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  #76  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 01:18
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Re: Dire Werebear

1) I don't find a template for that anywhere in what sources I have. Dire WereBOAR, yes, but not dire WereBEAR. I'm sure it's an easy tweak, but I'm not sure how to do it.

2) I'm FAIRLY certain that I'd have to give up more class levels for a few additional beast levels. As it is, I'm already coughing up something like 6 class levels for "bear". When you're making a skillful character and have 6 levels with only 4-5 skill points, that kind of hurts. It's all about balancing out gains vs. losses.
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  #77  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 01:27
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Ahhhh, I see. I certainly can understand that. That's what is causing me a lot of issues with my character creation, , as well as some other stuff.
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  #78  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 02:32
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Chris, is there any way to open another thread here where I could pick y'alls brains for the campaign I'm going to be DMing? I'd love to share my ideas with you and get some feedback - but I don't want to hijack what's going on in this thread.
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  #79  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 03:05
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“ Does Aros hate clerics, druids, and mages with equal venom? ”
No, he's mostly against arcane casters; blaster types and controller types in particular. In Red Hand of Doom, he's partied up with mostly casters (of which Chris is one -- probably his favorite, to boot), so I cut back on the outright hatred. It's more of a deep distrust that occasionally peaks into loathing. Magic for utilitarian purposes is fine -- with ten levels of Suel Arcanamach, Aros will actually have some spellcasting ability himself (a fight fire with fire attitude), but only abjuration, divination, illusions, and transmutation. Stuff that will have little to no direct effect on his adversaries.

He's also more forgiving towards those he's familiar with. zachol's character Jean, a typical blaster-type, is alright because she's part of his unit, although there was some tension early on. Druids are just peachy keen as far as he's concerned, but that's probably because they tend more towards protective/enabling spells rather than explosions and mind control. Might also be because he's worked with druids more than other classes, a la Dahai. As far as getting healed, he's all for it.

Chris is pretty familiar with the character, so I'm sure if he foresees any difficulty, he'll let me know. Also, if you guys are interested in scoping him out yourself, you can check it out in Merc's game.

Chris, I was thinking a neat addition to Aros would be the Spellwarped template from MM3. It's an inherited template, but I was thinking that whatever moved him from Eberron to Athas (or some other place, and then there to here) magically 'irradiated' him. That sound acceptable to you?
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  #80  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 06:49
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“ Originally Posted by MadDogMaddux # Re: Dire Werebear

1) I don't find a template for that anywhere in what sources I have. Dire WereBOAR, yes, but not dire WereBEAR. I'm sure it's an easy tweak, but I'm not sure how to do it.

2) I'm FAIRLY certain that I'd have to give up more class levels for a few additional beast levels. As it is, I'm already coughing up something like 6 class levels for "bear". When you're making a skillful character and have 6 levels with only 4-5 skill points, that kind of hurts. It's all about balancing out gains vs. losses.
”
1. Note that the templates are for common lycanthrope. There is the decided expectation to apply the mechanics of the lycanthrope to any animal model, be it rat, bear, shark, or t-rex. If you are interested in that, I'll put it together for you.

2. The Dire bear would be 12 levels instead of 6, so there is that sacrifice, true. Since you are angling toward a skill-focused character, it might be a good idea to stick with brown bear, rather than dire bear. The polar bear might be another option. We can give him a coat of brown paint and call him a cave bear .

“ Chris, is there any way to open another thread here where I could pick y'alls brains for the campaign I'm going to be DMing? I'd love to share my ideas with you and get some feedback - but I don't want to hijack what's going on in this thread. ”
Sure, why not? I can put another thread in.

“ In Red Hand of Doom, he's partied up with mostly casters (of which Chris is one -- probably his favorite, to boot) ”
He does love me!!!

“ Chris is pretty familiar with the character, so I'm sure if he foresees any difficulty, he'll let me know. Also, if you guys are interested in scoping him out yourself, you can check it out in Merc's game.

Chris, I was thinking a neat addition to Aros would be the Spellwarped template from MM3. It's an inherited template, but I was thinking that whatever moved him from Eberron to Athas (or some other place, and then there to here) magically 'irradiated' him. That sound acceptable to you?
”
Where do you think LadyGlutter and LightBringer scoped you, Doom? I sent them to the source of our best interaction!

I'll take a look at the template this evening - I remember bits of it offhand, but I don't think that anything like that should be inappropriate. I think it's a good idea, but I'll bless it after I look it up.

As a related note, many of you are discussing creatures with an LA of at least +1. That gobbles up useful levels, so I'm going to implement an Unearthed Arcana rule. Take a look and see if it might apply to you. I'll open the rule up to apply to any inherited template. This will help to take the curse off, so to speak. Don't worry about lost experience or anything like that, but rather consider yourself "caught up".
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  #81  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 06:56
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I like the idea of reducing Level Adjustment - just not sure how to math that in. Currently I have 6 levels of Werebear. Does that mean I should amend it to reflect having 5 levels of werebear now?
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  #82  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 07:27
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It is based off of Level Adjustment (LA). The werebear has a LA of +4. You would have burnt the XP to lower the LA to +3 at level 12, then +2 at +15, and +1 and level 18, then eliminating it at level 21.

That means that for you folks that are looking at LA, anything less that LA +6 can be "bought off" for this campaign.

Hey, holy crap! 6 levels!
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  #83  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 07:42
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SuhWEET!

So....hrm, you're saying I should just roll up 25 levels of non-werebear, then apply the Werebear template on top of that without the extra 6 levels. Ya?
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  #84  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 07:46
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Well, the bear hit dice still count for 6 of the 25 levels, so don't forget about that.
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  #85  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 07:52
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Hrm. Ok, then I'm not sure how the rule affects me. The crunchy stuff I have in Hero Forge already contains 6 levels of Werebear. *scratches head*
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  #86  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 07:56
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Just, .
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  #87  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 08:47
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You need to account for Effective Character Level (ECL). ECL = Hit Dice + Level Adjustment + Class Levels. A 1st level human wearbear fighter, therefore, is ECL 11.
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  #88  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 08:57
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Gottit. So with the Unearthed Arcana, my Werebear can be ECL 25 with 6 Bear levels and 19 class levels.
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  #89  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 08:58
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Exactly. That's right.
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  #90  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 09:21
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OK, Chris. Here's the rough sketch of Malek's Bio. I haven't done the stuff on his personality, etc. But it's a good start, IMO. I'm open to comments.

The "thing" which can be used to justify Malek being Epic is what I'm using in my home campaign to turn the Characters into Gestalt Characters, but I figure it can work fine. Heh, it also gives a basic sketch of where I'm planning on taking the campaign I'm about to start DMing.

Again, I'm definitely open to comments.
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  #91  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 11:40
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Chris, you know that Aros' favorite toy is his fancy pig-sticker, which has the Magebane Quality. Would it be possible to get it upgraded to the 'Dread' epic ability against 'mages' as well? It's essentially the same as having a regular bane/dread weapon, but the creature types on the list don't fit his style. A Mage-Dread weapon would be much more fitting.
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  #92  
Unread 29th of May, 2008, 23:50
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I have a interesting question for you Chris. If somethings description is always Lawful Good, are we allowed to stray to say, Neutral Good? How tough are we being on my favorite D&D topic?
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  #93  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 00:04
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... Enough I can't play a Paladin/Druid, I know that much at least.
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  #94  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 00:14
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Doom - the spellwarped template looks not only fine, but very appropriate for this character. As far as Anglachel is concerned, Magebane is only for arcane casters now (which weakens it a bit), and dread is just beefed up bane. Were you looking at having both qualities, or replacing one with the other? If we do the first, it will be an effective +9 weapon (+1 enhancement, +1 magebane, +7 magedread) without anything else, and I would have to say that the bane and dread attack bonuses would overlap, not stack. You could replace bane with dread (making the weapon +8), and not have the overlap.

LB: It honestly depends. If it is a creature that isn't directly tied to a specific plane of existence, then I'd have to say that it would need to adhere to that alignment (because the planes are segregated by that defining feature). If the creature isn't, even if it is an outsider, then I'd have to look at the creature and figure out why WOTC decided to shoehorn something.
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  #95  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 00:15
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“ Originally Posted by LadyGlutter # ... Enough I can't play a Paladin/Druid, I know that much at least. ”
Well, you can play an ex-druid paladin, or a fallen paladin druid... That's not quite the same, though.
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  #96  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 00:35
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No, it's not. You're right there.
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  #97  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 02:18
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About the level adjustment, according to the rules if I choose a character with LA 6, I can't start reducing LA until level 18. So I would only be able to reduced 3 levels down, not the entire 6 levels.

I was doing it backwards anyway. I was adding the LA to my characters ECL and not including the Hit Dice. If something has 4 hit dice and a LA of +2, why didn't they just say the LA was +6 to begin with?
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  #98  
Unread 30th of May, 2008, 02:39
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LightBringer is right about the rules on reducing level adjustment. A pixie with a LA of +4 can buy off its first level at 12th, its second at 21st, its third at 27th and its fourth at 30th. This means that only a +3 LA can be bought off entirely until level 25 according to the RAW. Unless I'm making a mistake myself.

“ If something has 4 hit dice and a LA of +2, why didn't they just say the LA was +6 to begin with? ”
That's a very PC-ey way of thinking. Think of a creature with a level adjustment of +6 and... uh... two HD or class levels? It's way too dead way too quickly. Therefore they decided to make up for the benefits of a race by giving it LA on the one hand and the weaker HD on the other.

This whole campaign sounds like an adventure in its entirety. I'll be watching with interest.
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Unread 30th of May, 2008, 02:46
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“ That's a very PC-ey way of thinking. Think of a creature with a level adjustment of +6 and... uh... two HD or class levels? It's way too dead way too quickly. Therefore they decided to make up for the benefits of a race by giving it LA on the one hand and the weaker HD on the other. ”

Ahhh, but if it has LA +6 and 2 HD it's a ECL of 8 without any other class levels. So it still has to stay on par with level 8 characters, so they could have just listed it as ECL 8 instead of all the extra math.

Gotta run to lunch, I'll be back.
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Unread 30th of May, 2008, 03:16
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I was looking to have Magebane upgraded to Magedread, since I didn't expect the bonuses would stack. Would it still affect creatures with arcane SLAs? I'll probably think of some other goodies to go on it as well. For one thing, at this point it will no longer be Anglachel (Iron Flames), but Gurthang (Iron Death), in keeping with the original reference. This probably took place after it was reforged with 'starmetal,' as described in CA.
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