What are you talking about now? (OOC)

[Chris Chandler]

So, this is it! Welcome to Campaign everyone! I'll be putting up campaign specific information in the near future, but until then, have a good time getting familiar with one another.

This is going to be great!

[LadyGlutter]

:)

HOORAY!!!!!!

I have no idea what I'm gonna play, but now I know I'm a traveller finding myself on the scorched world of Athas!

[LightBringer]

Athas?!? I thought....oops nevermind. :)

Like LadyGlutter, I'm still debating what type of character I'm going to be playing. I'm just rather excited to play my first Epicly-Epic adventure. :cool:

[Doombot]

Impudent fools! You thought you could escape Doom's notice? Folly!

Legions of Murderbots are being dispatched to your locations, as well of the locations of your loved ones! Doom shall rule this 'Athas' with a nuclear-powered, steel-gauntleted fist! No one is more epic than DOOM!

[MadDogMaddux]

Sweet! Where the heck is Athas? What world are we in again? :P

[Chris Chandler]

Hey, great to see everyone!

Okay, to be quite frank I'm a little nervous about this endeavor. I like each of you as players (obviously), and have been giving myself a bit of a psyche out, about things. It's just new campaign flutters, I'm sure.

Okay, now to it. If you aren't familiar with Athas, or Dark Sun, don't sweat it. The way I see it, this place is going to simply be the starting point, not necessarily the end-all. For the curious, though, visit the keepers of Athasian lore (http://www.athas.org/). It's not required reading, but it can give some insight for if you want to play someone from the planet.

To that end, you folks are epic, which means that you either have the personal means, or know someone who has the means, of getting you from point A to point B, wherever that might be. That means that even though the backdrop is Athas, you most definitely are not limited in your goals with character creation.

Some starting Guidelines:

Character rolling: Geeze, you're epic, right, roll to taste and tell me the result. I'm expecting high power, so if, after you have rolled, your point-buy total is lower than... 40, try again. Seriously, I'm easy. I expect a maxed "primary stat" and some really good other stats. I mean, you sure didn't become epic by that circlet of persuasion...

Or did you?

Classes, Prestige classes, skills and feats are wide open, but please stick to WOTC stuff. I have trouble getting access to 3rd-party cra... products, and, honestly, the sprawl is bad enough with what our friends from Renton have provided us. Any 3.5 or non-replaced 3.0 is acceptable, but run stuff by me first before you set your heart on something. Oh, and go ahead and give me a vote for starting level. If you folks don't care, we'll stay at the shallow end of the pool, at level 25.

Equipment will be by the book(s), which means you have a lot of choices. Again, lemme know what you are considering, so I have some idea. If you want to dive into custom items, then naturally we'll be working together.

A note on alignment, et al. It's a shoehorned contrivance that keeps you from playing that bardic monk, but it's still there. I personally have always functioned better when I get to play the bad guys. I humbly request that the party lean toward the good side.

Get to know one another. I think that the best way to have a great party is for the players to have a good rapport. I'm not saying that you have to have a "cohesive 4-character party" AT ALL. I want you to play what you want. The only thing that I would like to see, honestly, is that you, as players, have a decent handle on each other. No, I don't want to see interrelated backstories, I said players. Take some time out before we get to crunching and have a drink, so to speak.

I'll start things off:

http://home.nc.rr.com/tuco/looney/acme/acme.html

I believe that anything beginning with "jet" or "rocket" gets my vote, thought I do love the do-it-yourself-tornado kit.

[Doombot]

I'm new to epic levels myself, so this'll be a learning experience. I'm assuming that the SRD has enough epic level material for me to know roughly what I'm doing?

Are monstrous races ok? I've been considering playing a grappling-based character/meat shield, so of course something big with long arms would suit me there. Either that, or an Epically Extrapolated version of This Guy (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5921). If I went monstrous, I'd try to keep the LA down so I could squeeze more classes.

Since I'm a new face around here (except to Chris), I'll give everyone a quick low-down: I love beer and hate country music. I enjoy mocking people openly, although I've been told that I'm a really nice guy. Don't worry though, I'm working on that last one, and I'll try to not let it affect The Game. ;)

[Tashalar]

Doom's just a pink fluffy bunny despite what he says. Don't take him (too) seriously. :fun:

And I'm posting that here because you ain't got no visitor's thread and someone had to 'warn' y'all. *nod* :)

[Doombot]

Bad Tashalar! 'Raus! Gehst du weg!

[Chris Chandler]

Hey, I welcome the visitors here, if only to openly mock and denigrate my players.

I like Aros a lot, Doom. It'd be interesting to continue him to an epic point.

[MadDogMaddux]

Mind if I work up a wearbear?

[LightBringer]

Thanks for the warning Tashalar, but I'm sure I can handle the Doombot, after all he's just a Doombot! :smiling:

Besides, we do have so much in common seeing as I hate beer, and love country music. See we have a great love/hate relationship. LOL

A couple other quick notes about myself, I do love Ouzo, which is far better than beer, and I enjoy working in my garden, getting my hands dirty. I also don't mind mocking, as long as those who mock, can handle being mocked.


On the game side, I have several character ideas I'm debating, but I haven't set anything in stone. A couple are characters that were created, but then got very little play time, and I hate putting a lot of sweat and tears into something that then just sits around. I'll be happy to play any of these ideas, but was waiting to get more of a group impression.

Okay I better do some work now, I'll check in later. :cool:

[Doombot]

Feel free to mock away! I've got thick skin. Most of the time. :)

Ouzo, eh? According to the wisdom of my friend, "it's like drinking candy." I'll stick with my wonderful beers, since I've already developed a taste for them, and it sounds kind of like bear. Bears are good.

Man, my little cat must be pissed today; he's dragging his sister around the apartment by her throat, and she's not happy about it.

Edit: Chris, I also really enjoy Aros, I'm just not sure what way to take him after level 20. Maybe an acquired template? Dunno.
So my thoughts right now are either Epic-Aros, or Reaping Mauler/Bear Warrior grapple-monkey. Probably troll or something similar. Comments?

[Chris Chandler]

Hmm...

Personally, I'd like to see a dire wearbear. A wearbear, and a grapple-monkey. Those sound decidedly tank-like. Both would be quite interesting. Personally I just like the RP synergy between a wearbear and a bear warrior. Very interesting, philosophically speaking!

Aros, though - there's some good stuff to take him up into 20th level (Suel Arcanamach, others), but then there are a few epic PrC options that might work, as well.

OH!

If you folks don't know about it, this is the best SRD around (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm). It does have the essence of the epic handbook, which is good, because the fluff in that book is bloody frustrating.

LB, I think that, of the three suggestions that you have had earlier, you would have the most satisfaction with Omni, or an iteration of that character. I think that Walker makes for a very good "tourist", with the same misgivings that you have. As far as Cass is concerned, I don't think you'd have the satisfaction you'd have with an Omni-type.

LG, you are right about one thing, and that is the ELH is very frustrating. We can take a look at your considerations after you get back.

Oh, yeah, LG'll be back... most likely Thursday evening.

As a note, please don't consider printed material as carved in stone, so to speak. If you come across something you like, but it isn't quite right, let me know, and we'll see what we can do about that. Case in point - the dire wearbear. That isn't in the MM/SRD, but it's easily built.

[LightBringer]

Yeah, I don't think the bounty hunter varient I was debating would go to well either. So that puts me on spell-casting duty, which is fine for me. I'll start tweaking Omni out. I may even go with the Descryer. ;)

[Chris Chandler]

Nice - I really like that PrC. That is good stuff. You can say, "have you met my friend, whose name is unpronounceable in any mortal tongue?"

The only problem you have to worry about then is when they say, "Yes, we have tea every week."

[LightBringer]

Lol, LOL , that would be realllllly screwed up!! :nervous:

[Doombot]

The original progression for Aros was to be Ftr2/Hex3/Occult Slayer5/Suel Arcanamach 10. If I took him epic, I might add the Spellwarped template for some nice, anti-magic goodies, and then maybe more fighter or some Spellsword. What are some of those epic PrCs you mentioned?

I'm really leaning more into grappler though; maybe skullcrusher ogre (MM3), or a minotaur. A mino would give me more levels to work with, so that's looking a little more favorable right now.

[LightBringer]

Methinks someone hath some pent up rage. :worry:

[Doombot]

RRRRRRAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!!

[LightBringer]

Rofl!

[Doombot]

Hey, at least it's not pent up anymore. Nothing like a tall glass of Rage-ahol!

[Chris Chandler]

Try here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicBasicsAndClasses.htm)Doom. This has a list of both goofy progressions for regular classes, plus the Epic Prestige Classes.

Epic is a good chance to play that big HD+LA monster character with little penalty, especially if you aren't going for a caster-type.

[LightBringer]

That's for sure Doombot.

I started the revamp last night, and it looks like Druid may be one of the classes I go with, and I'm thinking nothing as big as Doombot and MadDog are going for, probably just a little ol' half-elf. :smiling:

[Doombot]

Ooooh! Druids are fun! You could have some fun with Nature's Warrior, or Warshaper, or Master of Many Forms!

[Chris Chandler]

Nature's Warrior is my absolute favorite 5-class PrC, in part because my favorite class is the druid. If you want to go for a tanky role, the druid certainly has the tools.

Now my question is, do you want to still keep your spellcasting up, or do you want to just go the shapechange route. A pure druid has some very tasty options with epic feats (magical beast, gargantuan, colossal, dragon wildshape). Good, good stuff. That makes you the tank and still a powerful caster...

[LightBringer]

No, I don't think it will be a pure druid. In fact I'm pretty sure it won't.

I'll keep you posted.

[Doombot]

Hey Chris, I was wondering a couple of things: 1) Clever Wrestling, a pre-req for Reaping Mauler, requires that you be medium or small. This rules out trolls, ogres, minotaurs, etc -- basically everything I was considering for a grappler. Is there a way we can work around this? Allow it for large, and then just scale the bonuses differently?

2) Another pre-req is Improved Unarmed Strike. What about Weapon Focus: (Natural Attack) for Claws, or Bite, or something like that. I remember having to work this out with Lune for one of his old PbPs.

Currently considering Half-dragon templated Ogre as first choice for build, and minotaur as second choice.

If someone does go Druid, I request a few spell slots saved for Animal Growth, which should be able to target myself, the animal companion, the were-bear, and the shifted druid with one casting. +8 to grapple checks FTW!

[Chris Chandler]

I'll take a look at the wording of the feat this evening and see what solution we can build.

I've always thought it was needlessly complex for a creature that has natural attacks (like a dragon) to be forced to burn a precious feat in order to threaten with his "unarmed strike" (that he would never use sans monk levels). If your character has, as part of a racial makeup or a template, a natural attack, take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat as a bonus racial feat (that goes for anyone). I'd say this is fine for a lycanthrope, as well. Only pasty pink humans and elves should have to train to make their fists lethal. ;)

[LightBringer]

Ha Ha :P

[LeadPal]

If you folks don't know about it, this is the best SRD around (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm).d20SRD.org!? R-u-u-u-u-n! Save yourselves! (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html)

[Doombot]

I forget (or else you haven't brought it up yet) what you said about custom items. For example, if I wanted an item that cast, say, Giant Size (CA) on myself 3-4 times per day, I could have that made for the appropriate price, right?

[Chris Chandler]

I like Sovelior's page alright; choose your poison, folks.

We can put something like that, Doom. My rule is that for custom items, we work together on it.

Okay, we're getting alot of the crunchy started, which is good. The other players probably won't need this next bit, because we haven't worked out the ins and outs of character interaction - it'd be pretty hard to do so right now anyways. While you are building your character mechanically, think about backstory as well. I'm not asking you to give a detailed account of just how you met each level to this point, but I would like a little personal history. For now, if you even get to that point, just PM me that information. I'm not looking for that any time soon, either.

Oh, the funniest thing I saw today: One of these:

http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/10/24/green-basics-insight-side.jpg

with a trailer hitch.

[MadDogMaddux]

Just a heads up to all, my werebear will be a primarily a skill oriented character. Mostly a combination of Scout and Ranger. I'm tweaking it, but those are my fav. characters anyhow.

And that means he'll have an animal companion, naturally. Did someone say animal growth? :P

[MadDogMaddux]

Hey, great to see everyone!

Get to know one another. I think that the best way to have a great party is for the players to have a good rapport. I'm not saying that you have to have a "cohesive 4-character party" AT ALL. I want you to play what you want. The only thing that I would like to see, honestly, is that you, as players, have a decent handle on each other.


Let's see, I've been in a game with LG and LB for the last few years...(holy cow....YEARS?!!! ) But I'm sure there's stuff they don't know. Here's some juicy tidbits for all.

First and foremost, I'm recently married, here's a picture of me and my beautiful wife, Amanda (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa88/MadDogMaddux/JAcake.jpg)

We've been married just over 7 months. We live in St. Louis Missouri, we live downtown in a loft. I work as a guide (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa88/MadDogMaddux/JBA_Bike.jpg) downtown, which basically means I get paid to ride a bike and be friendly and helpful. And I get benefits! :cool:

Admittedly, that's not why we MOVED to St. Louis - I'm still working on some non-clunky terminology that communicates well, but basically we're followers of Jesus and have moved to the downtown area to be part of a community that invites other people to follow Jesus as well. Yes, there are simpler terms for that, I realize, but I'm avoiding them on purpose. :P

Gaming wise I cut my teeth on Battletech, which I've played since '92. For the last several years I worked as a freelance demo agent for them, and have only recently quit due to lack of time, what with moving and getting married.

I've been playing DnD for only a few years - in a few weeks I'm starting a game (which I'm DMing AAAUUUGGHH!!!!) on Sunday nights, should be interesting as my first go at DMing (AAAAUUUGGHHH!!!!) The book which made DnD come alive for me was Complete Adventurer, and ever since I laid eyes on the scout class, I've loved it.

The character I'm hoping to play here is a character I've been trying to work into a game for years and years, and never get the chance to play. 2wice the PbP game was cancelled, then I made him up for RPGA - but moved away from that gaming group before I could play him, and heck, I even tried to create him in DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) but Rangers suck in that game. :P

Oh, and I've also played Shadowrun. :P

I just recently finished reading the first 4 books in the John Flanagan series "Rangers Apprentice" and highly reccomend them.

My favorite webcomics are Order of the Stick, Megatokyo, Erfworld, Goblins, and Chainmail Bikini (which I was sad to see died). Oh and the regular comics on Red Vs. Blue which are sort of a guilty pleasure. :P

Top 4 Movies:
Princess Bride
We Were Soldiers
Fiddler on a Roof
Cinderella Man


I drive a Honda Prelude, and always have. Though I'm really tempted by the 2009 Pontiac Solstice Coupe....good thing I have no money :P


Eh, any more and I'd be babbling. Or am I babbling already? Do'h! my bad. :P

[LadyGlutter]

OH ME GEE, YOU GUYS!

I'm back! You guys wrote lots. Yay, that's good for when I get back in the swing, but I'll be catching up for a bit this morning.

Only comments to what I have managed to read so far: I'll stick with my wine spritzers and Cranberry seabreezes. And everyone knows the only music worth listening to is Light Jazz.

And, there's your warning. I can be very scary. :fun:

For real, ouzo and beer are both vile, evil substances. Gimme tequila please. And either embracing or condemning a whole genre of music wholesale is both shortsighted and closeminded.

[LightBringer]

Congrats on the marriage MadDog. I'm working on my 21st year of marital bliss as we speak. :cool:

The Scout is one of my favorite classes as well. In fact I was debating playing my Scout varient for this game, but decided to go towards the spellcasting route. Actually I'm having all kinds of crazy thoughts about the way I want to go. I hope I've settled on a path by Monday.

[MadDogMaddux]

OH ME GEE, YOU GUYS!
For real, ouzo and beer are both vile, evil substances. Gimme tequila please. And either embracing or condemning a whole genre of music wholesale is both shortsighted and closeminded.



One of the benefits of moving to St. Louis was the numerous live jazz venues to be frequented. LOL

Never tried Ouzo - quite a fan of good wine and beer though. I cut my teeth on wine while working at an Italian restaurant, heh.

[MadDogMaddux]

Congrats on the marriage MadDog. I'm working on my 21st year of marital bliss as we speak. :cool:

The Scout is one of my favorite classes as well. In fact I was debating playing my Scout varient for this game, but decided to go towards the spellcasting route. Actually I'm having all kinds of crazy thoughts about the way I want to go. I hope I've settled on a path by Monday.



21 years ey? That's awesome!

[Chris Chandler]

Now, see, that's an interesting bio (and a lovely wedding photo). Thanks Maddog! I have not played battletech in years, but it was a great game.

Don't worry, LG, there's no catch-up. Ideas are being tossed about wildly, uncontrollably! I like the direction of the conversation, so far. Jump in with both feet - we'll all catch you! (right guys... right, Doom? I said catch, not engulf in flame.)

Okay, for today's installment of "what to expect", you've already heard that I prefer to play the bad guys (generally, though this (http://home.flash.net/%7Ebrenfrow/dd1/reverse.jpg)rocked hard), but I also prefer to not have fight after relentless fight. I like mysteries, intrigues, and the like, but I have, unfortunately, had mixed results with "wheels within wheels" campaigns on PbP. There are definite limitations that the medium has, limitations that we all recognize, and I'd like for all of us to be aware and on the same page about just how we're going to present communication (IC and OOC) within the game. I want your feedback, suggestions, ect., and I'll put up some of my thoughts to get things started.


I think that banter in the In-Character thread creates more of a tabletop atmosphere, that is, I encourage it.
I hate meta. I know that we are playing pretend with nerd-rules, but I would much rather see a portrayal of character, not of mechanics. The OOC should serve as a repository of rules-related questions, etc. I have the Campaign information section for particularly rules-heavy discussions, say, for instance, a particular reason why a curse tied to the moon on one planet still affects the afflicted in an entirely different crystal sphere.
Likewise, stating, flat-out, cruchy skills/abilities/etc. in character really shatters the suspension of disbelief. I think all of us have shown that we can present a well-written means of conveying mechanical intent without saying, "I'm disabling device on what appears to be trapped average lock". Honestly, I feel bad even saying it, because that's one of the reasons you guys are all here. You like the story as much (or more) as I do.
On a related note, I, as a DM, rarely have one key for one door. If you out think me on a challenge, good job! Likewise, don't think that you have to have a particular toolset in order to succeed. For example, if the group doesn't have someone who is a brilliant locksmith, that doesn't mean that every locked door is a bar that either may never be passed, or has to be blown up. In other words, I'll keep your strengths, weaknesses, and creative angles in mind when providing challenges*. Don't make a character thinking that there is a "right answer" in mind. Make the character you want.


---
Except for when it comes to healing. 'Cause I mean, come on. That acid ain't gonna remove itself, right LB? Bwa ha ha. Oh, I'm so funny. He died because of acid. Oh, stop it!

[Chris Chandler]

21 years ey? That's awesome!

Yeah, LB is ancient. He remembers when D&D didn't even come with an "&D". It was just "Dungeons", and he liked it that way. You whippersnappers and your fancy "feats". Back in his day, Dwarf was a class by gum!

Stay off his lawn. No really, he just put some nice bermuda in.

[LadyGlutter]

Ouzo tastes like black licorice. Or green Nyquil. Take your pick. Like I said, Vile.

Good wine is very nice but also expensive. And I like some jazz, though I'd prefer the bluesy non light variety. I love music in general, actually, far too much to discriminate based on genre. 'Salright, I'm closeminded and shortsighted about other things. ;) For example, the people I know who prefer light jazz to anything else, and drink wine spritzers and cranberry seabreezes scare me. :P

And very nice pics, esp of the wedding, Maddog. :)

I don't know what I oughta say about myself as introduction really.

Except I guess we may as well let you know I'm married to the GM (11 years now). He was my first DM, so If that's a problem speak now or forever hold your peace. ;)

[LightBringer]

Oh so funny Mr GM. I'll remember that shot, and yes the grass is nice. :P

I got locked up on the photos, but I'll try again later.

Uozo is oh sooooooo good. You just can't handle it. Although Tequila is pretty damn good as well. :nod:

See what happens when those goofy guys get ahold of a impressionable young mind, and she's none the wiser 11 years later. ;)

[Doombot]

I said catch, not engulf in flame.Awwwww. *puts down flamethrower*

Alright, I suppose I should give a little background on myself. I'm a starving college student (although only for one more semester) with an inclination towards veterinary medicine. I am deeply in love with high-quality beer, and I have a sense of humor which tends towards sarcasm and inappropriate comments, as Chris can attest. Especially if treehouse is around.

I have no problem with being short-sighted and close-minded about country music. My girlfriend loves it, and I have yet to hear something on any of the area's four country stations that doesn't make me want to be a city slicker. Johnny Cash get no airtime these days, and it's a sad fact.

My favorite pastimes are drinking, mocking those less fortunate than me, breaking the will of those that are damnably cheery, and plundering. Yarr!

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/3853/pirateprofileoq2.jpg

[Doombot]

Hmmm, I should also note that I'm still on the fence about choosing between a grappler (which I'll probably end up with), or my RHoD character. Both are appealing; one for the mechanics, one for the character. Do you have a deadline or anything Chris?

[LadyGlutter]

Heh. Are we all supposed to post pictures? :D

[MadDogMaddux]

Except I guess we may as well let you know I'm married to the GM (11 years now). He was my first DM, so If that's a problem speak now or forever hold your peace. ;)

:?

How the heck did I not pick up on this? LOL!

And yes, we definitely need to see a pic, especially now.

[MadDogMaddux]

I think that banter in the In-Character thread creates more of a tabletop atmosphere, that is, I encourage it.
I hate meta. I know that we are playing pretend with nerd-rules, but I would much rather see a portrayal of character, not of mechanics. The OOC should serve as a repository of rules-related questions, etc. I have the Campaign information section for particularly rules-heavy discussions, say, for instance, a particular reason why a curse tied to the moon on one planet still affects the afflicted in an entirely different crystal sphere.
Likewise, stating, flat-out, cruchy skills/abilities/etc. in character really shatters the suspension of disbelief. I think all of us have shown that we can present a well-written means of conveying mechanical intent without saying, "I'm disabling device on what appears to be trapped average lock". Honestly, I feel bad even saying it, because that's one of the reasons you guys are all here. You like the story as much (or more) as I do.Hurm.....

Definitely agreed on point 1. I enjoyed the give in take in Shadow Ops.

I'd like to hear you flesh out point 2 a lil' bit (and FWIW, my lycanthrope is natural, not afflicted, so the moon won't be an issue).

For point 3, are you saying that if Malek goes to pick a lock, you'd rather me describe it and leave it at that? Does that mean YOU'LL be rolling all the dice? (I'm perfectly comfortable with that, BTW - maybe even prefer it) How do I communicate to you the intricacies of what I want to do (especially, say, with putting certain points but not all in to power attack, or combat expertise, etc....)


Also, it occured to me that you are all still referencing the SRD for character creation. That's ok and all, but it indicates to me that maybe you're not using Hero Forge? (http://www.nzcomputers.net/heroforge/)TSK! TSK! All you need is Excell 2003 or better, and it's easily the best and most comprehensive approach to building a DnD 3.5 character I've ever come across. And - which is better yet - it's open liscence.

Check out Hero Forge, Spell Forge, and Chris you MAY want to look at Party Forge. (heck there's others in there too) It'd make it VERY easy for us to pass characters around, too, without running the risk of them being deleted from the internet like poor Jacks. *sniffle!*

[LightBringer]

Oh lord, here we go with Hero Forge.

Jacks lives forever in our hearts and minds! :)

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, I am all about some HeroForge (though I wish they'd move SF out of beta already!). I mention the SRD for easy reference.

Doom, you are the most happy pirate I've ever seen. Yes... very happy.

I'm about to head out the door, but I really, seriously, like what I'm seeing so far. I'll see if I can pop in later this evening, or perhaps over the weekend.

[Doombot]

It's all about the booty, baby. ;)

[MadDogMaddux]

Oh lord, here we go with Hero Forge.

Mreh?

Jacks lives forever in our hearts and minds! :)


Awwwww! *sniff*


Just bear in mind, if Jacks lives on in your hearts and minds, he very well may poison them. :KO:

[LightBringer]

Wow, I was expecting more of a reaction form Mr. GM.

Doom, I thought it was all about the beer? :smiling:

[Doombot]

Beer = Booty. Why else would plunder be necessary? The rum is gone because the beer is being drunk. That's why.

[MadDogMaddux]

OK, now for the real question that's bugging me. Why are we playing in a campaign named after the cutting boards (http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=1&cat=2,40733,40734,58264&p=58264) in my kitchen?

[MadDogMaddux]

And another question - am I reading it right that any time I change shapes, I destroy my magic items by virtue of size change?

In an epic campaign, that could be fatal. I have no issue with getting Wild Armor, but if the magic items (which can't have the wild feature added to them) are destroyed when I shift, methinks it's back to the drawing board....

[Doombot]

No, they just meld into your form and become useless until you shift back. Anything you put on after you shift functions normally, but when you shift back, it falls to the ground at your feet. I'm not sure if there's a provision for items that will fit both humanoid and non-humanoid shapes, like amulets, but I think they meld.

[LightBringer]

Lol, those are some nice looking cutting boards, and they are made in USA. I'll have to remember that next time I buy some for the wife.

[LadyGlutter]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b49/LadyGlutter/IMG_1217.jpg

This is us this weekend, sunburnt and goofy.

I discovered on the request, that we had no pictures of us together at all that weren't 5 years old. One or the other of us always is holding the camera. So we taught the 6 year old how to take a picture, and this is what you get. LOL

[Chris Chandler]

I look awesome.

No no, I'm not naming a campaign after kitchen supplies, but rather after this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureans). I think that it may apply to the characters that you develop, in one way or another.

On that same end, a. I hope everyone had a nice vacation and b. let's get back to it.

Okay, I want you all to start thinking about motivation, specifically motivation to rise to the point of becoming epic.

As an example, an orc chieftain can claim clan leadership, oust his warring neighbors, and conquer a kingdom or two, but after level 10 or so, what motivates the orc to move beyond the boundaries of warlord and into something greater? Even a war that reaches across the world isn't going to propel this chieftain into the ranks of truly epic. Perhaps he called a favor on a powerful outsider, who, for payment, took his firstborn, which turned out to be unacceptable. The path to this outsider is long and sure to kill our chieftain unless he were to become the greatest warlord the orcs have known; the right hand of Grummush. After another decade of toil, pain, and heartache, he finally is able to reach the outsider, who refuses to return the child, who is now infused with the heart of a fiend. Forced to now kill both the outsider and his lost heir, our chieftain is left in the dark depths of the abyss, a sworn hunter of demons, but not because they remind him of his old quarry, but rather because his rage and loathing for himself is so great that surely there is a demon powerful enough to kill him and end his pain, so that he may see again the face of his firstborn in the great hall of Grummush.

This is a combat heavy example, and one that I'm not sure even conveys what I mean. The small idea has no place in epic. It either has to be the blind adherence to a single ideal, or the understanding of the really big picture. LG and I were discussing this yesterday, actually, so perhaps she can give a better description of what I mean.

[MadDogMaddux]

No, they just meld into your form and become useless until you shift back. Anything you put on after you shift functions normally, but when you shift back, it falls to the ground at your feet. I'm not sure if there's a provision for items that will fit both humanoid and non-humanoid shapes, like amulets, but I think they meld.



Well, that's a LITTLE Better - but not what the Monster Manual I describes. And still, I plan on living most of my life as a hybrid - does that mean every time I become human I lose most of my toys? Blah!




And Chris, I'll get there - probably Wednesday. Right now I'm trying to nail all my nuts and bolts down (which is very hard, as you might guess!), cuz if I don't play a Werebear, that changes things significantly for me, ey? :P

[Chris Chandler]

From the SRD, referring to Alternate Form:


Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

many items (rings, amulets, capes, belts) are able to transfer into the alternate form. Things like guantlets or gloves, boots, and any armor (that isn't wilding) would not be, but, as you can see, isn't torn up. We can always make some alternate considerations, as well.

[MadDogMaddux]

Well, I'm certainly willing to pay extra to have certain items continue to function between sizes. But as I said, I plan on playing mainly in Hybrid form. Only problem is that makes speech difficult. Ey? Makes me wonder if werebear is a good roleplaying choice. :P

[MadDogMaddux]

Oh, and that reminds me, how much GP of gear can we buy?

[LadyGlutter]

Simulpost, slight edit. Wow you post fast, Maddog.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having anything ready yet. I still haven't picked a gender, race, or solidified much beyond a beginning. Much less the "nuts and bolts." We did discuss things over the vacation, but I'm still having a few issues I'm considering myself before I even get to crunching numbers.

On being "epic" -- I'll try and explain it, though I think you did just fine, C. Natural ability simply isn't going to get you EPIC. You could be a level 10 or 15 and never ever encounter anything that is going to be a problem to you ever again, be the king of your hill, unless you went out looking for trouble, or somehow trouble kept looking for you. All the goblins in the world won't make your level rise. To become epic, you have to have overcome some major challenges. It's really simple concept really, but you're not green behind the ears the way a low level character presumably is. You're not longer thrust into a situation you never expected or are ill prepared for. Even if its a surprise, you've been through enough stuff to have a really strong view of things, a strong enough view to do more than just survive. You've sought out and overcome crazy obstacles to become who you are. You won't have just become this awesome without some very powerful motivation, most likely inner.

I think the rest of the things we talked about are pretty easy to see, flowing from that idea. Epic is simpler to create that motivation for an evil character than a good one, as well. It's even harder if it is something with low intellectual skills.

[MadDogMaddux]

Simulpost, slight edit. Wow you post fast, Maddog.




Day off + DSL :P


I can dig what you're saying about Epic characters - I just hadn't considered it. I guess I just had assumed that there's a natural progression of bad guys to fight that you can gradually climb your way up the ladder. But you're asking what motivates someone to pursue that ladder past normal levels. What drive?

Now let me ask a question for perspective - How does a 25 level character relate to a deity in terms of power, etc? I've never actually PLAYED with Deities as other than just...erhm...distant power sources with superior will and power. Does that still hold true? Or do we now threaten the deities or our world? I seem to recall that a 20th lvl monk is a minor deity.

I ask this because that's where a lot of motivation comes from, at least in my opinion. Granted, it doesn't have to be the ONLY - but the way DnD is set up, deities motivate a lot of characters in their pursuits.

So if a cleric becomes more powerful than his Deity, does he lose the power from his Deity and thereby become powerless? :P

[Doombot]

I'm still trying to work up a character background for the grapple-monkey. If it gives me too much trouble, I think I might 'port in a much-advanced Aros from RHoD. I have a least a few ideas for that: some magical, cataclysmic event that shuttled him from Eberron to Athas, warped him a little, and probably caused some memory loss (owing to the fact that we haven't completed RHoD yet, so I can't very well make up stuff that hasn't happened ;)), and is trying to find a way back home. One major obstacle is that he distrusts/hates spellcasters. Is this cool with you, Chris?

[Chris Chandler]

It is one of the very pieces of the puzzle that is Aros. I'd expect nothing less! It'd be super-easy for Aros to return to Eberron, but that turns into super-hard without magic. If he's not totally against spells, perhaps there is something preventing him from returning.

Thanks, LG, I think that definitely rounded out what I was trying to say.

Now to the question that I'm sure you folks have pondered at least once since we've started:

With the concept of a Divine Rank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineRanks) characters really can't be compared to deities, even on a little bitty:big scale. Divine rank, and all of the crunchy that goes along with it, simply means that the deity is exponentially more cool than you, even with your epic shininess.

Applying the SRD, someone like Heracles (arguably an epic character) also has a divine rank of 0, (because his daddy was Zeus), which gives him some nifty things. You still couldn't kill him, because Zeus would jimmy the lock on Hades cage, and Heracles would be free to cause havoc again. That divine rank of 0 would be the very closest that your epic characters could attain, as far as the divine is concerned. Mortals have a null Divine Rank, not even a 0.

The Powers (that is the width and breadth of the powers throughout the universe) are beyond mortal ken, and suffer them accordingly, but cannot really be harmed themselves. Their servants and their manifestations, however, can.

The Powers, when they manifest on the Prime, or another non-home plane, are only (at least) Proxies (Think Farina, LG), that is, normal folks granted a portion of divine power or (at most) avatars, that is, a greater portion of the essence of the deity forced into the plane, subject to the laws of the world in question. That is why (in the Dragonlance mythos) Takhisis was able to be harmed on the Prime Material, but Raistlin couldn't even remotely touch her in the Abyss, even though he was the most powerful wizard in Krynn. Takhisis on the Prime was a very powerful Avatar of her true self, but not the power herself.

All that to say a 25th level character could probably stand on good ground against the Avatar of a Lesser Power (Divine rank of 6 or so), and could probably, with help, defeat a Hero-Deity (an individual with a Divine Rank of 0), though a mortal could not really kill him (because other things would be in play - the Zeus rescue angle).

To the cleric question - since the cleric, even if level 40, is still a mortal, he is still bound by the laws of his existence. The deity he would follow would outstrip his ability to such an extent that you might as well compare a 1st level commoner going up against the level 40 cleric; there really isn't a comparison. In this particular exercise, the deity can simply deny spells to his froward follower. That, right there, turns the extraordinarily powerful priest, someone capable of calling down the very wrath of his deity, into a poor man's fighter. How's that sound?

[MadDogMaddux]

That's about the sum of what I expected to hear. I'd forgot about Divine rank, but nonetheless......

[Doombot]

You know, I'm getting more and more interested in playing an Epic Aros. I think I'll scrap the Royce Gracie ogre idea.

[MadDogMaddux]

Anyone got feedback for me on the issue of the werebear? I'm beginning to think I should look for another concept - what with the issues of speech and magic items. :(

[Chris Chandler]

I personally have always liked the concept of a wearbear - epic is the time and place to play one, and you aren't going all "he's the biggest baddest werebear evar" about it, but rather that's just a part of his being - I like that little bit that I've seen.

The magic items issue actually isn't an issue - don't fret over it. Werewolves speak wolf when in hybrid form, yes? Get a minor item that allows folks to understand you, even if you are barking at them. Don't let two mechanical issues sway your choice. I'd like you to think about this character's motivation, though. Where is he going, how did he get there, where does he want to go? I don't mean that literally, either, but rather philosophically.

One thing to keep in mind, too - We aren't on a time crunch here. Take your time and talk things out here, and then we can put the numbers down.

Also (because my mind is running now, sorry) when I set out to make a character (not a class build study, for which HeroForge is awesome) I try to think of the mechanical aspect of the character in the last stages. I may think of an archetype, or a literary figure, perhaps something I overheard that struck my fancy, or, when writing something will come out that might be unsuitable for prose, but might work pretty well for roleplay. I'll take that little nugget, mull it over in my mind a few days, and start laying out the foundation of the character, often first choosing things like general outlook, demeanor, habits, things of this nature, then piece those together with bigger things, like a possible philosophical belief, loves and hatreds, and keep building, until I've got what I can envision as the character.

Once I'm done with that, I'll start looking for the toolset that fits him or her best. When D&D is the toolbox, I know that my particular tools are going to be a little bigger, a little more unwieldy, so I need to take steps back at what I'm trying to accomplish. I mean, it's one thing to have the idea of a demon hunter, and you can take that idea in a few directions, but D&D serves up big portions, as far as classes are concerned. Would it be best to take levels of Paladin planning on picking up Knight of the Chalice? Well, no, not if he's an Orc Chieftain from the far mountain tribes! What is a knight to him? The toolset doesn't jibe with the character, if only because of the cultural stigma. On the other hand does "Orc Chieftain" = Barbarian with levels in Eye of Grummush? Certainly not. D&D is bad about the stereotype, which can make it difficult to translate a character into a Player Character.

I know that I have a habit of spending too much time with the "baking bread" aspects of gaming, and character generation is no different. If you like a skillset, but don't like the flavor of the skillset, why take the flavor with you? The barbarian attached at the hip of the orc is probably the worst culprit, but I'm sure each of you have seen examples of this issue.

I... forgot where I was going with this. Oh yeah! Play what you want, and I want you to really think about your character, about that character's motivation. Once that's down, then worry about the crunchy bits. I think everyone's doing well, a lot of ideas have been presented, but please don't feel like there is some press of time, a deadline to be had.

[LadyGlutter]

To all that above, if Doombot is planning on playing something anti-spell caster based, I suppose that is a big enough thing to swing the dynamic of the entire party pretty heavily. So I'm gonna be nosy, and let someone rap my knuckles if I'm overstepping my bounds.

Does Aros hate clerics, druids, and mages with equal venom?

[MadDogMaddux]

One of the hangups of Occult Slayers and similar types is when they take damage. If they're magic haters, will they refuse to be healed magically? :P



Thanks for the thoughts, Chris. Malek is actually a character I've got a good idea on background for - which is why I'm nuts 'n bolts-ing right now. But as you wish, I can shift gears and get you more of his character - prolly later today.

[LightBringer]

Dude, Royce Gracie rocks. He was freaking awesome in the first UFC's. :cool:

I think the were-bear idea is pretty cool as well. I'm still kind of wondering why you haven't made more of a mention of Chris' desire to bump it to dire were-bear?

I'm kind of the opposite of Chris. I look at classes and crunchy while I roll the personality and motivations around in my head. To me some classes just fit some personalities better. Obviously if you, as a player, prefer fighting types of characters, you are not going to go with a passive type personality, and vice-versa. For me it's about rolling all the aspects around until they click together, and you have character and crunchy at the same time. Starting at one end, personality only, or the other, crunchy only, leaves me with having to force something, or make sacrifices that then cut into my picture of the total package. Tweaking something like a feat or a skill doesn't usually cut to deep, but if I have to sacrifice a whole piece of personality, then that is not cool.

Then there is the whole group dynamic which LadyGlutter is tackling now.

[MadDogMaddux]

Re: Dire Werebear

1) I don't find a template for that anywhere in what sources I have. Dire WereBOAR, yes, but not dire WereBEAR. I'm sure it's an easy tweak, but I'm not sure how to do it.

2) I'm FAIRLY certain that I'd have to give up more class levels for a few additional beast levels. As it is, I'm already coughing up something like 6 class levels for "bear". When you're making a skillful character and have 6 levels with only 4-5 skill points, that kind of hurts. It's all about balancing out gains vs. losses.

[LightBringer]

Ahhhh, I see. I certainly can understand that. That's what is causing me a lot of issues with my character creation, :nod: , as well as some other stuff. :worry:

[MadDogMaddux]

Chris, is there any way to open another thread here where I could pick y'alls brains for the campaign I'm going to be DMing? I'd love to share my ideas with you and get some feedback - but I don't want to hijack what's going on in this thread.

[Doombot]

Does Aros hate clerics, druids, and mages with equal venom?No, he's mostly against arcane casters; blaster types and controller types in particular. In Red Hand of Doom, he's partied up with mostly casters (of which Chris is one -- probably his favorite, to boot), so I cut back on the outright hatred. It's more of a deep distrust that occasionally peaks into loathing. Magic for utilitarian purposes is fine -- with ten levels of Suel Arcanamach, Aros will actually have some spellcasting ability himself (a fight fire with fire attitude), but only abjuration, divination, illusions, and transmutation. Stuff that will have little to no direct effect on his adversaries.

He's also more forgiving towards those he's familiar with. zachol's character Jean, a typical blaster-type, is alright because she's part of his unit, although there was some tension early on. Druids are just peachy keen as far as he's concerned, but that's probably because they tend more towards protective/enabling spells rather than explosions and mind control. Might also be because he's worked with druids more than other classes, a la Dahai. As far as getting healed, he's all for it.

Chris is pretty familiar with the character, so I'm sure if he foresees any difficulty, he'll let me know. Also, if you guys are interested in scoping him out yourself, you can check it out in Merc's game. (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1001)

Chris, I was thinking a neat addition to Aros would be the Spellwarped template from MM3. It's an inherited template, but I was thinking that whatever moved him from Eberron to Athas (or some other place, and then there to here) magically 'irradiated' him. That sound acceptable to you?

[Chris Chandler]

Re: Dire Werebear

1) I don't find a template for that anywhere in what sources I have. Dire WereBOAR, yes, but not dire WereBEAR. I'm sure it's an easy tweak, but I'm not sure how to do it.

2) I'm FAIRLY certain that I'd have to give up more class levels for a few additional beast levels. As it is, I'm already coughing up something like 6 class levels for "bear". When you're making a skillful character and have 6 levels with only 4-5 skill points, that kind of hurts. It's all about balancing out gains vs. losses.

1. Note that the templates are for common lycanthrope. There is the decided expectation to apply the mechanics of the lycanthrope to any animal model, be it rat, bear, shark, or t-rex. If you are interested in that, I'll put it together for you.

2. The Dire bear would be 12 levels instead of 6, so there is that sacrifice, true. Since you are angling toward a skill-focused character, it might be a good idea to stick with brown bear, rather than dire bear. The polar bear might be another option. We can give him a coat of brown paint and call him a cave bear ;).

Chris, is there any way to open another thread here where I could pick y'alls brains for the campaign I'm going to be DMing? I'd love to share my ideas with you and get some feedback - but I don't want to hijack what's going on in this thread.Sure, why not? I can put another thread in.

In Red Hand of Doom, he's partied up with mostly casters (of which Chris is one -- probably his favorite, to boot)He does love me!!!

Chris is pretty familiar with the character, so I'm sure if he foresees any difficulty, he'll let me know. Also, if you guys are interested in scoping him out yourself, you can check it out in Merc's game. (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1001)

Chris, I was thinking a neat addition to Aros would be the Spellwarped template from MM3. It's an inherited template, but I was thinking that whatever moved him from Eberron to Athas (or some other place, and then there to here) magically 'irradiated' him. That sound acceptable to you?LOL Where do you think LadyGlutter and LightBringer scoped you, Doom? I sent them to the source of our best interaction!

I'll take a look at the template this evening - I remember bits of it offhand, but I don't think that anything like that should be inappropriate. I think it's a good idea, but I'll bless it after I look it up.

As a related note, many of you are discussing creatures with an LA of at least +1. That gobbles up useful levels, so I'm going to implement an Unearthed Arcana rule. Take a look (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) and see if it might apply to you. I'll open the rule up to apply to any inherited template. This will help to take the curse off, so to speak. Don't worry about lost experience or anything like that, but rather consider yourself "caught up".

[MadDogMaddux]

I like the idea of reducing Level Adjustment - just not sure how to math that in. Currently I have 6 levels of Werebear. Does that mean I should amend it to reflect having 5 levels of werebear now?

[Chris Chandler]

It is based off of Level Adjustment (LA). The werebear has a LA of +4. You would have burnt the XP to lower the LA to +3 at level 12, then +2 at +15, and +1 and level 18, then eliminating it at level 21.

That means that for you folks that are looking at LA, anything less that LA +6 can be "bought off" for this campaign.

Hey, holy crap! 6 levels!

[MadDogMaddux]

SuhWEET!

So....hrm, you're saying I should just roll up 25 levels of non-werebear, then apply the Werebear template on top of that without the extra 6 levels. Ya?

[Chris Chandler]

Well, the bear hit dice still count for 6 of the 25 levels, so don't forget about that.

[MadDogMaddux]

Hrm. Ok, then I'm not sure how the rule affects me. The crunchy stuff I have in Hero Forge already contains 6 levels of Werebear. *scratches head*

[LightBringer]

Just, LOL.

[Chris Chandler]

You need to account for Effective Character Level (ECL). ECL = Hit Dice + Level Adjustment + Class Levels. A 1st level human wearbear fighter, therefore, is ECL 11.

[MadDogMaddux]

Gottit. So with the Unearthed Arcana, my Werebear can be ECL 25 with 6 Bear levels and 19 class levels.

[Chris Chandler]

Exactly. That's right.

[MadDogMaddux]

OK, Chris. Here's the rough sketch of Malek's Bio (http://1fsacr.affshc.net/MalekBio.doc). I haven't done the stuff on his personality, etc. But it's a good start, IMO. I'm open to comments.

The "thing" which can be used to justify Malek being Epic is what I'm using in my home campaign to turn the Characters into Gestalt Characters, but I figure it can work fine. Heh, it also gives a basic sketch of where I'm planning on taking the campaign I'm about to start DMing. :P

Again, I'm definitely open to comments.

[Doombot]

Chris, you know that Aros' favorite toy is his fancy pig-sticker, which has the Magebane Quality. Would it be possible to get it upgraded to the 'Dread' epic ability against 'mages' as well? It's essentially the same as having a regular bane/dread weapon, but the creature types on the list don't fit his style. A Mage-Dread weapon would be much more fitting.

[LightBringer]

I have a interesting question for you Chris. If somethings description is always Lawful Good, are we allowed to stray to say, Neutral Good? How tough are we being on my favorite D&D topic? :roll:

[LadyGlutter]

LOL... Enough I can't play a Paladin/Druid, I know that much at least.

[Chris Chandler]

Doom - the spellwarped template looks not only fine, but very appropriate for this character. As far as Anglachel is concerned, Magebane is only for arcane casters now (which weakens it a bit), and dread is just beefed up bane. Were you looking at having both qualities, or replacing one with the other? If we do the first, it will be an effective +9 weapon (+1 enhancement, +1 magebane, +7 magedread) without anything else, and I would have to say that the bane and dread attack bonuses would overlap, not stack. You could replace bane with dread (making the weapon +8), and not have the overlap.

LB: It honestly depends. If it is a creature that isn't directly tied to a specific plane of existence, then I'd have to say that it would need to adhere to that alignment (because the planes are segregated by that defining feature). If the creature isn't, even if it is an outsider, then I'd have to look at the creature and figure out why WOTC decided to shoehorn something.

[Chris Chandler]

LOL... Enough I can't play a Paladin/Druid, I know that much at least.

Well, you can play an ex-druid paladin, or a fallen paladin druid... That's not quite the same, though.

[LadyGlutter]

No, it's not. You're right there.

[LightBringer]

About the level adjustment, according to the rules if I choose a character with LA 6, I can't start reducing LA until level 18. So I would only be able to reduced 3 levels down, not the entire 6 levels.

I was doing it backwards anyway. I was adding the LA to my characters ECL and not including the Hit Dice. If something has 4 hit dice and a LA of +2, why didn't they just say the LA was +6 to begin with?

[Tashalar]

LightBringer is right about the rules on reducing level adjustment. A pixie with a LA of +4 can buy off its first level at 12th, its second at 21st, its third at 27th and its fourth at 30th. This means that only a +3 LA can be bought off entirely until level 25 according to the RAW. Unless I'm making a mistake myself. :x-eyed:

If something has 4 hit dice and a LA of +2, why didn't they just say the LA was +6 to begin with?
That's a very PC-ey way of thinking. Think of a creature with a level adjustment of +6 and... uh... two HD or class levels? It's way too dead way too quickly. Therefore they decided to make up for the benefits of a race by giving it LA on the one hand and the weaker HD on the other.

This whole campaign sounds like an adventure in its entirety. I'll be watching with interest. :)

[LightBringer]

That's a very PC-ey way of thinking. Think of a creature with a level adjustment of +6 and... uh... two HD or class levels? It's way too dead way too quickly. Therefore they decided to make up for the benefits of a race by giving it LA on the one hand and the weaker HD on the other.


Ahhh, but if it has LA +6 and 2 HD it's a ECL of 8 without any other class levels. So it still has to stay on par with level 8 characters, so they could have just listed it as ECL 8 instead of all the extra math.

Gotta run to lunch, I'll be back. :cool:

[Doombot]

I was looking to have Magebane upgraded to Magedread, since I didn't expect the bonuses would stack. Would it still affect creatures with arcane SLAs? I'll probably think of some other goodies to go on it as well. For one thing, at this point it will no longer be Anglachel (Iron Flames), but Gurthang (Iron Death), in keeping with the original reference. This probably took place after it was reforged with 'starmetal,' as described in CA.

[LightBringer]

Okay, I'm back. What I was trying to stay is that even if the 'character' has low HD and a high LA, or a high HD and a low LA the effect is the same. The 'characters' Hit dice and LA abilities put it on an ECL that is the same as a straight level character.

So if I were playing a Chain Devil that has 8HD and a LA of +6, why not just say it's ECL is 14?


Also on the LA reduction, I believe if the characters LA was +6, it could lose it first LA at level 18, and then it would be 21, 24, 27, 30, 33.

[Doombot]

Alright, I have a question aimed at the group: If I were to take Improved Sunder, would you guys be ok with that? I know some people don't like the idea of having all their treasure destroyed prior to winning the fight.

[LadyGlutter]

Ah, an easy one! None of my possible character concepts would have issue with that, Doom. ;)

[LightBringer]

Well since you asked nicely, and usually I just take it and screw the group, I don't see any issues with it.


If the race I had decided on, Hound Archon, has to always be Lawful Good, I'm going to take my character classes in Shadowbane Inquisitor. :cool:

[MadDogMaddux]

I have no problem with you Sundering, Doom, provided you ask before each item you break.

:P


Hrm. If you guys are picking up +9 weapons, I'm gonna have to re-think my kit.

[MadDogMaddux]

And I guess if we're declaring our classes to the fore, I should note that my Werebear will be a Scout/Ranger with good Disable Device.

[Chris Chandler]

About the level adjustment, according to the rules if I choose a character with LA 6, I can't start reducing LA until level 18. So I would only be able to reduced 3 levels down, not the entire 6 levels.

I was doing it backwards anyway. I was adding the LA to my characters ECL and not including the Hit Dice. If something has 4 hit dice and a LA of +2, why didn't they just say the LA was +6 to begin with?

That's correct. I meant to say that you can reduce the LA of up to a LA +6 character, but you wouldn't be able to reduce it entirely. That was my confusing text.

LightBringer is right about the rules on reducing level adjustment. A pixie with a LA of +4 can buy off its first level at 12th, its second at 21st, its third at 27th and its fourth at 30th. This means that only a +3 LA can be bought off entirely until level 25 according to the RAW. Unless I'm making a mistake myself. http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20cross-eyed.gifThis is also correct. I stand corrected after cross-referencing the XP chart and the example given. Just going by the drow in the example (LA +2), it looks like it decreases every 3 levels, but you recalculate the LA each time you reduce.

This is just a bit too crunchy!

*whew*

Now to go read what I missed.

[Chris Chandler]

I was looking to have Magebane upgraded to Magedread, since I didn't expect the bonuses would stack. Would it still affect creatures with arcane SLAs? I'll probably think of some other goodies to go on it as well. For one thing, at this point it will no longer be Anglachel (Iron Flames), but Gurthang (Iron Death), in keeping with the original reference. This probably took place after it was reforged with 'starmetal,' as described in CA.

Man, it's a +7 enhancement... Yes it would specifically affect creatures with arcane SLAs.

I like the reforging, too. That is most excellent.

[LadyGlutter]

Well since you asked nicely, and usually I just take it and screw the group, I don't see any issues with it.


If the race I had decided on, Hound Archon, has to always be Lawful Good, I'm going to take my character classes in Shadowbane Inquisitor. :cool:

Now, this is a much bigger problem than, oh, Sunder. I forget, C, where do we stand on in party fighting again? Because I'll kick any Shadowbane Inquistor THAT boy can come up with to where he can meet his higher power face to face. :calm:

[Chris Chandler]

Okay, I'm back. What I was trying to stay is that even if the 'character' has low HD and a high LA, or a high HD and a low LA the effect is the same. The 'characters' Hit dice and LA abilities put it on an ECL that is the same as a straight level character.

So if I were playing a Chain Devil that has 8HD and a LA of +6, why not just say it's ECL is 14?


Also on the LA reduction, I believe if the characters LA was +6, it could lose it first LA at level 18, and then it would be 21, 24, 27, 30, 33.

I can understand that - they added an extra step with the (HD+LA)+ any class levels. It's something that often gets overlooked, too.

The LA reduction, I noted above, has to recalculate each level, not every three (my initial mistake). That means an LA+6 would be 18, 33, 45, 54, 60, 63 (gag).

[Chris Chandler]

Now, this is a much bigger problem than, oh, Sunder. I forget, C, where do we stand on in party fighting again? Because I'll kick any Shadowbane Inquistor THAT boy can come up with to where he can meet his higher power face to face. :calm:

That is a most excellent question, and it's something I don't really think we've discussed with any meaningful resolution.

Okay, now I like it when the group gets along, because everyone is here to have fun. That being said, a certain degree of intra-party conflict is part and parcel to any game. There is, however, a point where conflict turns into in-fighting. I don't want to force peoples' collective hands, so how do we have a game where natural conflict is able to develop in a mature, non-contrived way, but avoid, for example, Maddog's character killing Aros because he broke a minor artifact, or LB's dog-sneak-paladin getting wailed upon by LG's character, because of the principle of the thing?

Now, in one game I'm running I asked that everyone involved integrate the other characters into their own backstory in one way or another. The reason I did that is because all the characters were from the same, very small settlement. It had decidedly mixed results, and, honestly, I wouldn't ever ask that of this group. I mention it here because I know that in a F2F game that is one way to avoid the "we met in a bar, over a beer" start of many low-level games. We do, however, need a reason for association.

It is important for everyone to note that they will be playing with a ensemble cast, though the individuals can be quite divergent. Why are you four associating with each other, without DM fiat? I mean, I can slap some fiat on you, but I don't think any of you would like that. I would like to find a sort of middle group between me shoehorning your characters into a social situation, insisting that there be relationships established, versus the calamity of four characters who would never associate with one another.

[MadDogMaddux]

Well, for Malek, it's fairly simple. He has a goal, he's in Athas, and he's not familiar at all with the place and its customs. Heck, I'm lucky if I can speak the same language!

Now, HOW I meet the other players, we'll have to hammer out individually, I think. But I'm already threading some basic ideas that can be a unifying theme, at least from Malek's perspective.

1) Aros hates arcanists, and Malek's mission involves destroying a powerful sorcerer/necromancer
2) LB's character might be a Hound Archon Shadowbane Inquisitor - even the mention of such a menace as a powerful Necromancer recently arrived on Athas should be enough to whip him into a froth-mouthed frenzy.
3) Hrm. LG sure is playing her cards close. I think she's planning on RPing a necromancer. :P


Anyway. I'm just saying that based on the way the characters seem to be falling, we can have a lot in common fairly quickly. All that remains is to hash out the story of how we came to be in cahoots.

[LightBringer]

HA! That puny piece of crap you're thinking of would stand no chance, :dead: , against the might of my hopped up guard dog. You're lucky that I'm not in a Lawful Good mood.

Are you sure about the LA thing? I think it reads like 3 x the original LA is the starting point, and then every 3 levels after that. Because with their logic, self-regulating xp, for paying off LA, it would make no sense to buy off any LA after +3, if that high. I mean really self-regulating after level 63...please!!

[Doombot]

Most of my sundering will probably involve weapons, since fighter-types without weapons are a lot easier to handle. Aros is bonded to his own sword, so he won't be picking up anything else. Also, improved sunder is a pre-req for Shock Trooper, which, among other things, allows better damage conversion for power attack after a charge. I'm still a little iffy on final feats, but I think I've got most of them down.

As for backstory, well, Aros is in about the same boat as Malek. He's in Athas, he has a goal (not to be in Athas), and he's unfamiliar with everything. Two strangers in a strange land seem like decent traveling buddies, although I guess that depends a lot on general outlook.

For getting to Athas from Eberron? Merc tried to give me a little help without spoiling the rest of RHoD, and he montioned that Xoriat and the Lords of Dust were involved somehow. I did a little research, since I'm a bit behind on the Eberron lore, and learned that non-natives to Xoriat are lucky not to have their minds completely shattered just by visiting there. The Daelkyr who are responsible for most of the aberrations on Eberron. Since the spellwarped template changes your type to Aberration, and since Aros will have some memory loss out of necessity, a trip to Athas through Xoriat sounds just about perfect to me. Maybe he was helping Dahai and some Gatekeepers keep Xoriat locked away or something, and got pulled through.

This should be interesting if the some mission involves a powerful sorcerer. Destroy the abomination, or go home? Choices, choices...

Oh yeah, before I forget: how far are you planning on taking us, Chris? Should I have some plan for the next ten levels, or is that a bit much?

[Tashalar]

Are you sure about the LA thing? I think it reads like 3 x the original LA is the starting point, and then every 3 levels after that. Because with their logic, self-regulating xp, for paying off LA, it would make no sense to buy off any LA after +3, if that high. I mean really self-regulating after level 63...please!!
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedRaces.html#reducing-level-adjustments
The table right at the top shows it quite nicely for the LA +3 version.
3x3=9 => start reducing LA by one at 9th level. Your LA is now 2.
2x3=6 => six levels from then you can buy off the next level, so that's at 15th
... and so on.

That's the way it works because the higher the LA, the more crazy and powerful your powers are and at some point you are just not supposed to be able to reduce the disadvantages of the LA any longer I guess.

[MadDogMaddux]

Xoriat is very much a zone of chaos, if I'm recalling correctly from playing DDO. I'm recalling that on the continent that Stormreachis located on there is a gate known as the Xorian Cipher. It's a nightmare of utter chaos (my Drow Necromancer has stormed the heck outta that place back in my day. :P ) and would make a GREAT place for Aros to have been sucked out of Eberron entirely.

AFAIK, the DDO world is based loosely enough on Eberron that it should translate decently.

*shrug*

[Doombot]

And now he's even more pissed off than he was that time Jean shot a fireball 200 feet into the air and signaled the ambush group that we were on our way.

[Chris Chandler]

That was a day where Dahai nearly took care of the issue, man. Why'd you remind me of that?! I mean, seriously, a signal flare? Oh, there wouldn't have been a magistrate in the kingdom...

Okay, with that behind us, let's move on to some specific tastes. I have a good idea, in general, what some of your preferences are, and since I've started this thread I've been buzzing with campaign ideas (which shall be closely guarded), but I'd like to hear what you folks would like to see in your game. What makes the game fun for you?

[Doombot]

Crunchy on the outside combat and fluffy on the inside RP.
Lots of low level mages for me to splatter.
A creative, consistent DM with solid players.


So far, so good, methinks.

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, MadDog brought up a very important point. Would you like for me to roll all dice, or would you guys like to have some amount of dice control. What I've done in the past is that I'll roll "indirect dice", that is, listen checks, unnoticed saving throws, etc. for you guys, but you handle active checks. Is there a preference?

[Doombot]

I'm cool with you rolling everything, if you don't mind. It seems to work well enough for Merc and tree, and I think it can help speed things along.

[MadDogMaddux]

I'm a big fan of you rolling all dice. Especiallly since you seem to be keen on this whole nonsensical suspension of disbelief :p.

As far as what I want?

Solid roleplay, but still some fun combats. I like to think tactically, but also to be challenged with diversity.

[Doombot]

Hey Chris, what's starting gold for level 25? I think I've got enough to put a rough draft up.

[LadyGlutter]

Alright guys, I'm more and more getting into my idea of Paladin of Freedom. I'll give you more specifics later, but I'm going to throw just that much out there for you to gnaw on. I think it'll be great but I also think that it could pose a lot of problems as well... moreso than even a necromancer ;). For example, LB's hound archon would indeed have been a bit of an issue.

[LadyGlutter]

Alright, on to other questions,

Yes, I've been holding my cards close and tend to do that sometimes. I'm having so many options in front of me, that I'm overwhelmed right now to be honest. I'm pretty character (personality) oriented, and making a match that fits with the ideas that have been presented has been giving me a headache. So I figured I'd make the above post asking for any input before I close in on that idea.

What I like and look for differs from campaign to campaign. But first and foremost I want to play and have fun. That seems obvious except that it's not always. I feel like the GM has a hard balance in PbP -- stories can take months and months (even years) longer to resolve than thought, steering the group to the main storyline can look like railroading when it's really trying to save the campaign from a dead end that could waste valuable time, keeping players can be an issue, keeping a complex storyline is hard. I like mysteries and tend towards a detective mentality in making characters often, but that seems to be particularly problematic in PbP.... I'm just kinda thinking here, and getting wordy, so I'll try to say exactly what I like instead of the inherent issues.

I definitely like an energetic pace, but I would like to have a chance to live life in the real world as well as have games online. ;). I think we should decide on a loose posting pace that is agreeable to everyone ahead of time. The LB/CC/LG group tends to not check in over weekends and holidays by formed habit over years of PbP, is that cool with everyone?

Hmmmm.... I'm not a super crunchy player but am more about the story. I'll work the crunch to work for me, yeah, but they're just rules and if we digress into fighting about the rules of grass growing I'll zone out until we get back to the story. To that end, I've never been in a game where the DM rolls the dice. It kinda worries me about pushing certain rolls (I do have certain understandings with my dice....) but I can easily see where it will cut down on unnecessary debate. In general I find C to be an even handed, fair DM and know that if I do have issues he'll try to hear me out and explain where he's coming from so we can resolve issues. So yeah, ok, you can take the dice I guess. ;)

I like a solid, stable group. I think we've tried pretty hard to recruit compatible people that will be reliable and strong roleplayers. I enjoy intellligence in players and PCs alike. I like to think out side of the box and be allowed to do so by both players and GM. Oh, and it's good to be assured people can keep OOC separate from IC. I think this group will handle that pretty well. In particular, I am not my character. (Even if I think my character is right.)

I think that covers it pretty well for now.

[Chris Chandler]

Hey Chris, what's starting gold for level 25? I think I've got enough to put a rough draft up.

Wow. I just looked it up. You only get 2.1 mil apiece. Have fun buying your own private countries and all that.

I really like all the concepts that have been floating around, that have been PMed to me, and that are posted here. For just one example - really great backstory MadDog! I can see why you wanted to focus on the mechanics at this point.

I'm getting really encouraged now.

I will start putting up campaign-specific information in the appropriate subforum this week, and will make notes here for what is in there. I'll post the background information as well as the rules to which we've agreed, plus other house rules that will affect the game. I'll also put links for already established material (SRD, Dark Sun PDF, etc.), so look for that coming up.

If you think that you've got a character ready for the initial look, go ahead and send me a draft. We'll tweak accordingly, and then I'll put the "final draft" in my own subforum. I'll allow each of you, individually to decide how much actual character information you would like other players to know. There are alot of things that would be known quantities, but I really like to keep most of the numbers completely offscreen.

Okay, I'll be back later. I suppose I'd better do some work :worry:.

[itches]

Wow. I just looked it up. You only get 2.1 mil apiece. Have fun buying your own private countries and all that.

Would now be a good time to tell you all about an exciting investment opportunity? ;)

[Chris Chandler]

I hear that properties on the Endless Staircase are going nowhere but up, up, up!

[LadyGlutter]

*groan*

[MadDogMaddux]

really great backstory MadDog! I can see why you wanted to focus on the mechanics at this point.




**BLUSH!!**



:P

[LadyGlutter]

So I take it that means there's no objections to my pally of Freedom? Not even from, oh, some lawful neutral parties out there?

[Chris Chandler]

Not from me, and I'm not even having a party.

[Tashalar]

*dances into the thread* But I am! Yeee-ha!

Chris... you're just trying to get another groan from LadyGlutter... admit it. :fun:

[Chris Chandler]

Hey now! We don't discuss such things in... Well... yeah, yeah we do.

[LadyGlutter]

:worry: Discuss what?

[Doombot]

*baum-chica-bau-waum*

[MadDogMaddux]

*baum-chica-bau-waum*


Was that supposed to be german for "Bow Chicka Bow Wow! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg3lYxXtoUM)"?

[Chris Chandler]

Okay, that was funny, but if that guy was on my team I'd let him get fragged every time. Good grief!

[LightBringer]

ROFL!!

That was freaking hilarious. Now I'm going to have to watch all their vids. :cool:

[Chris Chandler]

I'm working on getting something up either this evening or tomorrow. I've got class to teach this afternoon, and some errands to take care of afterward. I'm getting really excited about this.

[LadyGlutter]

*brakes screeching*


Wait, what you mean, get something up?

[MadDogMaddux]

redvsblue.com

:P

[LadyGlutter]

Oh, and aside from my panic that I'm supposed to have a character all ready? Am I?

I can't watch youtube right now, but I'll be sure to when I can.

[Doombot]

Eh, don't sweat the character. I'll try to have a rough draft submitted soon, but since my f2f group kind of decided that the next session will be Thursday (last session was on Sunday), I've got to scramble to work out just what the heck they're doing.

Oh, and for the record, I'll be out of town from the 14th to the 21st.

[LadyGlutter]

GM just emailed me saying that he's going to be in a meeting for somewhere around 4 hours. He planned on posting to here lunchtime, I think, but now he's not so sure when he'll be back.

[Chris Chandler]

I'm back now and am backlogged. Yay for bureaucrats! How about, I'll get something up soon, rather than give myself a deadline to miss. Soon is so vague there's no telling when I might post.

Ah the anticipa

[LadyGlutter]

Say It! :calm:

[Doombot]

I'd use a different word if I were you. Link keeps promising updates 'soon' in the challenge-rating challenge, and we're lucky if we get one every two weeks.

[Chris Chandler]

tion.

Go take a look at the Campaign Information Subthread, if you please.

[Doombot]

I was going to PM this to Chris for review, but I thought that the rest of you might like to see what I was up to as well (and could probably offer some advice). I'm not quite settled on feat and spell selection yet, so those could change. I also need to adjust his listed Special Attacks/Special Qualities to match the list of race/class abilities.

One feat that caught my eye is Permanent Emanation, so if you guys know of a good sorc/wizard spell of 5 level or lower that's Abjuration, Divination, Illusion, or Transmutation, and is an emanation (that's a lot of -ations!), let me know



And here he is, for the world to see:
______________________________________________

Name: Aros ‘Mormegil’ Camlost
Class/Level: Spellwarped (+3LA) Fighter 2/Hexblade 3/Occult Slayer 5/Suel (Xendrik) Arcanamach 10/Spellsword 2
Exp: 300,000/325,000
Race: Human (Aberration, Augmented Humanoid)
Alignment: NG
Religion: Sovereign Host (currently non-practicing)
Hit Dice: 7d10 + 15d8 + 198 (312)
Initiative: +11 (Dex +7, Improved Initiative +4)
Speed: 60' (30' w/o boots)
Age: 37
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 236 lbs.

AC: 37 (10 base + 5 dex + 10 armor [breastplate +5] + 5 defl [ring of protection +5] +7 natural [Amulet of Nat. Ar. +5, 2 Nat Ar.])
Touch: 20 (10 base + 5 dex + 5 defl),
Flat-footed: 32 (10 base + 10 armor + 5 defl +7 nat)

Base Attack/Grapple: 18/28 (17 BAB, 1 EAB)
Full Attack: Gurthang +34/29/24/19 (18 BAB +10 str +1 [weapon focus] +5 [weapon enhancement]) (2d6+20)*

*+1d6 against spellcasters/creatures with (Sp) abilities -- Weapon Bond (Occult Slayer 1)
*+2 enhancement, +2d6 damage against arcane casters/creatures with arcane (Sp) abilities. -- Magebane enhancement
*+1d6 damage to extraplanar creatures while on the material plane

Special Attacks: Hexblade curse 1/day (Will save DC 17), Dispelling Strike 3/Day (1d20+16)
Special Qualities: Arcane Resistance, Auravision, Blank Thoughts, Ignore Spell Failure 30%, Magical Defense +3, Mettle, Mind Over Magic 2/day, Nondetction Cloak, SR 33, Spell Absorption, Tenacious Spells, Vicious Strike, Weapon Bond, Acid, Cold, Fire, Electricity, Sonic Resistance 20, DR 15/Adamantine, Evasion, Haste 3/day - 20 rounds each, Immune to Crits, Permanent Death Ward Effect,

Saves*:
Fort: 23 (9 base + 9 con +5 vest)
Ref: 22 (10 base + 7 dex +5 vest)
Will: 29 (15 base + 7 wis +2 Iron Will + 5 vest) (Add'l. +2 vs fear effects; +4 on level checks vs. Intimidate)

*+6 to all saves vs. spells and SLA (Arcane Resistance -- Hexblade 2)
*+3 to all saves vs. spells and SLA (Magical Defense -- Occult Slayer 1)

Abilities:
Str: 30 | +10 (+2 – Level 12, 16; Base 20, +4 Spellwarped, +6 Belt)
Dex: 24 | +7 (Base 16, +2 Spellwarped, +6 Boots)
Con: 29 | +9 (+2 - Level 4, 20) (Base 19, +4 Spellwarped, +6 Belt)
Int: 20 | +5 (+6 Belt)
Wis: 24 | +7 (Base 14, +4 Spellwarped, +6 Belt)
Cha: 22 | +6 (+1 – Level 8) (+6 Belt)

Feats:
Level 1 - Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Fighter 1 - Improved Initiative
Human 1 - Iron Will
Level 3 - Power Attack
Fighter 2 - Endurance
Level 6 - Quick Draw
Level 9 – Combat Casting
Level 12 – Leap Attack
Level 15 – Arcane Strike
Level 18 – Extraordinary Spell Aim
Level 21 – Improved Spell Capacity
Spellsword 2 – Dire Charge

Race/Class Abilities:
Bonus Feat (Human)
Bonus Skill Points (Human)
Two class skills of choice (Human)
Hexblade Curse (Hexblade 1)
Mettle (Hexblade 3)
Arcane Resistance (Hexblade 2)
Magical Defense +3 (Occult Slayer 1)
Weapon Bond (Occult Slayer 1)
Vicious Strike
Auravision
Mind over Magic 2/day
Nondetection Cloak
Blank Thoughts
Ignore Spell Failure 30% (20% SA, 10% SS)
Tenacious Spells
Dispelling Strike 3/day (1d20+16)
Extended Spellstrength





Skills: 141 skill points
Appraise (class skill as per character creation rules): 7 (2 ranks +5 int)
Balance: 27 (+7 dex +20 boots)
Climb: 30 (+10 str, +20 boots)
Concentration: 38 (25 ranks (10 cross class) + 9 con +4 Combat Casting)
Diplomacy (class skill as per character creation rules): 7 (1 ranks + 6 cha)
Hide: 19 (7 ranks + 7 dex + 5 armor)
Jump: 47 (5 ranks + 10 str + 20 boots + 12 speed)
Knowledge: Arcana: 30 (25 ranks + 5 int)
Move Silently: 19 (7 ranks + 7 dex + 5 armor)
Ride: 17 (10 ranks +7 dex)
Spellcraft: 30 (25 ranks + 5 int)
Tumble: 52 (25 ranks + 7 dex + 20 boots)

Languages Spoken
Common
Goblin
Giant

Items:
Item (Location) Weight [GP value]
Gurthang - +5 Starmetal Ghost Touch Magebane Greatsword of Wounding (Black meteoric iron) (carried on back) 8lbs. [167,000]
Badge of Valor (pinned onto cloak) n/a [1000]
Composite Longbow (carried on back) 3 lbs. [100]
Dagger (on belt) 1 lb. [2]
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (worn on neck) [50,000]
Belt of Magnificence (worn on waist) [200,000] 1lb.
+5 Silent, Shadowy Mithril Breastplate of Greater Fortification [134,350] 15 lbs.
Ring of Protection +5 (left hand) [50,000]
Ring of Arcane Might +1 CL (right hand) [20,000]
Vest of Resistance +5 (chest, under breastplate) [25,000] 1lb.
Boots of Swiftness (feet) [256,000] 1 lb.
Orange Ioun Stone - +1 CL (orbiting head) [30,000]
Cloak of Universal Energy Resistance, Greater (worn on back) [180,000] 1lb.
Bracers of the Deathless (worn on forearms) [336,000] 2 lbs.
Tattoo of the Iron Wyrm (on back) [640,000]

Backpack (back) 2 lbs. [2]
Waterskin (tied to backpack) 4 lbs. [4]
Bedroll (backpack) 5 lbs. [1 sp]
Sack (backpack) 1/2 lb. [1 sp]
Flint and Steel (backpack) n/a [1]
Quiver with 20 arrows (Hip) 3 lbs. [1]
Rope - silken, 50 ft. (coiled in backpack) 5 lbs. [10]

Encumbrance: 51.5 lbs (Light Load)
Light Load: <533 lbs
Medium Load: 534-1064 lbs
Heavy Load: 1065-1600 lbs
Lift: 3200
Drag: 8000



Xendrik Arcanamach Spells/Day:
Caster Level 13, vs. dispel 19, duration x2
DC 16 + spell level
1 – 4 +2 bonus
2 – 4 +2 bonus
3 – 3 +1 bonus
4 – 3 +1 bonus
5 – 2 +1 bonus
6 – 1 +1 bonus


Xendrik Arcanamach Spells Known
1 - Shield, True Strike, Disguise Self, Enlarge Person
2 - Whirling Blade, Rope Trick, Spider Climb, Wraithstrike
3 – Displacement, Fly, Keen Edge
4 – Nightstalker’s Transformation, Greater Invisibility, Remove Curse
5 – Reciprocal Gyre, Refusal
6 – Antimagic Field


Wealth:
PP:
GP: 10,650
SP: 0
CP: 0
Treasures:

Appearance/Description:
Aros is a rather handsome man, despite the evidence of many hard battles on his face -- both physical and emotional. He wears a short goatee and short dark hair, which is usually concealed under his helmet. A tarnished breastplate covers his ample chest, and his plain looking -- but unquestionably effective -- two handed sword, christened Anglachel is carried on his back. Strong, but not overly brawny, it is clear that he can wield it with efficient grace and an economy of movement.
Thanks to a tattoo he has, penned in the blood of an ancient rust dragon (due to the Xoriat incident, he doesn’t remember how he got it), his skin has taken on a slightly metallic luster, and always seems somewhat cool and hard to the touch.

Mannerisms:
Aros has been a military man for many years, and a member of the Protectorate for three. The eldest son of a relatively well-to-do merchant, he signed into the army as both a means to defend his nation and a way to escape the monotony of a shop-keeper's life.
His acceptance into the Protectorate came following a brief campaign during which several of his squad-mates came under fire from an enemy mage. He was able to save the lives of several of his fellow soldiers and kill the enchanter, but the memory of seeing his friends turn on each other haunts him to this day. As a result, Aros distrusts such 'offensive' use of magic, feeling that such power should be reserved only for protection and healing.
At ease around other Knights, he tends to remain aloof around outsiders, despite his otherwise charming personality.


During the Last War, Aros was promoted to Captain following the incident at Drellin’s Ferry, during which he and his squad of elite Knights prevented an assembled army of hobgoblins and other creatures from invading Breland.
While attempting to assist a one of his soldiers and her fellow Gatekeepers prevent the Lords of Dust from re-opening a connection to Xoriat, the plan of madness, Aros was pulled through, and found himself on Athas. His memory was shattered, and he found he could only recall fragments of his past, prior to his arrival. Another, more tangible change was less immediately apparent: his body, saturated with volatile power, had been fortified against magical assault.

Other notes:
Take away Jean’s wand
Scold her

[Chris Chandler]

There's Lesser Globe of Invulnerability and Detect Scrying, but I wouldn't burn a feat on either. You have one of my very favorite "mage-killer" spells with reciprocal gyre. I wish that there were a way to get your caster level up a little more (Practiced Spellcaster is the easy choice, but requires dumping another feat...)

Just at a glance, your jump should be +12 higher (the boots add a competence bonus, but they also add to your base speed, which also adds to your jump). There are a few other skills that may or may not need correction due to armor penalty. Spellcraft should be a +29. Reflex Save should be a 22. How are you calc'ing Flat-footed AC? Past that, it looks peachy.

[Tashalar]

Suggestions for Doom? That sounds... dangerous. :roll:

Okay, I have never done anything epic, ever. But I still have some simple suggestions:

Your AC is too low! Just look at the competitors for the CR Challenge that were made with core only material. You probably won't need the AC to not get hit, but to "not get hit with a lot of power attack" in epic, heh.

If Chris allows this, swap your belt of giant strength for a belt of magnificience (+6 to all scores) and spend another 19,5k fpr the monk's belt abilities. Voilà: Another +8 to your flat-footed and touch AC (and the regular one as well).

While your sword is truly, truly epic - I think it costs simply too much. Toning it down a bit would give you lots of money to buy some other nifty enhancements.

Other than that - always remember:
Take away Jean’s wand LOL

[Doombot]

Yeah, I'm still thinking about the sword; I love the Dread enhancement, but it is sucking up a bit more than half of my wealth. I'll toy around with it and see what I can do -- I would prefer that it stay Dread, but I'd also like to to be more than a measly +1. I want to eat my cake and have it too.

I will correct skills and saves (and CL, I forgot to include the bump from Spellsword). I also think I'm going to drop improved sunder and combat brute in favor of leap attack and extraordinary spell aim. Illusory pit will be dropped in favor of -- what else? -- Antimagic Field. It just makes sense that I should be able to shut out magic, at least for a while.

Which brings me to my next question, Herr Chandler. I've had my eye on the feat 'Permanent Emanation' for a while, which allows me to make one emanation that I can cast permanent, centered on me. Extraordinary Spell Aim allows me to exclude myself (one creature, in this case, me) from the effects of the spell, provided I succeed a Spellcraft check of 25+ the spell level. Could I use this feat, in conjunction with Permanent Emanation to create a permanent, extraordinarily aimed AMF centered on myself? Or, assuming I go ahead and make AMF permanent anyway, would I be able to use ESA to exclude myself upon reactivation (assuming I suppress the effect, or it gets dispelled)?

[Chris Chandler]

Your sword is definitely expensive, and your AC is definitely a little low, but really only if you are planning on tanking. While shifting a good portion of wealth from your weapon to defense might be appropriate, it does take away from Aros' penchant for the "Mel, the cook on Alice" defense. Your Dire Charge/Combat Brute (momentum swing) combo will be pretty tasty, especially with a wraithstrike tacked onto it.

I had just read a discussion on that specific topic, regarding the feat, actually (he said knowingly...). Permanent Emanation works works completely fine, yes, with Antimagic field and Extraordinary Spell Aim.

Each time that the field is suppressed you will need to make another Spellcraft check to make sure that you are excluded from the spell effect.

[Doombot]

Awesome. I'll plan on taking that next time a feat slot opens up. And just in cased you missed the update (I can't understand how that might be), I traded in combat brute, but it essentially got replaced with Leap Attack, which will have roughly the same effect.

I'll consider swapping out weapon abilities for a little extra D. I'll likely go ahead and pay the 19.5K to get the monk's belt abilities on my belt no matter what.

[LightBringer]

Okay you guys are starting to scare me. I haven't gotten into the full details of Stat scores and stuff, but I had an idea, and I've got to say the fact of what Aros' stats are going to look like, make what I thought was going to be to high, pretty weak. :?

[Doombot]

If I break down and buy that belt of magnificence, Con, Int, Wis, and Cha will all go up by another 6. ;)

How much is that belt anyway? I seem to recall it being about 200,000, but I'm not one hundred percent on that.

[Chris Chandler]

Don't you worry your pretty little head, LB. Your character will only really need one score to be high, whereas Aros suffers a bit from MAD.

Yes, the belt is 200k.

[Tashalar]

Yep, 200k it is. :)

[LightBringer]

Lol, I'm not worried. I'm just saying what I thought was BIG was not big. Oh, I already did the math for the belt.

But, I have no intentions of changing the path my character is on, and if I happen to end up bigger than I thought, well then that'll be cool too.

[LadyGlutter]

Lol, I'm not worried. I'm just saying what I thought was BIG was not big.

Must... resist....

can't

Lots of guys have that problem, LB. You're not alone.

[Tashalar]

Lol, problem is... they think they have a problem when they don't.

[LightBringer]

Nice try LG, but like I said, I'm not worried. Just because the definition of big has changed, doesn't mean I'm not big enough to get the job done. :D

[Chris Chandler]

Nice try LG...

The fact that this had to be said, means ya got got.

What's that smell? Oh, just some BURN!

[MadDogMaddux]

Doombot - I didn't see your armor listed in your gear, just FYI. Maybe I failed a spot check.


Are you guys saying a Belt of Magnificence causes stats to go up IN ADDITION to other stat bumping items? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Chris Chandler]

The belt gives enhancement bonuses to stats, so, no, it doesn't stack with other gear, like a belt of giant strength or gloves of dexterity. What it does is that is saves 5 slots, which is worth the cost, personally...

[Doombot]

I thought I put it in there, but I might be mistaken. I'll give it a look in a minute -- the cost should be accounted for, at any rate. As for the belt, Other than my current belt, my boots are my only stat-boosting item, so +6 to 5 stats is a pretty good price. If I drop the helm of brilliance and the belt of giant strength (which will be redundant), I'll have enough to go for the belt of magnificence + monk's belt goodies.

[Chris Chandler]

You can't use a monk's belt in conjunction with regular armor:

This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/monk.htm) of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#stunningFist) feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.Monk AC bonuses don't work:

When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks) or when the monk is flat-footed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted). She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless), when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.You actually would still have the unarmed damage, so your unarmed attack would deal 1d8 damage. Now then, you could turn in your armor (135K) for both a Monk's belt (13K) and some Bracers of Armor +8 (64K), and end up with better AC, especially touch AC. Compare:

+5 Mithril Breastplate: +10 (Armor) +5 (Dex) = +15 to AC
Monk's Belt + Bracers of Armor +8 = +1(5th level monk) +4 (Wis) +8 (Bracers) +7 (Dex) = +20 to ACPlus, it's cheaper, though, admittedly you aren't getting the +5 to hide and move silently.

[Doombot]

Ah crap, forgot. Had that problem with the CR challenge too. Will think about that.

I'd love to have the higher AC, but at the same time, I like the flavor of the armor. I can't really picture Aros running around without a lot of metal strapped onto his torso. Not full plate, of course -- that's just not practical for running through the woods and killing hobs and crap, but at least a good, trusty breastplate.

[MadDogMaddux]

Hrm. So where do I find the belt of magnificance and other goodies like that? Definitely not finding them in the Magic Item Compendium......

I just want to make sure I'm getting the best primary weapon I can. Right now I'm looking at a +4 Holy Sacred Metalline Great Swordbow (+14 STR) of Sizing.



Dang, I wish I could go the route of the monk's belt + bracers, but I need the bracer slot, and I like stuff I'm adding to my +5 Mithril BP (Wild, Death Ward, and Mobility)

[Doombot]

I believe the Belt of Magnificence can be found in the Minatures Handbook.

[LightBringer]

Sometimes you just have to be happy with the concept and pass on all the pretty shiny stuff. ;)

[MadDogMaddux]

Oh, I'm happy with the concept. Just at the tweaking stage.


And where the heck is this Magedread sword enhancement found? Not that I'm going to take it, but I'm curious.

[Chris Chandler]

That's in the Epic Handbook. It's also listed in the SRD epic section.

[Chris Chandler]

Okay folks, I think we are getting the wrinkles ironed out pretty well with our builds. I've been doing a lot of correspondence with folks, plus what we have here, and I'm pretty pleased with what I've been seeing. I'm going to put some more stuff on the logistics page soon, but I am not going to put up campaign details until after each character has been marked as approved. I will provide some indirect campaign specifics, in the way of some 3rd Party links. You all should consider anything on those pages as fair game.

[Doombot]

Chris, I'm seriously considering dropping the Dread ability from the sword and leaving it as Bane, while getting some other (less expensive) stuff thrown on there. Before I do so, I have a few questions first:

A) What's the rule of thumb for pricing out items that don't take up space? For example, if I wanted a ring of ironskin without taking up a ring slot -- a tattoo, or something -- is that doable? Or if I wanted something transferred to a cloak?

2) What's the scope of this campaign? Will I ever have the opportunity to upgrade the Bane quality to Dread? Even if it comes about in some way other than paying someone to enchant it, that'd be sweet.

�۩) If I want to have a rough plan of my advancement, how many levels should I ostensibly consider?

[LadyGlutter]

2) What's the scope of this campaign? Will I ever have the opportunity to upgrade the Bane quality to Dread? Even if it comes about in some way other than paying someone to enchant it, that'd be sweet.



Yeah, Chris, what IS the scope of this campaign? LOL

*runs for cover*

[Chris Chandler]

You guys are lucky I'm late for lunch...

I shall return.

[LightBringer]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, NOOOOOOOOOOO, not the scope!!!!!!! :tsk:

[Doombot]

It's a 4x scope with a moisture resistant objective, EZ-Site crosshairs, and an optional laser mount.

[MadDogMaddux]

Leupold?

[MadDogMaddux]

Since Doombot posted Aros, here's my work in progress for Malak, I'd LOVE comments and suggestions.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Name: Malak
Alignment: NG
Age: 23
Height: 6'6"
Wt: 212
Hair: None
Eyes: Black
Skin: Dark Chocolate
Ethnicity: Touv
Deity: Obad-Hai
Size: Large


Description:

Malak (http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3182924032/nm0579795) is a tall, deeply dark skinned man of Tuev (African) descent. Despite his heredity as a werebear, in human form he is quite lithe for his size (i.e. not blocky, massive yet lithe). He wears his hear shaven, sports gold hoop earrings in each ear, and readily flashes a bright smile. He has an easygoing relaxed demeanor, and enjoys passing the hours with storytelling and the occaisional campfire song. At first impression, he can be quite intimidating, yet generally goes out of his way to allay any fears by means of his warm smile and general affability. He is clearly quite intelligent, and in social circles his eyes tend to twinkle with a mixture of wit and cunning.


(Stats below are for Hybrid Form)

HP: 307
Speed: 40
Initiative: +17 [12(dex)+5(misc)]
AC: 48 [10+10(Armor)+7(Shield)+5(Dex)-1(Size)+12(Nat Arm)+5(deflect)]
Touch: 19
Flat-Footed: 48
DR: 10/Silver

Stats:
STR: 38 [16(base)+16(racial)+6(magical)]
DEX: 34 [22(base)+2(racial)+4(Stat Bumps)+6(magical)]
CON:28 [14(base)+8(racial)+6(magical)]
INT: 24 [17(base)+1 (Stat Bump)+6(magical)]
Wis: 22 [13 (base)+1(Stat Bump)+6(magical)]
CHA: 20 [14 (base)+6 (magical)]


Saves:
Fort: 29 [14(base)+9(ability)+6(magic)]
Ref: 34 [17(base)+12(Ability)+5(magic)]
Will: 21 [8(base)+6(ability)+7(magic)]

BAB: +19/+14/+9/+4

Grapple: +41

Attacks:
+4 Huge Holy Sacred Bursting Greatsword of Metalline: +36/+31/+26/+21 (4d6+25, 19-20/x2)
+4 Huge Holy Sacred Bursting Composite Longbow STR+14: +34/+29/+24/+19 (3d6+19, 20/x3)

Skills:
Appraise: +7
Balance: +18
Bluff: +5
Climb: +18
Control Shape: +6
Concentration: +9
Diplomacy: +5
Disable Device: +39 (+41 with MW Thieves Tools)
Disguise: +5
Escape Artist: +11
Forgery: +7
Gather Information: +5
Handle Animal: +14
Heal: +6
Hide: +35
Intimidate: +5
Jump: +24
Knowledge/Arcana: +26
Knowledge/Geography: +16
Knowledge/Nature: +20
Knowledge/Religion: +32
Knowledge/The Planes: +26
Listen: +26
Move Silently: +33
Open Lock: +13 (+15 with MW Thieves Tools)
Perform/Storytelling: +6
Perform/Singing: +5
Search: +34
Sense Motive: +6
Speak Language: 5
Spot: +26
Survival: +26
Swim: +16
Tumble: +32
Use Rope: +12

Feats:
Education (ECS 52)
Combat Reflexes
Improved Initiative
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Power Attack
Telling Blow (PH2 p. 83)
Epic Toughness (CW 151)
Tactile Trapsmith (CAd 112)
Improved Skirmish (CS 78)
Swift Hunter (CS 81)
Woodland Archer (RW 154) (Thinking about dropping this for Swift and Silent, or mabe another Tactical Feat?)

Race Abilities:
Low-Light Vision
Curse of Lycanthropy
Alternate Form
DR 10/Silver
Lycanthropic Empathy
Scent
Feat: Iron Will
Improved Grab
+4 Racial Bonus to Swim

Class Abilities:
Proficient in light armor, all shields, all simple and martial weapons
Uncanny Dodge
Wild Empathy
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step
Evasion
Fast Movement
Favored Enemy: (Undead, Evil Outsider, Construct, Aberration) +2
Swift Tracker
Camouflage
Trapfinding
Skirmish: +5d6/+5AC
Battle Fortitude: +1 to Fort and Init
Flawless Stride
Spells: Ranger Caster Lvl 5
Spell Reflection: 13/day Immediate Action to reflect a spell or spell-like that missed
Distracting Attack: Whenever youhit an opponent (melee or not) he is considered to be flanked for adjudicating allies attacks.



Gear:



Belt of Magnificence: 200,000
Amulet of Natural Armor +5: 50,000
Goggles of Foefinding: 2,500
Gwaeron's Boots: 6,000
Greater Ring of Universal Energy Resistance: 200,000
Cloak of the Bat: 26,000



Breastplate +200
Mithral +4000
Nimbleness +1
+5 +5
Death Ward +1
Mobility +1

Total: 68,200

Crystal of Mind Cloaking, Greater 10,000

Heavy Darkwood Shield +57
+5 +5
Animated +2
Ghost Ward +1
Daylight +3000

Greater Crystal of Arrow Deflection 5,000

Total: 52,057

Great Swordbow (STR +14) +4150 (All Enhancements which affect both Sword and Bow cost double)
+4 +4
Metalline +2
Holy +2
Sacred +1
Sacred Burst +1

Total: 200,000

Truedeath Crystal, Greater 10,000
Demolition Crystal, Greater 6,000
Witchlight Reservoir 5,000



Strongarm Bracers 6,000
Survival Pouch 5,000
Troll Gut Rope 500
Heward's Handy Haversack 2,000
Quiver of Elhonna 1,800

Acid x 10 100
Alchemist Fire x 10 100
Masterwork Thieve's Tools 100
Magic Bedroll 500
Scabbard of Keen Edges 16,000
Wand of Cure Moderate (50) 11,250

Total for Above: 884,107

(Obviously, I've a few other pieces of gear to get.)

[Doombot]

I'll have to make in depth comments on him later, but so far, so good. He seems like the kind of guy that could be good friends with Aros (http://www.toddlockwood.com/resources/images/galleries/dnd/02/regdar.jpg).

After looking over the sheet a little more, I'm noticing one thing: you don't have your classes listed. If I had to guess, I'd say some mix of Ranger, Scout, and possibly a dash of rogue. Werebear levels too, of course. Is this deliberate, or just an oversight?

[Chris Chandler]

OMG!!! I did not hit "Submit Reply" on this. It's been sitting since yesterday at lunch!!! Yar!

Chris, I'm seriously considering dropping the Dread ability from the sword and leaving it as Bane, while getting some other (less expensive) stuff thrown on there. Before I do so, I have a few questions first:

A) What's the rule of thumb for pricing out items that don't take up space? For example, if I wanted a ring of ironskin without taking up a ring slot -- a tattoo, or something -- is that doable? Or if I wanted something transferred to a cloak?

2) What's the scope of this campaign? Will I ever have the opportunity to upgrade the Bane quality to Dread? Even if it comes about in some way other than paying someone to enchant it, that'd be sweet.

�۩) If I want to have a rough plan of my advancement, how many levels should I ostensibly consider?

I. I'm working with MadDog right now, actually, about some custom items. PM me your idea, and I'll work up the figures.

b. In-game gaining of treasure is, honestly, how I prefer it, and I hate the concept of "Ye Olde Magick Shoppe". If you want to increase the power of a particular item, I'm all for it, but things will not be as simple as a gold-matter conversion. Expect to deal with agents and cranky artificers for anything more than a potion.

X. A good rule of thumb would be to consider the next 5 levels. I'm not saying that's where it will end. I'm saying that it's really difficult to be predictive in an Epic environment.


Now then, quit pickin' on me about scope. The scope is BIG, and LB realized, to a point, what that means, and now Doom has a piece.



F'nargin bastiches...

[LadyGlutter]

So, I realize that except for making a joke or two, I've been pretty quiet around here. That might give off the wrong impression. So, be it officially known that I am indeed working behind the scenes on my character, but I'm not going to post everything up here for everyone to boggle at. :)

[Chris Chandler]

As LB and MadDog already know, Doom, LG's the one that should be the true object of your concern. :eek:

I will say that she's been really working hard on her concept and build, to be honest. In fact, between the four of you, I'm pretty pleased with how things are progressing, character-wise. I like the characters, and I like how the builds have really really kept in tune with the backstories I've received.

Keep in mind, though, that while I'm happy for all this crunch to continue as you forge your respective characters, my goal is for all of this to be seamlessly behind the scenes once we get started in earnest.

[MadDogMaddux]

Eep! Should I have not posted publically then? My bad - just looking for help with my first ever truly epic character. :(

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, no no no. I gave the option of public versus private. It's perfectly fine. There's no problem with either choice, as far as I'm concerned. I know some folks like feedback and don't mind having an open sheet, especially during the creation process. Others like to keep that stuff between themselves and DM. It's totally preference-based.

[LadyGlutter]

Nooooo! No frownies!

Just because I'm secretive and stuff doesn't mean you have to be. I am protective of my work, and also when I'm unsure, I can be overly swayed by nifty suggestions and end up with something I really didn't want in the first place. Plus my chica has a secret. ;)

Hee hee, simulposty by GM. Yay!

[Chris Chandler]

Oh noes!!!111eleventy

You're playing a girl? What devilish mind games are you playing with us.?First, gender disclosure, next the slippery slope to favorite colors and then we'll know everything!

I'm onto you...

[Doombot]

I posted my character up because this is my first attempt at Epic play, and making the jump from level 7 to level 25 makes it pretty easy for things to fall through the cracks. As it is, I'm still finding little things wrong (I had initially forgotten to adjust HP after buying the belt of magnificence), or thinking of new ways to make him even better.

For 'custom' items, I have been considering something with the Ironskin power or universal energy resistance in the form of a cloak, a tattoo, or both. If I go with a non-epic but maximally enchanted sword, it will free up roughly 1 mil to spend on other items. I'm at my folks' place right now, so IDHMBIFOM, but when I get home I'll look over some of the other items that might catch my fancy.

LG is the one to worry about, eh? Guess I'll have to find some wya to transfer part of my spellcasting ability to her, throw up an AMF, and start beating her down with a sharpened metal stick. But seriously, how can she be worse than Jean? ;)

[MadDogMaddux]

OK, sorry. Just worried I was revealing too much. We ARE all on the same side, right guys? Guys? Um....guys? Aw.....crap. :P


So then. Malak: (yeah, I changed the spelling of his name, I think)
Scout: 1, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19
Wearbear: 2-7
Ranger: 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22-25

I used two variants:
Replaced Animal Companion with Distracting Attack
Replaced Scout's Evasion with Spell Reflection. (Since I already get Evasion, but apparently don't get Improved Evasion for the 2 stacking? Even so, I don't think I'm TOO likely to fail my Reflex save, so Spell Reflection is the better buy, IMO)

[Doombot]

Most DM's I know usually let the second iteration of evasion 'upgrade' to improved evasion. I don't want to put words in Chris' mouth, but it's worth asking him about.

[LightBringer]

MadDog you don't have a level 21 listed.

[MadDogMaddux]

Oops! Scout. Werebear 6/Scout 8/Ranger 11

And re: Improved Evasion - I think I prefer the Spell Reflection alternate instead. I've got a pretty high REF, so odds are good I'll rarely take damage from something Evasion will help with. So the Spell Reflection seems a much more.....epic....feel.

[Chris Chandler]

I tend to agree with that. I like the concept of spell reflection. Improved evasion is one of those things that, if you've gone ahead and stuck it out over 10 levels of rogue, you've earned it.

Okay, now to it. I'm putting some stuff up today (because I got a nice bee in my bonnet from having new blood at the F2F game), and please check your PM boxes.

[LightBringer]

I just can't stand a thread with no updates.

I'm about 75% done with my character. My apologizes for the slow pace, I'm having issues with spells and feats.

[Doombot]

No worries; I still need to make some major overhauls to my sword, but I need to wait until I get home to my books for that.

[Chris Chandler]

We're getting a lot done off screen, so to speak. We're on a good pace.

[MadDogMaddux]

Everyone awake?:evolved:

[LadyGlutter]

I am! I'm taking Doombot at his word that I had this week to play around. I will admit to playing musical computers in the last couple of weeks, and that cripples me more than I'd expected. So, I've been slow, but I'm nearly there.

[Doombot]

*hears someone mentioning his name*

Shwhat? Oh yeah, you'll have the rest of the weekend too. I have a wedding to go to on Saturday, and a f2f session to crazily prep for and run on Sunday. And odd moments during the next week will likely be filled with this and vet school application.

[Doombot]

Ok, I changed Anglachel's stats around, so it's a little more potent against regular people, and I've got just over a mil left to play with. Some of the things I've been considering: an item with continuous Death Ward effect, an item that acts like a ring of Ironskin (DR 15/Adamantine), and an item that grants some sort of elemental resistance (universal, or immunity, or something, not sure which I want).

So how much is it going to run me? I've calculated price for the death ward stuff, which as per DMG would come out to about 112,000. Not sure about the Ironskin or resistance -- I think a tattoo of Ironskin would be sweet, as far as that goes, but I'm not sure how to price it. I've still got cloak and had slots open, in case it matters.

[Chris Chandler]

Go ahead and PM the detailed specification and I'll hammer out a price for you.

In fact, that's what I'm going to do this week, is price your custom items. If you've sent me something, send it to me again, because I can't think of any item that has been suggested to me where there has not been any conversation about changing said item. That means please send me the latest "draft" of each item. I'll actually sit down and run the numbers and get them back to each of you this week. That also means to get them to me 'fore Wednesday, since I'll be on the road Thursday, and on vacation Friday 'til Monday.

Well... it's visiting LB, so I don't know just how much of a vacation it will be, but still, it's time off from the desk job.

[LightBringer]

Oh, don't worry, you'll relax, even if I've got to beat you to make you to it. :P

[MadDogMaddux]

Attaboy Dale!

[Chris Chandler]

Promises promises. You are such a tease.

[LadyGlutter]

Lol. You two are so sweet.

Notice he didn't tell you that we'd all relax. He's not entirely full of it. :P

[LightBringer]

I am to entirely full of it, don't try to jip me of my fullness. :evolved:

[MadDogMaddux]

yeah. I'm absolutely terrified of what they're whipping up behind my back.

Come to thing of it, now that I know LG and Chris are married, I'm terrified of the same from that front.

Doombot, you and I better become buddies, and quick! :P

[Chris Chandler]

You know that it is a very sad state of affairs when the only ally left to a soul is DOOM.

[LightBringer]

Rofl. Priceless!

[Doombot]

Doombot, you and I better become buddies, and quick!Greetings good sir! May I take this opportunity to inform you about a special organization called Friends of Doom! Friends of Doom is an exclusive club, membership of which is available only to those elite few with the resources to join! Five monthly payments of $399.99! All that it takes! Call now! Sorry, no CODs!

I can see us being very good friends. A big, black, werebear, and a big angry anti-wizard? Natural allies!

And Chris? Doom is the only ally one should ever need.

[MadDogMaddux]

Dang, and I just blew my paycheck.......do you take IOUs?

[Doombot]

Hmm....sure, why not?

[Doombot]

Ok, I just put what I hope will be the finishing touches on my character. You guys will have to stay on top of me to keep from referring to my sword by it's old name, 'Anglachel.'

[Doombot]

Forgive my triple-post:

I don't know how close we all are to being done -- I know I'm pretty much there -- but is it possible to start a little pre-game roleplaying? You know Chris: kinda like Merc and tree did for us for RHoD? I don't know if you were planning on us being a group when we started, or if you wanted to bring us together in the opening scene, so this may not work.

[MadDogMaddux]

I've still got about 3/4 million in gear to buy. Other than that, I've got my background and basic character modus operandi outlined. Unless I've overlooked anything, Chris?

[LadyGlutter]

Weeee're baaaaack!

I had a tag team by LightBringer and Chris over the weekend that pushed me over my edge and I'm rolling down hill now. I plan to be finished by the end of the evening with Mizuki. :) So after that, I'm up for pre-roleplaying roleplaying.

[Doombot]

Sweeeeet.

[Chris Chandler]

And as far as that goes, let's aim for a game start of this coming up Monday (which will give me a weekend's worth of layout). Yeah, whenever folks are set, feel free to start the Pre-RP RP. I can put down a brief starter when everyone says "Go".

[Doombot]

"Go."

[LightBringer]

I'll say go when you explain what a pre RP RP is.

[Chris Chandler]

Doom is referring to the following thread:

http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6081

This thread is where the group of us in the Red Hand of Doom took an "evening discussion" and ran with it, initiating dialog and putting down a little bit of backstory. It was a non-disclosed, outside of the real beginning, where there were no expectations for anything more than just cursory introductions. The dialog helped to define the group. We still adhere to many of the concepts developed in that little chat.

Now then, there were a few things about that prelude -


We are all in a singular military unit, and it had been established that we had known each other, in one way or another, for some years.
We were "in the middle of things", that is, involved on the tail end of some non-specific prior adventure
I've not really thought of anyone in the group knowing anyone else, outside of what might be established through any backstory. AFAIK, y'all have know each other for no more than a week. We can treat this as the means that the four individuals develop into a party, establishing those relationships amongst each other over discourse. That way, the campaign proper can move forward with the understood relationships of the party members already established.

Does that help?

[LightBringer]

Yes, and No.

So basically you want us to start the RP of the initial meeting, and the following week leading up to the start of the aventure/campaign proper?

[Doombot]

Essentially, but all fast and loose. If Chris does anything like what he linked to, he'll give us a good setup, and say go, and then we just talk it out and see where the conversation takes us.

I'm not sure if he has any idea about how we all met, or if he's going to leave that more up to us, but there should at least be enough to get us started.

[Chris Chandler]

I do have an pretty solid about a very recent common occurrence, but it actually does not actually force a prior meeting. It'll come out in the introduction. Like I said, I'll have a whole weekend for building the prelude post.

[LightBringer]

I suppose go ahead. If I have issues I'll just bring them up as we go, but having the group meeting is one of my issues. I'll just go with the flow for now.

[Chris Chandler]

Well, wait now. It's only a suggestion by a player. It is nothing that we have to do, and even if we do something like this, the format can certainly change. I'd like to know your issue, please. If you'd like, send me a PM.

[LightBringer]

Here are my issues on this subject. Primarily how and why would I meet this group?

From the sounds of it Doom wants to just all of a sudden be sitting in a bar chatting it up. Omni wouldn't care about being in a bar, much less chatting it up with someone like Aros, that I'm sure gives her the heebie-jeebies. http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20silly.gif That was my initial thoughts on it.

I remembered later that I have given you the means in which to steer me where I would need to go, and restored my faith in the fact that you wouldn't just throw Omni in a bar to chat it up.

I guess the fact that a player was trying to wrangle this threw me off, and that a player would be setting terms on what was going to be happening, and how things were going to go down.

I really am fine with whatever you come up with, because I know it will be in the spirit of our characters, as much as possible. http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20cool.gif

Please remember, these are my issues, and not meant in any mean spirit, or a pot shot of some type, just simply concerns and initial reactions.

[LadyGlutter]

Hmmmmm..... I'll chime in with a second to that! I am not completely ready but fairly well so, but then I also got a little concerned upon reading the linky provided. I was also hoping we would not be placed in a bar or a military unit, but somewhere that the GM would give us a framework for a more natural way (given our character stories and quirks that he mostly knows) to meet up.

[Doombot]

From the sounds of it Doom wants to just all of a sudden be sitting in a bar chatting it up.Quite the opposite in fact. I was hoping Chris would set us up with something so that we wouldn't have to start in a bar. And frankly, the military unit thing has been done, and since our characters are all new to Athas and each other, I don't see how we could be part of a squad.

What I was asking for was for Chris to give us the setup, so that if our characters had already met each other (as presumably they would have at that point), we could begin to establish the basics of the group relationship. If you guys aren't ready for that, that's fine, but since the chatter about character creation has pretty much died, I figured it was on to the next step.

[Chris Chandler]

Well, those are really good points, guys. Let me ask you a question. Would you, as a group, rather have some sort of understood "offscreen" meeting, or would you rather that be established within a prelude?

[LightBringer]

Like I said, that was my first impression. After I thought about it for awhile, I realized that Chris would try to navigate us to the point where we were all together, and to a talking point that would fit our characters.

For me the first impression in a game is much like the first impression in life, extremely valuable in determining someone's strength's and weaknesses. With an arranged meeting and into conversation, that first impression is warped.

I also realize that moving through the meetings and then proceding to the next leaves someone out of the loop, until they are brought in, as well as takes a lot of time. Also, there is the possiblity to 'getting off on the wrong foot', and instantly start trying to kill one another. (I have no clue who could have done this before. :calm: )

So as I said, I have faith that Chris will do his best to make sure his description of the initial meeting and events leading to this conversation will reflect our characters, and be in the spirit of our character creation.

Chris your fancy words confuse me, :fun: . I say just write up the start of the story as you see it happening, and then I suppose we take the conversation from there.

[LadyGlutter]

I am not entirely sure I understand the options given either, Chris. I'm also not sure that your awesome vocabulary is the source of my confusion.

I prefer to meet folks somehow or another, myself, in character. The rest of the logistics I leave in your hands, but yes there's pros and cons every which way. I just think it's implying too much to say, yeah, we're hanging together. And having been in the position of the one who was murdered shortly after I made a stellar first impression (and it wasn't LightBringer), I still feel that way.

[Chris Chandler]

How about this. I've got a common reason for the four of you arriving on Athas as part of the campaign introduction. I could take two steps back with this prelude and actually have introductory threads for each individual. Each vignette would then be a sort of introduction of the character into the campaign, but not in regard to the other characters. Once those are resolved we could move into the prelude, where the characters have reached their point of common ground, so to speak.

In fact, I think a portion of solo play would be largely appropriate for each one of the characters involved. What do you think?

[Doombot]

Bitchin'. Let's see what comes out, eh?

[LadyGlutter]

Bring it.

[LightBringer]

Sounds good.

[Chris Chandler]

And Mad Dog is strangely quiet... I'll begin once I'm sure characters are ready to go.

[MadDogMaddux]

Sorry, I was out of town and didn't know I needed to fill an "Out of Town Form" at this stage.

I dig the solo thread intros.

And I still need to spend about 1 Million gp before I'm ready.

Hopefully I can have that taken care of by Monday, but this weekend is the 4th, and the 5th is my Birthday so I may or may not be otherwise occupied.

I'll do my best, but I'd rather not dive into this with half my gear, y'know?


Chris, would you PM me and let me know any areas of my character that need more fleshing out? I know I haven't written much on personality, for instance.

[MadDogMaddux]

Oh, and if you've EDITED anything on the big thread up top, I've not read it since June 15th's changes.

[Doombot]

A million gold, huh? What item slots do you still need to fill? I'd look at things that could possibly screw up your character, or open slots you could use to amp him up even more. A Ring of Freedom of Movement, for example. Sure, you probably won't be grappled too often, but paralyzed? Hold Monster? Etc?

There are some nice epic items too, and they can help you get rid of some of that otherwise useless gold. How about a ring of weaponbreaking? DR 15/Adamantine, and any weapon that hits you has to make a save or be destroyed?

Note that you don't have to listen to anything that I say, I'm just throwing out ideas in the hopes that they'll spark some other ideas that you'll be happier with.

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, I was just messin' with you Maddog. ;) If you aren't ready, it's no big deal. You have a great big ol' backstory - that definitely counts toward some personality. Besides, personality is what comes out during play.

As far as magic goodies go, Doom has a few good suggestions (Ring of Freedom of Movement is a valuable tank-saver). The Mantle of Great Stealth fits well with your character. A Ring of Virtuous Good, likewise, might be a good fit.

The individual threads looks like a winner, so I'll get those started.

[MadDogMaddux]

are all of those in the MIC?

[Doombot]

If not, they're all on the SRD (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/www.d20srd.org) online.

[Chris Chandler]

I... don't think any of those are. The ring of Freedom of Movement is in the DMG. All the others are in the Epic Level Handbook, which means they're represented in the SRD.

[LightBringer]

Here a question for you MadDog, just to fill my curiousity.

Do you have all the items and things that you originally planned and pictured your character having, and you are just trying to spend the mil on extra items?

[MadDogMaddux]

Neither actually. I still want to buy a secondary weapon, and a few other gizmos, and I think I AM actually short a ring. *shrug*

[LightBringer]

Sounds good, although, aren't you naturally your own weapon! Lol :fun: