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  #1  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 08:41
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Okay, first question, and it appears to be one on the Paizo boards as well--with Ultimate Combat pumping out a ton of new weapons specifically designed for monks, there seems to be a large disconnect as there was no commensurate "add these weapons to monk proficiencies."

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 11:17
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I'd say no. Monks start with a fairly definite list of proficiencies, and the "monk" descriptor just means that you get to perform a flurry of blows with it.

Some weapons, like the temple sword from APG, say right in the description that monks are proficient in it. If that description is missing, than you need to take a prof. in it.
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  #3  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 11:48
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I'm not suggesting that they should get all the weapons. I'm suggesting they should get a few, at the very least. Compare with the ninja, which gets something like 3 times as many weapons to pick from.

The counter-argument, and seeming consensus at Paizo's boards, is that's a LOT of weapons specifically build for monks that monks can't use. That means that any monk who wants to use any of those weapons has to spend an EWP to use a weapon built for monks--like a bo staff. Having to have a separate proficiency from quarterstaff to use a bo staff is ridiculous.

Paizo added 24 weapons that monks can flurry with, but to use any of them they have to spend a feat. I think there must have been an oversight. To go back to your APG reference, they added one, and only one, monk weapon and it was tacked onto the monk list. Something like bo staffs and tonfas should at least have been included. In fact, the bo staff makes more sense than the quarterstaff and the tonfa more than the crossbow or the handaxe.

EDITED to add - a one level dip into Unarmed Fighter actually becomes broken, in this context. You don't lose much of anything on the very end of the monk class, and gain proficiency in every monk weapon both current and in any future supplements, because of the way it's worded. Right now, that's my plan. I'll take Monk 1 (my current build-in-progress uses Flowing Monk) and then Fighter 1, and then Monk 18. I'll lose +1 AC and Perfect Self, but I'll gain a crapload of proficiencies and any one style feat regardless of prereqs.

Last edited by Mercutio; 29th of August, 2011 at 12:27.
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  #4  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 15:54
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Not to be an ass, but this organized play thing seems to strongly forbid house rules along those lines. I would certainly allow it, but I'm a very loose sort of DM. Instead of, you know, a faceless organization intent on making sure everyone follows the rules exactly.
It is a pretty dumb oversight though you should email them or something. Also in general a lot of these eastern weapons being exotic is a little strange. Especially a bo staff (seriously that's not just a quarterstaff? wtf?).

Also I still don't know what to go with. I'm currently taking a long look at an Oracle of Life. If someone was thinking cleric, though, I might go with cavalier or just fighter.
Can someone with more experience give their impressions on how effective I could be focusing on a reach-only weapon? I'm sort of imagining this dude on a horse with a poleaxe or something.
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Unread 29th of August, 2011, 16:43
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The saddest part? The temple sword is better than every monk weapon in Ultimate Combat except the sansetsukon.

It sucks and I'm hoping for errata, but for now let's try to overlook it.

“ Originally Posted by Mercutio # Monk 18 ”
Note that PFS is capped at level 12.

“ Originally Posted by zachol # Can someone with more experience give their impressions on how effective I could be focusing on a reach-only weapon? I'm sort of imagining this dude on a horse with a poleaxe or something. ”
For mounted combat you really want to be small, riding a dog or wolf, so that going indoors is not a huge penalty. Reach-only is not a big deal for a mounted character, because your mount threatens where you don't, and you can usually five-foot anyways. The biggest problem with reach weapons appear when you're enlarged and end up with a ten-foot blind spot, but you don't want to be enlarged as a mounted warrior anyways--especially not if you're small.
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Unread 29th of August, 2011, 16:46
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Halfling Cavalier of the Blue Rose, then. Riding a wolf.
Feeling pretty good about this.
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  #7  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 17:00
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One catch: for this tactic to work without fail, you need both a ride and a handle animal check of at least +9. It's a DC 10 ride check to fight at the same time as your mount, and a DC 10 handle animal check to get the mount to back down/attack again so that you're making your attacks in rhythm. Fail the first and you can't attack, fail the second and the wolf won't five-foot where it needs to be.
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Unread 29th of August, 2011, 17:06
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That sounds about 4 too high, maybe.
We'll see though. A little pacifistic halfling dude on a wolf is pretty fucking awesome I must say.
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  #9  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 19:26
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I'm thinking half-elf druid. Nothing special, really. Someone ought to have a high perception skill, right?

Any tips on non-core stuff for a druid LeadPal? Otherwise I'd tend to go with augment summoning for his feat (at 3rd level, obviously).
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Unread 29th of August, 2011, 20:05
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Not really. Menhir Savant archetype can get a small caster level boost and has cool fluff, although it gives up wild empathy. World Walker archetype trades a few minor abilities for favoured terrain, which is fairly useful if you pick Underground. I'm not that familiar with the shaman and terrain archetypes, although in general the former seem overspecialized and the latter seem okay.

The druid domains are pretty bad, so unless you're using an archetype to get something special, go with an animal companion. There are lots of viable options: from an optimization standpoint I suggest the big cat, while from an awesomization standpoint I suggest the GIANT SCORPION

There are plenty of decent non-core spells of course, but none so cool that you absolutely need to see them. Not a lot of druid-specific feats that I can think of either.
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Unread 29th of August, 2011, 20:26
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Ok. So. Cavaliers gain an animal compainion like a druid, and among the various benefits they get +4 to Handle Animal with the companion. I'm intending to have a Cha of at least 14, so 1+3+2+4 at +10. Handling an animal is DC 10, and DC 12 if it's wounded.
So. What prevents me from staying unmounted during combat, and directing the wolf to attack things and keep them at a distance, while I move around, flank things, and so on? As long as I stay adjacent to the wolf, there's only three squares that can't be attacked, and I can just take a five foot step away. If the enemy closes, they'll be in range of the wolf.
This seems better than constant Ride checks at +5.

Oh and hey maybe I could switch weapons to a big scythe oh fuck me.
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  #12  
Unread 29th of August, 2011, 21:36
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“ Originally Posted by zachol # Not to be an ass, but this organized play thing seems to strongly forbid house rules along those lines. I would certainly allow it, but I'm a very loose sort of DM. Instead of, you know, a faceless organization intent on making sure everyone follows the rules exactly. ”
No, I wasn't asking for a house rule. In fact, I've pretty much already come to grips with how it works. I'm just pointing out what appears to be a major oversight.

“ It is a pretty dumb oversight though you should email them or something. Also in general a lot of these eastern weapons being exotic is a little strange. Especially a bo staff (seriously that's not just a quarterstaff? wtf?). ”
Exactly.

“ Can someone with more experience give their impressions on how effective I could be focusing on a reach-only weapon? I'm sort of imagining this dude on a horse with a poleaxe or something. ”
I don't know about in Pathfinder, but I played a dwarf fighter with a halberd for a whole campaign, and it wasn't really hard at all. It involved a lot of 5 foot steps and readied actions, but it was quite fun.

“ Originally Posted by LeadPal # The saddest part? The temple sword is better than every monk weapon in Ultimate Combat except the sansetsukon.

It sucks and I'm hoping for errata, but for now let's try to overlook it.
”
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought as well.

“ Note that PFS is capped at level 12. ”
I read that, and yet somehow I also forgot. So that bears a second look at monk 12 to see what I'm missing.


Also - I'm heading back to my place today, hopefully to a house that has power and no damage. If I've got power, you'll know by tonight...
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  #13  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 04:58
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Thanks for the advice, LP - I'll look into those. Just saw that they reduced the effectiveness of druid summons, so I'm not sure if it's really worthwhile to go that route. Hm... animal companions are less effective as well - so far I thought they'd only fixed wild shape. Ah well, I'll look at it more closely these days.

We are starting at level 1, right?
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Unread 30th of August, 2011, 05:07
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“ Originally Posted by Tashalar # We are starting at level 1, right? ”
Yup.
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Unread 30th of August, 2011, 05:51
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I'm almost done my Flowing Monk. Just have to purchase supplies. Usually it's hard to stay under 150GP, but with monks, it's actually kind of hard to purchase up to the limit without buying a bunch of little crap.
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  #16  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 15:11
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Thinking of going barbarian instead. Barbarian/sorcerer and into dragon disciple. Wanted to play this character twice before and twice the game didn't really get going (both started out at higher level though).

Barbarian 1 for starters it would be. Simple and straight-forward.
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Unread 30th of August, 2011, 15:16
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Oh shit I completely missed this. Still got room or are you full?
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  #18  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 15:24
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NP, go ahead and make a character.
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  #19  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 16:19
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I think I'm going to play a Soulknife, if that's okay.

Actually wait, I found it in the pathfinder SRD easily enough, but is it legal for Pathfinder Society?

The line in the pdf you had us download reads "Additional class and race options from resources like... are generally available with no or few alterations, as well".

Last edited by Linklegacy77; 30th of August, 2011 at 16:40.
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Unread 30th of August, 2011, 16:37
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No, it's 3rd party.
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  #21  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 16:42
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Bah, that's lame, the pathfinder soulknife looked so cool.

Alright, so I'm looking at a fighter/sorcerer/arcane archer then .

... That's legal right?

Last edited by Linklegacy77; 30th of August, 2011 at 16:50.
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  #22  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 16:49
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Yeah, it's too bad. Apparently if Paizo ever does psionics officially, it won't even resemble 3.5, partly because Dreamscarred Press has that market cornered. Or so I've heard.
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  #23  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 20:06
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Where should we post the characters for approval?
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  #24  
Unread 30th of August, 2011, 22:06
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And in what kind of format?

And tips for barbarian, sorcerer, dragon discipile from the new stuff, LP? I know my way around Core well, but other than that...
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Unread 30th of August, 2011, 22:36
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Given that Tash is going barbarian, I'm definitely going to go magus (and probably bladebound at that).
And Crunch(!):


Name: Padryc Dardannal
Race: Human
Class: Magus (Bladebound) 1
Favored Class: Magus
Faction: Taldor
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Height/Weight: 6’1”/ 155 lbs
Pathfinder ID: # 36028-2


Str: 13 (+1)
Dex: 17(+3)
Con: 13 (+1)
Int: 15 (+2)
Wis: 10(+0)
Cha: 10(+0)

Hit Points
Total: 10 (8 from class +1 from Con+ 1 favored class)
Current: 10
Temporary:

Saves
Fort +3 (2+1Con)
Ref +3 (0+3Dex)
Will +2 (2+0Wis)

Initiative
+3

BAB +0
Melee +1 (+3 with Finesse)
Ranged +3
CMB +1
CMD +14

Weapons
Weapon.........................WAB.....Damage..... .......Crit.......................Range
Rapier…….......................[+3]…....[1d6+1]..........[18-20/x2]..............[NA]
Light Mace………..............[+3]…......[1d6+1]........[ x2].......................[NA]

AC: 17 = 10 + 4 (Armour) + 3(Dex) + 0(Shield) +0(misc)
vs. Touch = 13
Flat Footed = 14
Armour Penalty = -2
Spell Failure = 20%

Languages:
Common
Elven
Orc

Feats:
Combat Expertise
Weapon Finesse

Skills
Tot - Name....................................Stat[ranks+mod+misc]
+1 - Acrobatics...............................DEX [ 0 + 3 -2 armor]
+2 – Appraise................................INT [ 0 + 2 + 0 trained]
+ 0 - Bluff....................................CHA [ 0.0 +0 + 0]
-1 – Climb*.....................................STR [ 0 + 1 -2 armor]
+ 0 - Craft*...................................INT [0 + 2 + 0 trained]
+ 0 - Diplomacy..............................CHA [ 0 +0 + 0]
+ 2 - Disable Device........................INT [ 0 + 2 + 0 trained]
+ 0 - Disguise................................CHA [ 0 + 0 + 0]
+1 - Escape Artist..........................DEX [ 0 + 3 – 2 armor]
+1 – Fly*......................................DEX [ 0 + 3 – 2 armor]
+0 Heal........................................WIS [0 + 0 + 0 trained]
+ 4 – Intimidate*............................CHA [ 1 +0 + 3 trained]
+6 - Knowledge (Arcana)*................INT [ 1+2+3 training]
+0 - Knowledge (Dungeoneering)*......INT [ 0+0+0 trained]
+ 0 - Knowledge (Planes)*................INT [ 1 + 2 + 3 trained]
-- – Linguistics...............................INT [ 0 + 0 + 0]
+ 0 - Perception.............................WIS [ 0 + 0 + 0 trained]
+ 4 – Profession*............................WIS [ 1 + 0 + 3 trained]
+1 – Ride*.....................................DEX [ 0 + 3 - 2 armor]
+ 0 - Sense Motive..........................WIS [ 0 + 0 + 0]
+ 6 – Spellcraft*.............................INT [ 1 + 2 + 3 trained]
+3 - Stealth..................................DEX [ 0 + 3+0 ]
+ 0 - Survival.................................WIS [ 0 + 0 + 0]
-1 – Swim*....................................STR [ 0 + 1 -2 armor]
+ 0 - Use Magic Device*..................CHA [ 0 + 0 + 0 trained]
* Denotes a class skill
Total skill points spent: 5

Weapons
Proficient with simple and martial weapons

Armour
Proficient with light armor
Chain Shirt (+4 AC; +4 Dex; -2 Armor Check Penalty; Speed 30’)

Gear
Name Weight
Rapier 2
chain shirt 25
light mace 6
backpack 2
Bedroll 5
Flask 1.5
Lamp, common 1
2 inkpens -
Ink (1 oz. vial) -
2 pints of oil 1
Waterskin 4
Signet Ring -
Flint and Steel -

Total weight: 47.5

Money
Gp: 7
Sp: 3
Cp:7


Racial Features
+2 to one attribute (Dex)
Bonus Feat at 1st level
Skilled (extra skill point at each level)

Class Features
Spells (lvl 1: 2 per day)
Cantrips
Arcane Pool (3)
Spell Combat
Favored Class: Magus (extra hit point at lvl 1)

Traits
Fencer (+1 on attacks of opportunity with daggers, swords and the like)
Expert Duelist (+1 trait bonus to AC so long as adjacent to a single foe)

Known Spells
Cantrips
All
Level 1
Magic Missile
Burning Hands
Shocking Grasp
Shield
Expeditious Retreat
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Last edited by Darius; 31st of August, 2011 at 01:56.
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