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elmer_jok 20th of August, 2009 08:15

OOC Cackling
Here we are up and running. I will start posting the most relevant information first and let ya'll get started on making your characters. I'll add the background information too.

First thing is first though... Allowed Races and Classes will be posted in the Resources section.

Also, please do not post in any of the subforums yet, even your characters until I post the summary of what I want to see in there.

Prince Yami 20th of August, 2009 10:01

First post! Though it does have a purpose beyond that. Any word yet on weather you'll be allowing arcane power feats and such?

elmer_jok 20th of August, 2009 10:15

Yes I just updated what books will be available in the resources subforum.

elmer_jok 20th of August, 2009 10:21

So let's hear a sound off again of what everyone would like to play so I can get a feel for what type of freaks we'll be dealing with.

Prince Yami 20th of August, 2009 10:28

Half-Orc Wizard

elmer_jok 20th of August, 2009 10:33

Freak #1: Half-Orc Wizard played by Prince Yami. Common race. Common class.

Leaves 3 uncommon races and 3 uncommon classes left to choose from for the other players.

Scythe 20th of August, 2009 13:48

I'm thinking a religious type character, as I mentioned in the acquisition thread... so I'm opting for either a loyal good Cleric or Paladin, and for a race... either Dwarf or Elf, I suppose...

Personally, I wouldn't mind playing a Human either, if nobody else wants too. And if somebody wants to platy a specific role (striker, defender, etc) as for class choice, I'd be happy to take it's opposite for my character.
I'll be posting some background information in a day or two (or until class/race is decided for the human aspect)

My selection of books and or feats are limited to the core books. However, a friend of mine has a copy of the setting book, so I might be able to have access to it, temporarily, eventually.

A quick question before signing off... are regional backgrounds free, or do we need to spend a feat to acquire it's benefits?

Thanks again for a spot in your game.


FatmanVonBlubberfellow 20th of August, 2009 14:41

Dragonborn Sorcerer.

...Critical fumble rule? Urgh. That... really doesn't make me want to cast any AoE spells, because that's basically like saying "I want to fumble every single turn for the rest of the game!"

Well, we'll see.

Viro 20th of August, 2009 16:00

Ugh. Fumbles and critical success/failures?

I agree with FMVBF - the rule totally decimates any reason to use area attacks, *especially* for a melee character.

And for skills, do you really believe that a level 20 character, trained in athletics, is likely to *fail* to climb over a DC 10 check (ie, free climbing a rope under normal conditions)?
Or will 5% of the time he attempts to climb he falls tumbling to the ground?

D&D 3.5 had no critical skill success/failure for a reason. And most houserules for it instead gave a +/- 5 or 10 on rolls of 20 or 1, instead of calling it "automatic". You were still limited, but if you had your level 20 character with 23 ranks in climb and a +3 stat bonus, you still could never fail any check of lower than DC 18 (with the -10 rule).

With the house rules you have posted, I will NOT play my Avenger idea.

So slot me down for a Human Bard, though I'm reconsidering playing altogether atm (due to house rules that are counter to the positive changes D&D has taken IMHO). I'll have a final decision within 24 hours.

BigRedRod 20th of August, 2009 19:04

I don't like the critical success/failure or fumble rules either. Best way to do is give a reroll on a 1 or 20 with -/+20 mod, if you really want some kind of constant small chance of failure/success in face of everything. And even then I think it's trying to bend something in a way which 4th edition doesn't like to be bent.

Thinking of some kind of local resident botanist type. Although not entirely sure on class or race. I always seem to play humans so I'm trying to lean away from that. Given how flexible class seems for my concept, I'll have a see what makes most sense in terms of role.

FatmanVonBlubberfellow 21st of August, 2009 00:44

We could use a Defender, I think, so if that fits with what you're looking at it would be nice.

I wouldn't say it's that bad. I don't like critical fumble rules because they add additional ways for the players to screw up and die (or more accurately, they add more ways for everyone to screw up and die, but it's irrelevant if it happens to monsters.) Even as a sorcerer, though, it's not enough to drive me away from the game, it's just going to be one of those things where I'm going to really, really regret using Close Blasts of any kind.

BigRedRod 21st of August, 2009 01:42

Hmmm. Warden makes sense then. Maybe a gnome. Or an Eladrin.

Viro 21st of August, 2009 12:20

I'll stick in - please do reconsider the critical fumble rule though. When it comes to a single chance of totally failing, it hurts the PCs far more than the monsters.

Scythe 21st of August, 2009 13:32

I personally don't see where the problem is with the fumble rule; sure, it's a negative for the players, but it's not that bad. You'd probably fail the natural one roll anyways, so having your turn end immediately doesn't really change anything (for attacks) and you still get to resolve your AoE.

A skilled woodcutter can easily, at some time, give off a bad swing and hurt his arm. Even the most skilled craftsman can make mistakes. Errors are part of human nature.

And on a side note, my friend lent me his Forgotten Realms books, and Martial/Arcane power, so I'll have a look at those...

FatmanVonBlubberfellow 21st of August, 2009 15:13


Originally Posted by Scythe (Post 352378)
I personally don't see where the problem is with the fumble rule; sure, it's a negative for the players, but it's not that bad. You'd probably fail the natural one roll anyways, so having your turn end immediately doesn't really change anything (for attacks) and you still get to resolve your AoE.

There's a significant difference between missing an attack and ending your turn. For melee characters, yes, it's largely irrelevant; the problem is for people who use AoE attacks, especially close blasts; a one on any of the rolls pins them in place (as opposed to having the option of shifting or moving away to try and get out of range of attacks of the survivors.) It also means that anyone can be denied the chance to use their Action Point by virtue of a poor roll, and can lead to unhappy situations where a monster is at 1 HP and you hit him on a 2+ and have an AP saved up, so he's guaranteed to go down... unless you roll a fumble, in which case he gets to do some more damage to the party. For my character personally, it also means that my breath weapon becomes much less useful (and at later levels actively harmful), since there's something like a 35% chance I'll lose the rest of my turn when I jump in near some guys to blast them.

In short, it doesn't add any fun to the game and takes a lot of options away from players based on something they have no control over and cannot plan for. It also punishes some classes more heavily than others (invoker/wizard/druid/sorcerer/warlock are the hardest hit) and narratively doesn't make any sense; why, exactly, is the wizard so dumb he spends almost half his turns standing there with his thumb up his ***? Because he makes more attack rolls, that's why. 4E's mechanics/reality connection is tenuous at best, but I find it hard to rationalize the effects of critical fumbles.

With all that said, I don't mean to come off as being really bitchy about it. It's a house rule, I'll live with it, I just wanted to explain why I felt as I did on the subject.

Prince Yami 21st of August, 2009 17:42

I agree. a natural 1 is already an automatic miss/fail in most cases. It's completely unnecessary to add more penalties. I considered writing a similar house rule actually, but while something similar would have worked with 3.5 it didn't mesh so well with 4, one of the biggest, though not only, reason being action points. A critical fumble defeats one of the primary reasons for having action points in the first place. so I ultimately abandoned it.

BigRedRod 21st of August, 2009 22:35

Oddly, I don't have a copy of PHB2 at work, so my sheet is mostly placeholders for the moment.

Scythe 22nd of August, 2009 01:41

What roles occupy the Bard and Warden class?

I'm thinking Dwarf Cleric, if there isn't already a Leader role in our group of merry adventurers (then I'll probably be a Paladin for sure). I'm still unsure of what build to base my cleric though... if we seem to have a few melee fighters, I'll make a battle cleric... if the case seems to be the opposite, I'll make my heal bitch.

EDIT: Bard is a leader? Funny... EJ, does having two leader type characters in the same party bad or anything? A paladin then seems to be a good choice, though race is still oblivious to me... maybe DragonBorn...?


Viro 22nd of August, 2009 05:52

Bard = Leader
Warden = Defender

2 Leaders and 2 Defenders are both viable. And if we have a 6th person total, having a double up of either of those roles, and 2 strikers would be optimal.

Prince Yami 23rd of August, 2009 09:59

You said characters start at level 2 right?

Viro 24th of August, 2009 15:47


Originally Posted by Prince Yami (Post 352479)
You said characters start at level 2 right?


BigRedRod 24th of August, 2009 17:44

Ah, I'd forgotten that. I was just looking at the character creation rules thread.

Hopefully it'll all happen this evening.

elmer_jok 25th of August, 2009 11:48

I apologize for my delay in responding to you all. Those that haven't seen me mention it, I work doubles all weekend and currently have the weekedays free. Some weekends I cannot post, even from my phone, and this will be my most inactive time. I can usually make up for this by an obsessive amount of posting monday thru thursday though. Even if I do post on the weekends it will usually be just answering questions from the OOC chat and not actual updates.

That all being said, let me sift through the last four days of questions and comments and make some decisions, get my backup pc booted up and gather my books and thinking cap. I will have some answers this evening maybe, tomarrow at the latest.

Stringbean2142 25th of August, 2009 14:08

Sorry it took a bit for me to post here, mates. I was waiting for a yes/no on whether I was in or just the first alternate. Since elmer's let me in, it sounds like we'll have six total.

So, while I bounced back and forth between human and genasi, in the end I settled on a human warlock. That gives us the 2nd striker to compliment 2 defenders, our paladin has some healing ability, and our sorcerer has a bit of controller ability. I think we're covered as far as roles are concerned.

For my background, I'm leaning towards a fey pact warlock and a local. I've been preparing a Changeling one-shot, so the idea of being pulled into the world of the fey has been pretty heavy on my mind the last few weeks. So my character (name still brewing) was "befriended" as a child by a natural spirit. As she grew, she began listening to the spirit more and more until one stupid, silly day she entrapped herself. The spirit rides shotgun in her now, as her familiar maybe? Her gaining levels and power could be roleplayed as either her gaining control over her situation, or her losing control and the spirit stepping in to assert more authority. And the relationship between woman and spirit might be adversarial or played for a bit of humor and lightness; I'm still working on that.

It's a work in progress, but I should have her rounded out in three days, at the outside. I have a post in another game to finish off first, and then I'll focus on completing her.

BigRedRod 25th of August, 2009 17:47

I suppose I should clarify whether it'd be possible to be a local with a nice house featuring extensive plant life and a library. From the off. It's a bit cheeky considering starting gold, so perhaps we could find a way to have it all suddenly lost which throws him into the need to find employment.

Also, I should do my sheet.

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