Online-Roleplaying.community

Go Back   Online-Roleplaying.community > Public Commonness > Adventurer's Escapades > Tournaments

Reply
Thread Tools
  #126  
Unread 1st of March, 2006, 02:34
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
Bad luck? You're contesting for the Championship. How much better do you think you're luck needs to be?
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Unread 1st of March, 2006, 04:34
Lord Twig's Avatar
Lord Twig
Nightwing

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1477
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,481 (0.31 per day)
Well, I like to think of that as skill.

Did you see the private message I sent? You didn't add the +3 to Lily's attack from the crowd bonus. She actually would have hit.

I guess my luck isn't that bad after all!
__________________
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various characters do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of the player.
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Unread 1st of March, 2006, 07:16
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
I saw it. As I noted in the IC thread, since Burning Sand already posted, I'm not going to go back and change the outcome of the previous round. However, since the "luck" seems to be going both ways, it appears to just be a delay of the inevitable.
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Unread 1st of March, 2006, 08:46
Lord Twig's Avatar
Lord Twig
Nightwing

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1477
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,481 (0.31 per day)
Not sure how much it will matter since Andorax may be bowing out anyway, but a 16 is a Critical Threat for Lily (Rapier + Improved Critical). So if Lily confirms her Threat (very likely), Burning Sand will be killed outright.

Lily's in character reasons for not pulling her attack are two-fold. First, she knows that she has to take out Burning Sand fast before he gets a hold of her. And second, Burning Sand's casual slaying of the Lone Halfling has removed him from her list of "Good People" that she would be sorry to see die. So while she was not lusting after his blood like she was with Ok Bok, if he did happen to die in the heat of combat, "Oh well!"
__________________
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various characters do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of the player.
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Unread 2nd of March, 2006, 00:52
Andorax's Avatar
Andorax
Ghoul

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1481
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posts: 176 (0.04 per day)
It hardly matters...if he had survived the match, he was leaving in the night anyways, so either way Lily's the champion.
__________________
Whadda ya mean, Orcs got levels too?
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Unread 2nd of March, 2006, 02:32
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
Since it doesn't make a difference, I'm going to leave it as is.

Now that the tournament is over, however, I'd like some feed back on how things went. In particular I'm looking for suggestions on how the rules should be changed for the next time a gladiator tournament is run. Having seen the rules in action, there are definately some things that I'm thinking of changing, but I'd like to hear from the participants and spectators about what they thought didn't work so well and should be different next time.
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Unread 3rd of March, 2006, 01:13
Andorax's Avatar
Andorax
Ghoul

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1481
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posts: 176 (0.04 per day)
One thing grates. Your ruling on applying bonus damage to each missile of a magic missile, or each ray of a scorching ray...even after it was pointed out that a similar precident (Warmage from CA's bonus damage from high Int) works differently. That made spells such as (and paritcularly) magic missile far more powerful than they ever should have been.
__________________
Whadda ya mean, Orcs got levels too?
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Unread 3rd of March, 2006, 02:19
generaljimX's Avatar
generaljimX
The Black [GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1504
Location: Indiana, US
Posts: 1,737 (0.37 per day)
Personally, I think the damage bonus should apply to just the first attack in a sequence, be it with two weapons, rapid shot, magic missle, or scorching ray. In the case of the last two, apply to the first missle or ray.

Or, with things such as multiple attacks or rays, apply to the first attack to hit. I'm having a really hard time trying to get across what I'm trying to, but if someone understands, they may be able to translate my nonsense(it reads like nonsense to me, and I'm the one writing it. I can only wonder if anyone will understand me.).
__________________
Minion of Doom
Owner of a Benicus Man-Card, an akiko kumquat, an Illusioned Anori Hilt Badge, a zachol iced green tea, and a Link Deku Leaf.
Situation: Normal
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Unread 3rd of March, 2006, 03:38
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
The bonus damage was one of the things I didn't like, in particular how it interacted with spells. The original ruling said that the bonus applied to all damage rolls, and those spells had seperate damage rolls, so I didn't want to change things midstream. In hind sight, however, I probably should have. I'm actually thinking that the bonus damage shouldn't apply to spells at all. (I'm also probably going to even further restrict spells, but that's a different issue.)

As for genearljomX's suggestion that the bonus only apply on the first successful hit each round (yes, I did understand his nonsense), I don't like that idea for physical attacks. Bonuses that function like that are generally percision based bonuses. This bonus is a morale bonus. Its that oomph you get from adreniline high that having people cheering for you creates.
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Unread 3rd of March, 2006, 11:21
Lord Twig's Avatar
Lord Twig
Nightwing

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1477
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,481 (0.31 per day)
I will agree that the damage added to spells was too much. I think it should have only been added once to each spell. Or maybe just to each attack roll. That would mean that Scorching Ray would still get the bonus twice, but Magic Missile wouldn't get it at all.

One of the things I didn't like was the use of the Dragon Blood potions (or whatever they were). I know they were banned after use, but they shouldn't have been allowed even once. Krynn lost because of an item that he couldn't use.

I just think that the contest should not be effected because someone is able to find a loophole in the rules. The whole idea of letting someone effectively cheat, even if it is just once, because they were clever about it doesn't sit right with me.
__________________
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various characters do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of the player.
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Unread 3rd of March, 2006, 23:23
Andorax's Avatar
Andorax
Ghoul

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1481
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posts: 176 (0.04 per day)
Agreed. The Dragonblood potions were over the top. It's a case of my grasping at a technical straw to try to turn an otherwise hopeless match, somewhere I shouldn't have gone.


Another thought...single-action that produces multiple croud bonuses. I'm referring specifically to Mirror Image, though there are other instances. Getting the "fooled by illusion" bonus for EVERY attack that hits an image is over the top. The croud bonus should only have applied once, particularly if after that it became obvious the gladiator was intentionally trying to winnow down the images (not "fooled" at all...that's his intent).

Let's see...what else.

Being mounted = virtual immunity to grappling.

Creatures who go after the nearest opponent, no matter what circumstances, instead of some "logical interpretation" of their behavior. This is a tricky one, as it can also scare up the spectre of DM favoritism with the beasts, but Sareno really did think he had a logical course of action, and that a dire boar wouldn't try to climb up onto a tall platform to pursue him .

Not sure how, but clearer rules on the heights, widths, and corners of the platforms...I wasn't the only one confused by this...and on the lengths of chain and reach of creatures.

I'll post more if they occur.

Oh...and Shadow Mastifs. Burning Sand's victory against an opponent who ran in fear the entire match was just lame.
__________________
Whadda ya mean, Orcs got levels too?
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 04:03
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
How do you suggest grappling a mounted character be handled? There are no specific rules on this issue and I tried to follow the rules that are there as literally as possible.
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 04:36
Lord Twig's Avatar
Lord Twig
Nightwing

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1477
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,481 (0.31 per day)
I would just like to say that while we are focusing on the things that were problems, overall the handling of the tournament was excellent.

Thanks!
__________________
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various characters do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of the player.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 05:29
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
Speaking of the equipment rules, what did people think of them in general? I realize that some items turned out to be definate no-nos, but what did people think of the rules for items in general?
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 09:52
Lord Twig's Avatar
Lord Twig
Nightwing

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1477
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 1,481 (0.31 per day)
The equipment in general worked fairly well, but it definitely favored "lighter" builds. So Lily and Callen was never hurting for equipment, but our sturdy Dwarven Defender really could have used Adamant full plate.

Especially with Sunder being as prevalent as it was, an Adamant weapon became almost a necessity. So an axe, shield and full plate gets reduced to adamant axe, shield and breast plate. if you wanted your shield to survive you then were stuck with adamant axe, adamant shield and chain shirt.

It just would have been nice to see some really good "tank" builds.

For other items, it might be nice to just have a list of what is available instead of saying "all of this type of item" and then letting people dig through source books for something that will give them an advantage.
__________________
The opinions, beliefs and viewpoints expressed by the various characters do not necessarily reflect the opinions, beliefs and viewpoints of the player.
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 10:08
Andorax's Avatar
Andorax
Ghoul

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1481
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posts: 176 (0.04 per day)
Originally Posted by Black Plauge How do you suggest grappling a mounted character be handled? There are no specific rules on this issue and I tried to follow the rules that are there as literally as possible.
My recommendation is to treat rider and mount as one. Let them oppose the grapple attempt with either the mount or the rider's best grapple or escape, and if they fail, both creatures are in the grapple.
__________________
Whadda ya mean, Orcs got levels too?
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Unread 4th of March, 2006, 10:22
Boomlaor's Avatar
Boomlaor
Devourer

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1478
Location: St. George, UT
Posts: 1,151 (0.24 per day)
I would suggest using the higher of the rider's ride or grapple skills. If the rider loses the grapple check, he is pulled from his horse into the square the attacker is in, and they are in a grapple.

Boomlaor
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Unread 8th of March, 2006, 02:34
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
While anyone can join a pre-existing grapple, it takes a creature with Improved Grab to draw more than one creature into the grapple, and they take a -20 penalty on the grapple check to bring in the second.

It also takes a creature with Improved Grab to pull a grappled into their space rather than stepping into their opponents.

Since both are already addressed in the rules for a special ability, I don't like these suggestions because they essentially grant everyone some of the abilities of Improved Grab, reducing the relative power level of mosters that have it.

That said, I don't know what to do about it. I understand Andorax's point that being mounted is near immunity to grappling. Under RAW you have to first Trip the opponent to pull them from their mount and the rider can oppose this trip attempt (which is a straight Str check) with their Ride skill (which will naturally increase much faster). This is a really unbalanced check for the one attempting to pull down the rider, even with favorable size modifiers for the attacker. Since Trip size modifiers aren't based on relative size, but on absolute size, the rider gets to ignore their size modifier if its adventageous to do so (i.e. they have a bunch of ranks in Ride). Even the Improved Trip feat does little to alleviate this since it only increases the attacker's Str check by 4. A mounted character who has Ride maxed out compensated for that at 1st level. Additional levels beyond that make it even more likely that they will resist the attempt.

Take the Lone Halfling as an example. His Ride modifier was +19. Compare that to his Dex check to resist being tripped: +1.
Burning Sand, on the other hand had a +8 modifier to attempt a Trip, which he could have increased to +15 through power manifestation (animal affinity to Str and expansion for 1 size category) and to +19 if he had taken Improved Trip. Outside of the tournament rules on size category, he could have added a further +5 to the modifier by using expansion to gain two size categories instead of 1.

Hmm... I seem to have argued myself into a corner here. Some one else care to take over?
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Unread 8th of March, 2006, 03:09
Andorax's Avatar
Andorax
Ghoul

User is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Member: #1481
Location: Boise, ID, USA
Posts: 176 (0.04 per day)
Originally Posted by Black Plauge While anyone can join a pre-existing grapple, it takes a creature with Improved Grab to draw more than one creature into the grapple, and they take a -20 penalty on the grapple check to bring in the second.

It also takes a creature with Improved Grab to pull a grappled into their space rather than stepping into their opponents.

Since both are already addressed in the rules for a special ability, I don't like these suggestions because they essentially grant everyone some of the abilities of Improved Grab, reducing the relative power level of mosters that have it.
The only issue I have with this is that it pre-assumes two discrete, separate individuals. A rider and his mount are not entirely the same.

Taken from another point of view, one could say that the grapple attempt is made against one target, who moves into the same space as the rider (and mount), normally illegal, and the mount is automatically drawn into the grapple by virtue of being in the same space (another interpretation, differing obviously from your ruling of "you can't move into the square because someone you're not grappling is there, therefore you can't grapple".

Consider another situation. Rather than a mount, consider instead a familiar. It's another separate, discrete creature. Could the presence of a familiar make you ungrappable for the same reason (can't move in, square's already occupied by someone you're not grappling)?

Of course not...that's ridiculous. But the rider example isn't.


How about this. Give the rider the option. He can either oppose the grapple on his own, in which case the steed is not drawn into the grapple (even though all three temporarially occupy the same space) or he opposes it with his or his mount's check, in which case the steed is voluntarially being drawn into the grapple as well as an "all or nothing". Essentially, the mount is choosing to "automatically join into the grapple" as an out-of-turn action in order to help its rider fight off the attempt.
__________________
Whadda ya mean, Orcs got levels too?
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Unread 8th of March, 2006, 04:55
Black Plauge's Avatar
Black Plauge
PhD in Physics [Epic GM]

User is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Member: #192
Location: Old Town, ME
Posts: 6,801 (1.16 per day)
A familiar is an unfair comparison because most are smaller than their caster, thus posing less of an obstacle to the attacker. A mount is always larger than its rider, so it poses a considerably larger problem.

I'll think about your suggestion, however.
__________________
Physics is like sex. Sometimes it yields practical results, but that's not why we do it.
-Richard Feynman
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 06:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Graphics by Koert van Kleef (T0N!C) and Lyle Warren