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  #1  
Unread 25th of May, 2011, 01:28
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Live Studio Audience (XCrawl Visitors)

There are no audience stands so I'll post here! Is it spoiler-y to ask what effects these mugging checks are having? I presume they are trying to win the favour of the audience? And that will manifest in something within the dungeon?

Enquiring minds wish to know.
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  #2  
Unread 25th of May, 2011, 01:30
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I think we should have an audience thread. Probably it won't be visited often, but people like BRR could throw in nasty comments or nifty cheers if they feel like them.

I remember having something of the like the gladiator's tournament here.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 01:33
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I'll start an audience thread. I have one in RHoD.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 02:01
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To answer BRR's question, those checks are part of the points system for scoring a crawl. Since teams don't compete concurrently, there has to be a way to add up points to determine the Crawl's winner. The more positive the crowd is, the more points that team gets at the end of the crawl.

Beyond that, it can also influence a Dungeon Judge (in this case the DJ is Phantom, who is notorious for bending rules a bit) to play a bit more aggressively. Like gladiatorial combats with spectators determining fates of downed gladiators, a Crawl can have a sort of similar effect. Generally crowds want to see bloodshed, but not watch Crawlers die. But that really depends on how they feel about the Crawl participants in general. DJ's sort of have to follow the will of the crowd and sort of influence that will by manipulating specific encounters.

In this case, not to get too detailed, the crowd was initially neutral (IGNITION is a new team with only one really familiar face in the group - Burn Ward) and one failure didn't impact that much. There was a second failure, but was a near-miss so it didn't impact the crowd much either. The success was a good one (beat the DC by more than 5 but less than 10) and shifted the crowd to the positive one notch, but the next failure was bad (missed the DC by more than 10) and has the possibility of dropping the crowd to negative.

In addition to that, the characters have Fame outside of a Crawl (although we're not really worried about effects outside a Crawl) and five successful grandstanding or mugging checks increase Fame by one point. That grants them bonuses to earned money, sponsorship opportunities, and possible free gear, etc. I don't know what you watch for sports, but think about the difference in fame between someone like a Tiger Woods and some new guy who just qualified for the PGA.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 02:03
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Ah, that's pretty cool.

So you can a famous crawler with his own line of magical longswords. Or line of horrible electric cooking appliances owned by students across the world.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 02:07
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In this case, not to get too detailed, the crowd was initially neutral (IGNITION is a new team with only one really familiar face in the group - Burn Ward) and one failure didn't impact that much. There was a second failure, but was a near-miss so it didn't impact the crowd much either. The success was a good one (beat the DC by more than 5 but less than 10) and shifted the crowd to the positive one notch, but the next failure was bad (missed the DC by more than 10) and has the possibility of dropping the crowd to negative.
I'm not sure if I understand the sequence - but maybe that's because I forgot to add 'aid' to Tripster's mugging attempt. I just edited it in. You revealed earlier that the DC is 21 and Tripster wouldn't try on his own with a mod of -1. So... hopefully the situation is not as bad as it sounded just now.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 02:24
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Think of it kind of like what 4E did for the Skill Challenges. The first Failure was a Grandstanding (mostly because I effed up and used the wrong skill), and didn't have an effect. The second was by less than 5 and didn't have an effect. The next check beat the DC by 7, which was more than 5 but less than 10, and moved the crowd one step - neutral* to "good-natured" (there are more steps in XCrawl than what core D&D has). The next check has failed by 10 (oops, no it hasn't. It's failed by less than 10. I was using the roll (7) and not the total result. That's what I get for taking notes and not double-checking my numbers) - with the successful aid another from zachol it's actually just failed by 6 now. Which would move the crowd back to neutral* vice average.

Failed Aid Another checks don't take away from the base rolls, so even if you really botch an Aid check, it doesn't change the result. You simply don't help the situation. Although, like you said, a natural one would be fun to have it make the situation devolve further.

*Neutral is called "Decent" in the core book, and I would use that term but I thought it was kind of ambivalent.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 02:26
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Originally Posted by BigRedRod # Ah, that's pretty cool.

So you can a famous crawler with his own line of magical longswords. Or line of horrible electric cooking appliances owned by students across the world.
Exactly. You could be Roger Federer stumping for Gillette. Or you could be that guy on infomercials.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 03:22
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That's what I get for taking notes and not double-checking my numbers) - with the successful aid another from zachol it's actually just failed by 6 now. Which would move the crowd back to neutral* vice average.
So if we get a successful aid another from Burn Ward or dabocim's character, everything would be back to good-natured.

... strictly mechanically speaking.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 03:37
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Yes. You can see why mechanically DMs keep a lot of things like this to themselves, then, huh?
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 05:01
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Well, yes, kind of.

But normally the players know about the RAW - this is an exception to the rule. I think it is more interesting for a DM to secretly set different DCs for mugging attempts instead of keeping the rules behind it secret. But we'll deal with it and if rp demands it, mechanical advantages might not be 'used'.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 06:39
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Ah, but I can't set the DC's for mugging, can I? The DC is always 21. I think that's a bit absurd, personally, since the DC of audiences are variable. But that's supposedly the difference between talking to a camera and talking to live audience people. I don't really buy it as being that different.

Also, the rules aren't ones I've made up, if you're wondering. They're actual RAW.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 06:47
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DC 21 is kind of disheartening. Especially when your skill modifier is -1.
Although Val's managed her two aid another checks well enough.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Mercutio # Ah, but I can't set the DC's for mugging, can I?
What? Of course you can.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 09:03
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I *could* change the rules, but the book clearly says the DC for Mugging is always 21.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 09:11
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It feels like it should be an opposed skill check against whoever's interviewing you.
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Unread 25th of May, 2011, 09:37
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Well, Mugging is specifically about playing to the camera (and the audience which is watching).
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Unread 26th of May, 2011, 08:03
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Originally Posted by Mercutio # I *could* change the rules, but the book clearly says the DC for Mugging is always 21.
Details. You yourself called the rule absurd. I for one would not object if you houseruled it.
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Unread 26th of May, 2011, 08:10
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I may just do that. The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it seems. I think Grandstanding and Mugging should just be combined into one skill and have a variable DC based on the crowd's disposition, which is subject to change from things other than the simple Grandstanding checks.
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Unread 26th of May, 2011, 08:26
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I didn't even realize they were separate skills until I looked at the other character sheets.
Then re-read the book and saw, yep, separate. That's so dumb. Like intuit direction dumb.
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  #21  
Unread 26th of May, 2011, 13:05
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Like Wilderness Lore dumb.

Oh wait, same exact joke. Nvm, carry on.
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  #22  
Unread 27th of May, 2011, 16:15
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For the record, I second (third? fourth?) a decision to combine the skills based purely on it making more sense mechanically speaking. It wouldn't really affect my character much but it does just seem dumb to me even from a roleplaying standpoint. To me your playing to the audience either way and there is a camera present either way... so, um, whats the difference again?

Like....innuendo dumb.
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Unread 27th of May, 2011, 16:21
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Like scrying dumb.

I think Burn would be the only character who would have to reallocate skill points after this.
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Unread 27th of May, 2011, 16:52
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Like non-weapon proficiencies dumb.

Actually, I hadn't picked which type of perform Razor Charlie had yet because of the whole mugging/grandstanding thing. I was hoping to find time to read up on it to make sure I understood how silly it was and hope someone else brought it up. In short, my plan worked apparently.
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Unread 27th of May, 2011, 23:25
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In-your-endo dumb...
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