She indicates that she would like Rurik to help pull open the drawer. Presuming he does so (with relative ease):

"This is Kristine Wilson. She was hung and strangled with piano wire attached to a heavy hook set in an overhead beam. All medical indications were that she hung slowly, presumably in agony, but conversely she did not seem to have struggled. There are no indications that she was bound, nor did she grasp at her neck, or at the wire, as might have been expected. It seems she either went willingly, or she was Dominated, charmed, drugged or unconscious and placed into the noose." She rubs her hands on her arms, breath still steaming in the chill air. "The Nazis used to do that, for heinous crimes...but that's not what's interesting to me."

She points at the torso, near the ribcage. "See that?" That turns out to be two rows of four punctures each, vertically beneath each breast.
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  #34  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 11:00
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OOC Do the punctures seem to be fang marks?

Softly "I understand the need for discretion, of course. You will make... investigations? To determine if there are drugs or other additives in what is left of their systems?"
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  #35  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 11:19
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[Not in Tatyana's opinion.]

"Blood pathology takes at least a whole day even if it were top priority. Unfortunately it's not. We have had four more murders since these, and have a lab backlog of at least forty sets of samples. DC averages more than three a day, did you know that? I asked about getting these moved up..."

[IRL it actually averages slightly more than one every two days...but this is WOD after all]

She runs her hand though her short blonde hair in frustration. "The Chantry isn't willing to interfere to do that...so I have to do the lab work myself. I should have results tomorrow morning, I'm going to have to pull another all-nighter. Hope to hell they don't have a whiz quiz in the next couple of days." Her mouth quirks up. "Dexedrine is my friend."
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  #36  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 11:36
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Tatyana gives her a slight smile. "Your ... mentors may be anxious for results, but I am able to bid my time. Please do what you can within the confines of your position here."

"I do wonder.... this poor unfortunate here...." she indicates, without really looking "... are there marks that could show something was... well, attached, that would have weighted her, strangling her?"
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  #37  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 12:37
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"No, it was just her body weight that strangled her in the wire loop, which was a slip-knot. You can see the deep indentation on the neck, which nevertheless did not cut through the muscles."

"These punctures are light, small, and sharp...they are similar to the punctures on the first body I showed you, but with none of the bruising. See..." she hold her hands to put her fingertips roughly where the punctures are. Her hands aren't large enough by half. "As if something with large, clawed hands gently lifted her into position...like a ballet dancer..."
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  #38  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 13:00
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Not Lupine... I'm sure of that. Too controled. Perhaps... Gangrel? They can't have much of a presence in this city. Something else with claws?
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  #39  
Unread 12th of March, 2009, 23:17
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OOC: How symmetrical are the rows of punctures? And how deep/large are they? Consistent with claws/knives/whatever? Needlemarks? From something with claws lifting her ( which I would assume would make the wounds stretch more top to bottom? ), or from some sort of deliberate wounding, serial killer-like? Are the wounds below the rib-cage, or on it underneath the breasts?
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  #40  
Unread 14th of March, 2009, 04:30
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[The punctures are about the size of a wooden pencil-point (old-fashioned style), consistent with something with claws lifting here, as stated above by the ME. They are on the ribcage, one row under sach breast, as if something grapsed her relatively gently from behind, as you might pick up a small child around the torso, but nevertheless punctured her flesh.]
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  #41  
Unread 14th of March, 2009, 05:45
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Rurik bends low over the body to examine the punctures, eyes squinting. Reaching out he splays his fingertips over the punctures as if he was the killer again, making a grabbing motion and trying to get a 'feel' for how large of a hand made the wounds... and mentally comparing it with the previous handprint that was discovered.

"Mmm. This 'may' be consistent marking with the other remains. What do you two think? A comparative size of hand?" he says, his voice soft and speculative.
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Unread 14th of March, 2009, 05:57
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The handprints could easily be the same one, same size, he believes. Boudry confirms it with understated triumph.

"Yes, I have already measured the digits and run it through a computer model. If they are not the same hands, they are very close."

Last edited by Wired*Nun; 16th of March, 2009 at 04:30.
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  #43  
Unread 15th of March, 2009, 21:49
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Rurik quirks a brow towards the ME before nodding. "Very good then." he says. "Any other noteworthy details before we move on?" he adds, straitening and clasping his hands behind his back and resuming a more patient seeming mein.
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  #44  
Unread 16th of March, 2009, 10:45
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"On this one? No." She pushes the heavy drawer closed by herself after a half-beat glance at Rurik and his parade-rest stance. She gives Tayana a sisterly roll of the eyes, as if to say, "Men are morons."

She moves over to the other wall, on which are what appear to be a different type of drawer, each of which has a number on a glowing display on it. They all read "-12". She turns a control from left to right, then pushes a large "OPEN" button. The drawer slides out, hissing. Probably pneumatics of some sort. Condensation fog flows off of the sideless drawer slab, left pooling in the shallow stainless-steel pan that holds the body parts. There are four large pieces of the body, then the head.

"This is Dominic Kellough, pretty much as he was found. He's been kept frozen to preserve him from supernatural decomposition and to ostensibly minimize forensic decay. He was chopped up by a meat cleaver or something like it just after being frozen, then was torn apart to finish the job where the cuts were not complete. There are rope marks on the upper arms and legs, and around the neck. From the forensic evidence, he and the other one were very likely tied before any damage, frozen to death or immobility, held in place by those ropes on some kind of hard surface - a floor or table - chopped first from the front, then flipped over to the back, chopped again, then torn apart. Dominic was done first, then Selwyn Circe - " she points to another freezer drawer - "was done the same way, except no neck rope. He was killed - well, dismembered, he was probably frozen dead already - in the same place. We know this because Dominic did not have mortal blood on himself or his clothing, but Circe had some icy Kindred blood on him."

Last edited by Wired*Nun; 16th of March, 2009 at 11:21.
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  #45  
Unread 16th of March, 2009, 11:20
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Tatyana, slightly behind Rurik, answers with an understanding (and agreeing) half smile.

Last edited by Darqueone; 16th of March, 2009 at 11:25. Reason: I'm a dumbass....
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  #46  
Unread 17th of March, 2009, 05:46
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Rurik takes his time, examining the cutting and rending of the flesh with a patient and detailed manner. He does not however touch this corpse as he has done the others during his thinking. Taking a deep breath he speculates aloud just as before. "Have you been able to determine the approximate size of the cutting instrument? And anything about the method of tearing?" he says. "Also, is there reason to think that these two were killed on location, or no?"
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  #47  
Unread 17th of March, 2009, 06:39
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"The length of the cuts are 23cm, depth varies between 5 and 10. The method of tearing is that the ropes were drawn upon, by something forceful, machine or creature. Incidentally, the instrument matches the approximate size and specifics of the decapitations. As for location, they were not killed in the cooler. Other than that, you will have to ask the police, I believe they have some leads. I don't think they found a place of death on the site, but I am not up on all the particulars."
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  #48  
Unread 17th of March, 2009, 06:50
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Tatyana asks, hesitantly "Forgive, please... to be clear... when the, ah, body, was torn apart...

"... the tears happened simultaniously? Or was the body fixed in place, and torn piece by piece? First a quarter, then re-fixed as needed and torn again, then re-fixed and again?" She suits hand motions to her question, describing with gestures.

"Or were the tears made at the same time, as if there were four ... people... pulling on ropes identically?"
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  #49  
Unread 17th of March, 2009, 07:14
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"That's very difficult to tell, since the bodies were mostly frozen at the time. My educated guess is, they were pulled on simultaneously. Like the medieval executioners would do, drawn and quartered. Perforating them beforehand resulted in a much cleaner, more consistent quartering. In the middle ages, most times the result would be three limbs torn off and the rest all together, by the vagaries of physics."

as if there were four ... people... pulling on ropes identically
"As if, yes. Whether it was four people, or two very stong people, possibly using some kind of pulley mechanism...or even a machine such as one or more winches...impossible to tell."
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Unread 17th of March, 2009, 07:19
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"Frozen... when they were mutilated?" She lifts an elegant eyebrow. "Hmm." She falls back into thinking silence.
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