[CRC] Challenge Rating... Challenge? Discussion

[Linklegacy77]

Feel free to discuss the challenge here.

Ask any questions you have here, and feel free to voice any concerns.

Do not hesitate if you have any questions regarding the legality of another character, merely post here. I'll trust that nobody will be a jerk about this, and that everyone will treat such an inquisition as a genuine concern and not an attack. We're all (well, mostly) mature gamers here.

[Tashalar]

Yeeeeha! Here we come... the band of 20th level heroes to bring down whatever foes our belovèd DM confronts us with. :)


A suggestion concerning the posting of character sheets:
Obviously those that post last can benefit from the information supplied by those that post first. This would mean that it is tactically wise to wait just before the due date to post your character.
I don't like this scenario as this means that many will simply wait and some will have an advantage over others. My suggestion would be to set two due dates. The first is for everyone who wants to participate to post their character. Then you could give everyone a chance to look at everyone elses characters and change minor things should they see something interesting.

Normally this should be a challenge where everyone enters a character 'all by themselves' - but this would give everyone the same chance while allowing some copying. Not an ideal way but a better way than giving some an advantage over others imo. Furthermore, I think most will agree that studying posted sheets and adapting one's own is a valid tactic while adjusting it when it's posted (concerning my proposed procedure) to copy tricks of another is frowned upon and will not be done.

Other than that, it would be helpful to update the rules according to some rulings you made in answer to questions:
E. Since many creatures, larger dragons with poor or clumsy maneuverability who have to maintain a forward speed in particular, may need to be entering and leaving the arena, I'd say to only count it if the foe both begins and ends that round with at least half its space outside the arena.
No custom-made items other than potions, wands and spells created with the rules described in the DMG.This line should include staves (restricting 'custom-made' to spells).
Banned: Gate (along with all items which cast it), Mnemonic Enhancer, Leadership feat, extra-dimensional travel (etherealness, plane shift, teleport)Teleport is now allowed - even though extra-dimensional travel longer than one round still means a loss for leaving the arena.

The arena will be a square area of the dimensions 100’x100’ and flight is allowed up to a height of 500’.I think you ruled that the arena goes as deep as 100' below ground.
In case of an underground setting you ruled that the ceiling is still 500' high.
I didn't find the ruling you made on how an underwater setting works. I think you said the characters would start floating on the surface?

Okay, that's all I found except what I asked/suggested in this (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291759&postcount=139)post.

[Linklegacy77]

Actually, I think you should just look at the rules in the other thread, it's all there. Somehow, I doubt it's a good idea to replicate that much text.

[Tashalar]

Most things will only mean an increase of a few words or a line of text. I purposely left out all the rulings you made on spells such as Resilient Sphere and others.

I do think that all information about the arena should be in the rules though.

Additionally, I'm rather curious as to what you think about my suggestion and on the matter of information in battle and the knowledge checks which I linked. There's no hurry concerning either of these though. :)

[Lord Twig]

I personally think that it should be fine to post a character and then make any changes you wanted to that character up until the time that sign ups close. After that there should be a period of time where everyone can check the characters for errors.

I don't think it would be fair to lock a player into a certain character just because he posted it first. Regardless I will probably go ahead an post my character later today, after I have given it one more check for accuracy.

As for the rules listed at the top of the sign up thread, they should at least be accurate, but by no means need to be complete.

So maybe remove Teleport as a banned spell, change "spells" to "staves" in the custom item rule and that should be about it. Of course if you want to add more, that would be welcome also. :)

[Lord Twig]

Quick question: The rules say one-use magic items cost double (including ammunition). What about non-magic ammunition, do they cost double as well?

[Tashalar]

I think it's meant as one-use items... but seriously - what do you have in mind?
1 gp per 20 arrows vs. 2 gp per 20 arrows? Doesn't seem to make a lot of difference if you ask me... but maybe you are just trying to do it correctly on the first try! :)

After that there should be a period of time where everyone can check the characters for errors.
Agreed - but my suggestion is that everyone may adjust their characters slightly before that step again as well.

[Lord Twig]

Arrows are cheap. Adamant arrows are a bit more expensive. ;)

[Linklegacy77]

Ammunition is a one-use item. Each arrow is separate, so yes, it costs double.

[Doombot]

What about magic ability-enhancing tomes? Technically they're one use, since only one person can use them, but they're effectively a permanent item: they cause a permanent increase to stats.

It's the Helm of Opposite Alignment argument -- you can only use it once, but I wouldn't consider a single-use item, like scrolls and potions, because it's entirely different in nature.

[Lord Twig]

I'm pretty sure the manuals and tomes are regular price. They are already very expensive!

[Linklegacy77]

Yes, those such tomes are regular price.

[Lord Twig]

We have our two Celestials up now. :cool:

Doombot: I'm pretty sure the bonuses to your AC and saves from your protection form evil won't stack with your ring and cloak.

Also, Outsiders do not have proficiency with armor or shields, so you would have to subtract your Armor Check Penalty from your attack rolls and some other skills. :(

[Doombot]

Booo! I was thinking all outsiders had proficiency with armor. I'll have to check and see what my ACP is; if it's small enough, I might just suck it up. If not, is it possible to get Bracers of Armor enchanted with these enchantments? I remember reading somewhere (Arms and Armor 3.0 splatbook I think) that you can get your bracers enchanted as though they were armor, and it went up to +13 total (a +8 set of bracers with up to +5 of enchantment, for example) as though they were a suit of armor. Is this still allowable, or do I need to tweak my character some more?

[Lord Twig]

I don't think you can enchant bracers of armor, but you can use a mithral chain shirt. It has an armor check penalty of 0 and is only one less AC. That's what I did. ;)

If you keep what you have the mithral chain mail is -2 and your shield is another -1. If you make your shield mithral it will get rid of that.

Edit: I just checked and you can switch to a mithral breastplate for 50gp more and it would only have a -1 penalty with the same AC.

[Lord Twig]

How are we doing HPs? I notice that Doombot and I came up with different numbers, but we should have the same. I used the RPGA standard of max HP at 1st then Max/2+1 for every additional die. So that would be 8+55+120=183.

Doombot did you use max first die plus average after that? So 8+49+120=177.

[Tashalar]

I thought it was /2+1...

When looking over your sheets, I immediately wondered about the chain mail as well - but I did not know that outsiders have no proficiency with armor or shields...
Why not go for a mithril chain shirt and get gloves of Dex +4 and an ioun stone of strength +2 instead of the gauntlets? No idea, whether or not you have 20k to spare though, Doom.

Actually I don't think that you need a higher AC... but higher Dex is great for a higher initiative.. and touch AC isn't that good.

Seeing the power and effectiveness of the adventuring group’s items Celina decided she would not make the same mistakes twice.My first thought when I read this was that she'd killed the adventurers to get the items for herself! :roll:

[Lord Twig]

My first thought when I read this was that she'd killed the adventurers to get the items for herself! :roll:

Well you certainly are no Angel! ;)

[Tashalar]

Oh noez! You have reveiled my true identity!!

... hm... actually I should roll up some kind of devil to contest your goody-goody types. I'd actually do that if a second character was allowed. :)

[Tashalar]

I wanted to sit down and work... but posted characters are too much of a lure... and with the Charisma they have... how can I resist? :roll:

LT:
AC should be 45 (Dex bonus is +8) - and maybe add touch AC for easy reference

Doom:
Cost for animated steel shield is only 16170 gp
Fortitude: +25 (+8 outsider + 10 Con +1 luck +1 competence +5 resistance)
Reflex: +19 (+8 +4 Dex +1 luck +1 comp +5 resis)
Will: +19
Where did you get the additional +4 from?

[Lord Twig]

LT:
AC should be 45 (Dex bonus is +8) - and maybe add touch AC for easy reference.

Mithral Chain Shirt limits me to +6 Dex. Also I swapped out the AC Ioun stone for an upgraded version, so no more insight bonus to AC. So that makes it 42, or 46 against Evil or when I get my Holy Aura up. Which I think is pretty respectable.

I will add touch and flat-footed, but with Uncanny Dodge the latter shouldn't happen too often. ;)

[Doombot]

LT: Yes, I did average HP. I don't recall reading how we're going to do them, so I figured that would be it; I'll change that to match yours.

Tash: Mis-added my base racial saves when figuring them.

All criticisms duly noted: thanks you two. I'll have to change that sometime this afternoon. Poke me again if I seem to totally neglect my sheet.

[Lord Twig]

Magik: Couple things I noticed.

Kul's Str should only (only?) be 46. :O

Half Dragon increases your HD by one step, so your d8 would turn into a d10, not a d12. So HPs should be 10+30 (HD) +7 (Barb) +24 (Fighter) +5 (Ranger) +120 (Con)=196

Also, your Animated Heavy Steel Shield will give a -2 penalty to your attacks and all Str and Dex skills because you are not proficient with it. You can fix that by making it Mithral. ;)

[Lord Twig]

I noticed we have a couple animated shields in use. I believe it was ruled that energy weapons would start each round deactivated and have to be activated with a standard action each time. So I would assume the same would go for animated shields.

The question is, what happens to an animated shield when you defeat your challenge? Does it get teleported back with you to your starting location and then drop to the ground? Or does a character have a chance to take it back in hand?

[Tashalar]

Yes, I specifically asked about animated shields and they 'switched off' after the round. What I would hope would happen is that the shield appears right next to the character at the starting position and can be grabbed... ie: it is held when the next round starts.

You then need either a move action to ready it or a standard action to animate it. Not great, but fine I guess.

Why would it give an attack penalty for the troll though, LT? The troll has levels in fighter so he should be fine using a shield imo.

[Lord Twig]

Why would it give an attack penalty for the troll though, LT? The troll has levels in fighter so he should be fine using a shield imo.

Doh! Of course he is. :P

[Tashalar]

Okay, I looked through the list of those that have posted interest in this challenge so far... of those that have posted interest, Doombot, Lord Twig and Majik have posted their characters so far. :)

Other than that:
elmer_jok (maybe)
Grognard
Icebird
omni-roach
SinbadEV
Chris Chandler
SlagMortar
Boomlaor
Biffoniacus Furious
Thanos
LeadPal (if the challenge takes a little while longer to start)
absolution
Junkie

I guess we'll end up with at least 10 players. A good number... but quite a work load for Link. At least it's fun work. :roll:

[Boomlaor]

Going out of town for a funeral this weekend. I should get my character posted on Monday.

[Tashalar]

Can we expect the pixie druid you promised?

[Boomlaor]

Yeah. I'm sorely tempted by the bearded devil blackguard, but the Pixie is further along, so I'll stick with it.

[Tashalar]

Aww... a devil would be awesome with the two goody-goody types, but I've been expectantly waiting for the pixie as well. :)

Edit: Bearded devil... actually I'd have expected Doom to make such a character for obvious, beardy reason.

[Icebird]

I'm still interested, and I'll probably post my character sometime this weekend. A good old +0 LA elf, to counteract all these strange races. ;)

[Linklegacy77]

Animated shields will return to their user's hands if they are active when the battle ends.

Hit points will be half+1 per hit die, max for the first.

So a d4 is 3, d6 is 4, d8 is 5, d10 is 6, and d12 is 7

[SlagMortar]

Well, my baseline character is up. Human barbarian 20. I probably missed something vitally important, but I guess I'll have to see.

[Tashalar]

Barbarian 20. Awesomeness. :)

Some remarks:
put the 245 as your hp first and the rest in parentheses
you already added point blank bonuses in for all attacks with the longbow
you have one skill point left... spend it! You don't want to lose a match because you forgot to spend a point, eh? :P
jump mod should be +38 (23r +8str +4movement +2synergy +1comp)
spiked mithral breastplate should cost: 25k (+5) +200 (mw breastplate) +4k (mithral) +350 (mw armor spikes) = 29550 gold (I had it at 29850 first before I saw that special materials include the price for mw...)
price for comp. longbow (I might be getting this wrong): 430 gp (mw darkwood - 3lb=30 extra gp) + 800 (mighty +8) +98k (ench.) = 99230
price for adamantine light hammer: 8k (ench.) + 3k (adamantine) +1 (light hammer) = 11001 gp
you've listed the bag of holding twice (unless you want two?)Okay, nothing major as you can see... :ditsy:

Btw - I thought that insight bonuses to AC count for touch AC?

Edit: Okay, first part is up... items still need a little tweaking - as well as the spells. Plus, the pricing is... work. :?

[Doombot]

On the barbarian: Dissolving is not a Core weapon property. IIRC, the only enhancements of that nature (ie, elemental damage) in Core are Flaming, Frost, Shock, and Thundering, as well as the burst enchanments for each one.

Tash: You forgot your spells! You don't want to lose a match because you forgot to prepare your spells, do you?

[Tashalar]

Tash: You forgot your spells! You don't want to lose a match
because you forgot to prepare your spells, do you? Today 12:16
I didn't! :P

I just need a little more time...

[SlagMortar]

Thanks for looking him over guy.
Some remarks:
put the 245 as your hp first and the rest in parentheses
Good idea. Done.
you already added point blank bonuses in for all attacks with the longbow
Bow to hit is: +20 BAB +5 Dex +2 Competence from Greater Bracers of Archery +5 magic weapon +1 weapon focus = +33 (without point blank shot)
Damage is: 1d8 base +8 Str +5 magic weapon +1 Competence from Greater Bracers of Archery = +14 (without point blank shot)
you have one skill point left... spend it! You don't want to lose a match because you forgot to spend a point, eh? http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20cheerful.gif
One rank of intimidate it is. "Um, er, ah, boo! Be scared, ah, if it's not too much trouble."
jump mod should be +38 (23r +8str +4movement +2synergy +1comp)
I had it at that first, but then thought the armor put him at 30 feet movement, but since it is mithral it doesn't. So, you're right, thanks!
spiked mithral breastplate should cost: 25k (+5) +200 (mw breastplate) +4k (mithral) +350 (mw armor spikes) = 29550 gold (I had it at 29850 first before I saw that special materials include the price for mw...)
I had the mw armor spikes at 300, but 350 is correct. Thanks again.
price for comp. longbow (I might be getting this wrong): 430 gp (mw darkwood - 3lb=30 extra gp) + 800 (mighty +8) +98k (ench.) = 99230
This time I added 350 for masterwork. Thanks for catching it.
price for adamantine light hammer: 8k (ench.) + 3k (adamantine) +1 (light hammer) = 11001 gp
Same as above. This is like looking in the couch cushions and finding enough money to feed a family for a year. 20th level characters have way too much equipment.[/quote]
you've listed the bag of holding twice (unless you want two?)

I've got two on purpose. One for the ton of healing potions and one for the ton of arrows. He just better be careful not to get them confused. :)

On the barbarian: Dissolving is not a Core weapon property. IIRC, the only enhancements of that nature (ie, elemental damage) in Core are Flaming, Frost, Shock, and Thundering, as well as the burst enchanments for each one.
Ah, I didn't remember that one. Thanks! Though acid is so much nicer than flaming or frost. Hmm. I guess I'll go frost.

[Linklegacy77]

You can't keep arrows in a bag of holding.


If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined.

This highly suggests that putting sharp pointy objects in a bag of holding is a really bad idea.

[Tashalar]

This highly suggests that putting sharp pointy objects in a bag of holding is a really bad idea.Hm... what about the efficient quiver and filling all compartments with arrows?

Or... the compartment where bows/javelins can be kept with more quivers? Would that work?

Greater Bracers of Archery Forgot all about those.

"Um, er, ah, boo! Be scared, ah, if it's not too much trouble."*nods slowly* Now Attila is ready... and he'll scare his opponent shitless.

This is like looking in the couch cushions and finding enough money to feed a family for a year. 20th level characters have way too much equipment.So true... and pricing everything correctly is... work. Simple as that. ;)

Ah, I didn't remember that one. Thanks! Though acid is so much nicer than flaming or frost. Hmm. I guess I'll go frost.Sure about this? I don't think extra damage is what you really need with the bow... even with high DR you'll deal enough damage to bring your foes down. You could spend the 50k on something else... (not sure what right now, though) :)

Edit: Oh, and I've updated Mr. Red Wizard a little... I'm not yet quite satisfied - and the costs and prices have not all been accounted for (spells for instance), but I've checked if I have all spells that I need for crafting on my list.

[SlagMortar]

You can't keep arrows in a bag of holding.
Not even if the arrows are in quivers? I meant for him to have a bag of holding full of quivers of arrows and then when he is running low he can reach in and pull out a new quiver.

Sure about this? I don't think extra damage is what you really need with the bow... even with high DR you'll deal enough damage to bring your foes down. You could spend the 50k on something else... (not sure what right now, though) http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley%20-%20happy.gif
I need something to deal with swarms, and energy weapons are a pretty decent way to do that.

[Tashalar]

Not even if the arrows are in quivers?
NICE! :)

I need something to deal with swarms, and energy weapons are a pretty decent way to do that.
Damn. Swarms again. Right. Fireball does work, correct? Ah, maybe I should look up how to fight swarms finally.

[Linklegacy77]

Well, you could do that, just make sure to have some way that the arrows couldn't fall out fo the quivers or else *rip*.

Oh, and Tashalar? If you're gonna put a quiver of Ehlonna inside of a bag of holding, I don't want to be there when you do.

[Doombot]

I elect for Tashalar to fight a Cinder swarm. :evil:

[Tashalar]

Damn you, Doom... I'll need to take another spell then. ;)

Oh, and I would never put an extradimensional space into an extradimensional space, Link. Only a fool would.

...

Okay, I might be a fool... but I still wouldn't do it! :P

[omni-roach]

Looks like I need to start on my character now. I didn't realize that this finally got underway while I was on vacation. What monsters could one use for this competition? Anything with a LA?

[Doombot]

Can I have my trumpet-sword made out of adamantine if I so desire (and pay the additional fee)?

[Linklegacy77]

Uh... okay...

[Tashalar]

Anything with a LA?
Monstrous races and template are permitted – but only from the Monster Manual I and only those with a specified LA. No cloakers, for example.
Read the rules, omni. :P

[Linklegacy77]

The only reason I put up with the ridiculous amounts of questions that Tashalar asks me is that once he's done, he answers questions for me if the answer is clear.

Saves me work in the long run.

[Majik]

Magik: Couple things I noticed.

Kul's Str should only (only?) be 46.

Half Dragon increases your HD by one step, so your d8 would turn into a d10, not a d12. So HPs should be 10+30 (HD) +7 (Barb) +24 (Fighter) +5 (Ranger) +120 (Con)=196

Thank you, Lord Twig.

I've updated the sheet and added attack and damage. Will finalize items soon(ish).

[Tashalar]

The only reason I put up with the ridiculous amounts of questions that Tashalar asks me is that once he's done, he answers questions for me if the answer is clear.

Saves me work in the long run.
Aaaah... nice work in trying to keep up the facade of cool, level-headed, in-control DM while actually being quite the emotional type who really, really likes me!! :P

Yeah... whatever. Glad to be of help. ;)

[SlagMortar]

Doombot, I don't think the monk's belt give you any AC bonus if you are using armor or a shield, since it says the AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus.

[Linklegacy77]

Actually, this is incorrect. It states that it gives you the same bonuses as the monks belt, but does not specify the same restrictions.

The monk's belt stacks with armor etc., as I understand it.

[SlagMortar]

I interpret the clause "This AC bonus functions just like the monk's AC bonus" to include the restrictions.

For reference.

Belt, Monk’s: This simple rope belt, when wrapped around a character’s waist, confers great ability in unarmed combat. The wearer’s AC and unarmed damage is treated as a monk of five levels higher. If donned by a character with the Stunning Fist feat, the belt lets her make one additional stunning attack per day. If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.


It doesn't affect my character and I don't have any expectation of winning with my Barbarian so I won't argue the ruling further.

[omni-roach]

So why get it in the first place? Why not spend the gold on something that may help you out and actually win? With that kind of attitude, you won't win anything!

[SlagMortar]

So why get it in the first place? Why not spend the gold on something that may help you out and actually win? With that kind of attitude, you won't win anything!
Um, what? The ruling on the monk's belt doesn't affect my character because my character doesn't have a monk's belt - Doombot's character does. I just built my character to see how far a single-class barbarian could make it in the tournament so I don't feel like my barbarian is competing with Doombot's character so if Doombot's character benefits from a ruling of Link's that I disagree with, then so be it. I just thought I would point out the rule.

[Linklegacy77]

Hmmm, you might be right. My dislexia strikes again.

Monk's belt bonus to AC applies only with no armor.

[Icebird]

Well, my monster of a submission is done. Almost - I just have to put it into an internet friendly format and check for errors. Perhaps it'll be up tomorrow evening...

In spite of my previous claim to be making a monk, I've in fact gone with a Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster. That was a lot of skill points to spend on a lot of useful skills. ;)

[Tashalar]

Monk's belt bonus to AC applies only with no armor.I'm sure Biff would argue for a different ruling... :roll:

[omni-roach]

Um, what? The ruling on the monk's belt doesn't affect my character because my character doesn't have a monk's belt - Doombot's character does. I just built my character to see how far a single-class barbarian could make it in the tournament so I don't feel like my barbarian is competing with Doombot's character so if Doombot's character benefits from a ruling of Link's that I disagree with, then so be it. I just thought I would point out the rule.

I'm sorry, I must have read it wrong. I thought you were the one with the belt. I'm going to have to pay more attention to what I'm reading and not throw a little post together when I should be sleeping...

[Boomlaor]

Right, so I didn't get it done on Monday. I should post it today, after I get caught up.

[Icebird]

Well, here goes my first shot. Please let me know what I did wrong. ;)

[Lord Twig]

Didn't actually check, but for spell casters, make sure you buy any expensive components and/or focuses! :)

[Doombot]

Whoa! Did you mean to go Sorc instead of Wiz for your Arcane Trickster? It looks like you totally gimped Int and buffed up Cha, so I can only assume that's what you meant to do. Otherwise, you'll have to take all those spells of 5th level and higher off your list -- you only have 14 Int.

[Tashalar]

Didn't actually check, but for spell casters, make sure you buy any expensive components and/or focuses!
Something that counts for me as well. :)

But I'll probably only get around to finalizing my character after the 17th - the day of my upcoming exam.

[Icebird]

Whoops. Yup, I did mean Sorcerer. Good catch - he was originally a wizard, but I changed it at the last minute. Guess I didn't change it everywhere. And I just noticed a lot more places where I messed up... no more comments for a few minutes please. :roll:

He knows nothing with an expensive component, so nothing to worry about there.

[Tashalar]

Whoops. Yup, I did mean Sorcerer. Good catch - he was originally a wizard, but I changed it at the last minute.
Well, you need to check the prerequisites of archmage again, Icebird. You need a few more 5th level spells - and you can never get the 5 spells 'known' that you need to qualify for archmage.

So it's either wizard/archmage or sorcerer/something else. :?

[Icebird]

5th level or higher, it says. But I noticed I messed up many things at the same time. I'm fixing them soon.

[Lord Twig]

He knows nothing with an expensive component, so nothing to worry about there.

You have True Seeing listed, which requires an ointment that costs 250gp per use. Since it is one use, that means it will cost you 500gp for this challenge. I didn't check anything else, but I did just go and look up True Seeing. ;)

[Icebird]

Arg, I guess I didn't check carefully enough. I'll buy a few ointments with his lunch money.

[Lord Twig]

Interesting monster list. Were you going to include anything from the Monster Manual?

[Tashalar]

Really interesting... I hardly know anything of any of these monsters.

From the sound of the names, quite a few demons, devils and the like. But I could be wrong... ;)

[Linklegacy77]

Of course! Almost all the monsters from books I own will be up there eventually, I just took all the books I have with monsters, put them in a neat stack, and am doing one at a time. I just haven't reached the monster manuals yet.

Fiend Folio is up there though.

[Tashalar]

Of course! Almost all the monsters from books I own will be up there eventually, I just took all the books I have with monsters, put them in a neat stack, and am doing one at a time. I just haven't reached the monster manuals yet.
Wait... so... you are putting up every monster there is? Or you skip just a few?

Woah! I need to make a little statistic in the end of how many are constructs/undead/swarms and the like...
There certainly will be quite a few demons/devils/undead judging by the books out there...

[Linklegacy77]

Oh, it just looks like that because I already put up Hordes of the Abyss and Tyrants of the Nine Hells. Don't expect demons and devils to make up a huge portion in the end.

There will be a lot of outsiders, but that's only because there are a lot of outsiders in general.

Trying to figure out ratios before it is complete is useless.

[Tashalar]

Agreed - I'll only do an estimate in the first place and only when you are done putting them up. :)

[Tashalar]

On shapechange:
Link, do you allow anyone who can use the spell in whatever way to shapechange into a pit fiend / balor (if HD / CL allow for it) or do they have to fulfill some kind of prerequisite? Knowledge skill or anything like it?

[Tashalar]

CR 58: Not dead yet!?!?!? I GIVE UP!
Lol... I likes! LOL

This... will be one hell of a monster list, Link. Have you decided whether or not it'll be the same monster for everyone or rolled separately for each? The work you are investing just sounds too much... work... if everyone faces the same monster.

[Thanos]

Character will be in tomorrow!

[Linklegacy77]

Well, for one thing, I just want to impress everyone with the sheer number of monsters I have to choose from to kill you all.

Moving on from that, I suspect that for the benefit of the contest itself, it would be better for each of you to face a separate monster at random, for various reasons.

I'm glad to hear that you haven't heard of a lot of them. This means my dice will have a good chance of sending a suprise at you.

[Thanos]

Surprises worry me not. Dragon's do though.....stupid breath weapons that can kill you in one shot!

[Tashalar]

This means my dice will have a good chance of sending a suprise at you.
Oh, perfectly fine with that. You could leave out all monsters from the MMs if you ask me... ;)

[Doombot]

Ok, in light of the monk's belt revelation (I'll still wait to see if Biff or anyone else argues it; I can't see any loopholes though), I've beefed up my shield and dropped the armor for Bracers of Armor.

Now, here's a question: according to the description, the bracers encompass the wearer's body in 'tangible, protective' force. RAW, this does not protect against touch attack of any sort. But I'm wondering, since it's a force and not a 'physical' barrier (ie, a sheet of metal, vis a vis a bunch of armor), would you rule that the bracers are effective against the touch attacks of incorporeal creatures, such as shadows?

[Tashalar]

Interesting idea, Doom. The armor comes from the mage armor spell which does protect against incorporeal touch attacks. The description would imply this as well. 'Tis would be rather nifty. I approve.

.... not that I have any say in the matter. :roll:

[Linklegacy77]

I will have to say that via fluff, yes, I would, but for the purposes here, we're sticking with the RAW.

Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus to AC. Incorporeal touch attacks ignore armor bonus to AC. Thus, incorporeal touch attacks ignore bracers of armor. Unless it is otherwise specified, which it is not here, armor bonuses just don't apply.

EDIT: Updated the list again. Only MM 1-5, Drow of the Underdark, Minatures Handbook, Dungeonscape, Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, and Complete Psionic to add now!

Should be about 500-600 more monsters to add.

[Tashalar]

Your crazy, man. :eek:

******
A staff is a weapon as well, hm? So it can be drawn as part of the move and could be drawn as a free action with quickdraw?

[Tashalar]

Icebird - I think you can wear one robe and one cloak - if you have the money to spare (heh), you could invest in a robe of the archmagi. You might drop the bracers of armor - then your AC drops by 3, but you get other nifty things - +4 to saves, a little SR and +2 to overcome SR. :)

[SlagMortar]

Ok, in light of the monk's belt revelation (I'll still wait to see if Biff or anyone else argues it; I can't see any loopholes though), I've beefed up my shield and dropped the armor for Bracers of Armor.
Unfortunately a shield also prevents the monk's AC bonus. I suppose it could be argued that an animated shield does not, but since an animated shield still imparts its armor check penalty to the user, I would rule that a monk can not use an animated shield either.

[Doombot]

I'm not a monk, and my shield is mithril, so it has no ACP.

[omni-roach]

Holy &%@#!

I didn't realize that there are any monsters above CR 30 let alone 57!

[SlagMortar]

I'm not a monk, and my shield is mithril, so it has no ACP.
Sorry I was unclear what I meant.
Here's the rule on the monk's AC bonus (emphasis added):
AC Bonus (Ex (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#extraordinaryAbilities))
When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).
These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks) or when the monk is flat-footed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#flatFooted). She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless), when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.
I think an animated shield counts as "carries a shield". Since the bonus AC from the monk's belt "functions just like" the monk's AC bonus, then an animated shield would cause the loss of the AC bonus provided by the monk's belt. Of course, it's up to Link if that's how he wants to do it.

[Doombot]

Ah, gotcha now. Hmmm. Link? Ruling, bitte schoen?

[Linklegacy77]

The phrase carrys a shield clearly, through intent, means to use a shield. All the animated ability does is prohibit it from taking a hand, it is still using a shield.

Sorry, but using a shield of any sort prohibits the monks belt.

Note that it is spell effects that end at the end of a round. Items that do not mimic a spell in any way will remain active. This will counter-act my previous ruling that you must reactivate fiery etc. enhancements upon your weapons every round.

Items that just grant a bonus that has nothing to do with a spell will not end. Only spell effects will end each round.

[Lord Twig]

I will have to say that via fluff, yes, I would, but for the purposes here, we're sticking with the RAW.

Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus to AC. Incorporeal touch attacks ignore armor bonus to AC. Thus, incorporeal touch attacks ignore bracers of armor. Unless it is otherwise specified, which it is not here, armor bonuses just don't apply.

Not in the most obvious spot, but it is in the rules that Bracers of Armor protect against incorporeal attacks. It is under the Special Abilities and Conditions section for Incorporeality.

The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability.

Edit: Oh, working off this ruling, I would assume that a Ring of Force Shield would work as well? :)

[Linklegacy77]

Okay, then the bracers do apply.

I will never know why they insist on placing such information in the least accessible and sensible of places.

[Tashalar]

I will never know why they insist on placing such information in the least accessible and sensible of places.
Yeah, this should have been mentioned in the bracer's description.

Ruling, bitte schoen?
Wait... I can help you out with this...

"Ruling, bitte schön?" :cool:

Note that it is spell effects that end at the end of a round. Items that do not mimic a spell in any way will remain active. This will counter-act my previous ruling that you must reactivate fiery etc. enhancements upon your weapons every round.

I like this ruling... a lot. My character doesn't care, but it was rather limiting on more damage-oriented characters as no one wants to spend tons of rounds activating fiery, frost, shock, animated, etc.

[Doombot]

Silly Tashalar and your ability to put an umlaut in without looking up a plethora of keystrokes. Verdammt!

[Doombot]

Ok, bracers and gloves and shield and armor and belt and everything have all been juggled a few times to achieve what is (I hope) a legal stance with almost 50 AC. Description fluff is in there too, but only because I was bored to tears this afternoon. Can anyone find RAW fault with it?

[Tashalar]

Yes.

...

Your initiative mod should be +12.

I'll edit here if I find more. :)

Didn't check exactly - but you cannot have gauntlets of ogre strength AND of dexterity. You'll have to buy an ioun stone - or update the sheet if you already have.

Uh.. wait. Now you're Dex mod is only +7? Then your AC should be lower and your initiative IS +11.

Checking your skills is WAY to difficult without you showing ranks and stuff... ;)

The mithril shield is more expensive... 49k for a +7 shield +1k for mithril => 50k.

Haughty and stern, Aziraphale takes it upon himself to judge those of lesser race, and mete out his judgment if they fail to live up to his exacting standards (an accomplishment which few are able to achieve).
Awesomeness. Sounds like Doom in Angel form.
Verdammt!! :P

[Doombot]

Thanks, I knew I forgot to update stuff some stuff, especially with items. Did I really have gauntlets, gloves, and a Str. ioun stone all at once? Criminey. Finals week must have really taken its toll.

And I'll try to get skills spelled out a little more explicitly. I switched one or two skills over to other class skills, and jsut applied new ability modifiers.

[Thanos]

I will be running a Stone Giant Monk with all kinds of fun toys.


I had a question though. Will the arena be walled off or just sectioned off? The reason I am asking is because if you grapple with an target and 'throw' them, you could get them outside the arena each time you did it if you were close enough to throw them outside of the zone. If there is a wall and the entire place is enclosed, then that is not a viable Strategy. I can get my character done once this question is answer. I didn't see if there was in the original posts, but I know the first was edited a few times.

[Linklegacy77]

It is walled off, but the wall isn't very high, only about 10 feet.

[Linklegacy77]

If you'll take a look at the monster list, you'll notice it is significantly larger now.

I just finished adding the monster manual 1. 4 more monster manuals to go until it is complete.

[Tashalar]

Gah! Too many dragons now!! :x-eyed:

Any idea when you'll want the challenge to start, Link? I don't think the HEC challenge will be over anytime soon... and since the gladiator tournament is more or less over, ORP needs some new sort of 'action'! :)

[Lune]

I should create a challenge for the sole purpose of creating NPCs for my F2F game. ;) Hrm...

[omni-roach]

So I've finally decided on playing a Hound Archon Paladin with an assload of fancy holy stuff. I'll try to get him posted by next week by the latest.

[Linklegacy77]

Okay, I'm setting a soft deadline of January 7th.

This should give you all plenty of time, and makes room for the holiday to, which can make gaming a pain.

And I'd be more worried about foes with save or die effects. If you face one, you've automatically got a 1 in 20 chance minimum of dying right then and there.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that I'm quite honestly hoping for your sucess.

It would be a complete waste of time if you all died out early or something like that. I'm looking for someone to get past cr 20! It won't be easy to get even that far, but I'm hoping someone will.

[Tashalar]

And I'd be more worried about foes with save or die effects. If you face one, you've automatically got a 1 in 20 chance minimum of dying right then and there.True enough... but I'd wager that everyone will bring a luck blade or two in the end just because of this. :)

Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that I'm quite honestly hoping for your sucess.

It would be a complete waste of time if you all died out early or something like that. I'm looking for someone to get past cr 20! It won't be easy to get even that far, but I'm hoping someone will.Here's to hoping that many of us succeed! The thing is... I can already feel a sense of 'corporate feeling' here because it's us against the monsters, really! Come on... we all need to get as far as possible.
My wizard... hrhm... he can go down quite soon if things go wrong... he might prevail a long time as well on the other hand. Winning initiative is rather important to him, really. :)

Due date 7th of January sounds good. There's still quite a few people who had shown interest but have not posted their character here:
elmer_jok (maybe), Grognard, omni-roach (is in the process of), SinbadEV, Chris Chandler, Boomlaor (pixie druid forthcoming!), Biffoniacus Furious, Thanos, LeadPal (probably not), absolution, Junkie (has vanished)

So... of the eleven players, my guess is we'll get another 6 at the most - which will make 12 contestants. A good number methinks. :)

[Tashalar]

I should be learning now, BUT:
As a little game until this gets started, I suggest we choose our favorite monsters for each CR (up to 20 I'd say - then there are simply too few), going by whatever you feel like... name, flavor, appearance, coolness...

CR1: Two-humped camel. Obvious choice.
CR2: Hippocampus. I think that existed already in 2nd edition and I always thought it is silly...
CR3: Hadozee First Mate. Going by name... what the hell is it? A seafaring race?!
CR4: Abyssal Eviscerator. For the sheer evilness I suspect this to present...
CR5: X-Y Energon. Whatever those are.
CR6: Very Young Silver DragonVoidwraith'Cause I really wanna know where Link got this one. :roll:

Okay, I'll update here when I take the next break. :)

[Doombot]

Here's a question I've been meaning to ask: are 4th level stat adjustments (ie, extra ability points at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th levels) already accounted for in monsters with LA and stat adjsutments, or do I need to figure those in as well? I've completely neglected to do so.

Also, was a concensus ever reached on IDing monsters based on HD?

[Tashalar]

My guess would be that you can still add three stat points - but I am unsure, Doom.

Also, was a concensus ever reached on IDing monsters based on HD?
Nothing yet - Link still has to proclaim whether he'll keep the rules as they are or adjust them. I'm curious about this as well, but it's not a pressing matter in my book. :)

[Linklegacy77]

I think we're going to use the standard system for identifying monsters, which should make it easier. This is not my final decision yet, but the one I'm most likely to make.

Yes, the points are included already.

[Tashalar]

I think we're going to use the standard system for identifying monsters, which should make it easier.
Agreed. I don't think it's a very good system, but it'll be easy to use at least.

I think it would make sense to let the first information be what kind of type the creature has... what do you think? There are some good infos to be gained from this - even though sometimes you'll know it before making a check regardless (read: contruct, plant, undead, dragons - those will be easily identifiable).

[Linklegacy77]

Well, easily identifiable in most cases, in some it is more a case of a monster posing as another creature....

But yes, I know what you mean.

[Tashalar]

Yeah, that would make sense for some monsters indeed...

But I'd guess that it'd be rare as they get as little time to prepare for battle as we do => 0 rounds, right? So... even changing shape would be an action we could observe.

Btw - after my exam tomorrow I'll rework my Red Wizard... especially the items need some tweaking. :)

[elmer_jok]

I'm still toying around with the idea. I'm just not sure I can compete next to all these big hitters. I'll give it some more thought and get back to ya'll.

[Linklegacy77]

Look, EJ, it doesn't have to be complicated to have a decent chance.

I suspect a level 20 human fighter would be a very effective choice here.

[Lord Twig]

I'll second that! We already have a level 20 human barbarian and he looks pretty tough. :)

Besides, you can enter just to see how far your character can get. It would be fun whether you win or not. And you may be surprised at how far you can go. :)

[elmer_jok]

True... January 7th was mentioned as what? The Final deadline for character entries?

[Linklegacy77]

And I have made a final decision: monsters will be randomly selected via a random generation program. Each player will fight different monsters. (Unless the same monster is selected more than once)

January 7th is a soft deadline. Try to get your characters done by then. If for some reason, there are a large number not done, it will be delayed. However, this is plenty of time. If most people are done by this point, it will begin.

[elmer_jok]

How does say... the diplomacy skill work. And, what would happen if you 'suggested' or somehow 'charmed' or 'fascinated' a creature into not attacking you? I don't recall this approach being brought up at all. I was considering the ever-hated bard. Most people tell me they suck and aren't useful at all at high levels. I'm wondering....

[Linklegacy77]

Diplomacy will be disregarded as an allowable skill to convince foes to ignore you.

Besides the fact that some foes will be immune, all foes will be treated as being in their nature to kill you for all purposes.

[elmer_jok]

So how exactly does LA work?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see what is up. HD + LA + Character levels can't add up to more than 20. What if in the monsters Advancement it specifies leveling up by HD rather than character class. Does this mean I can't do character classes? Is any monster with an LA available. I read through most of what I could find and found nothing answering these questions. Sorry if I'm just lost.

[Linklegacy77]

You take all the racial hit dice, and all the LA. If, when you are done with that, your total level is less than 20, then you can add class levels.

If your HD + LA is greater than 20, then you can't play the race.

If the race has a "-" in place of a LA number, you can't play the race.

[Tashalar]

So how exactly does LA work?
Look at the entries so far - there are three where HD/LA/levels play a role. That is... class levels only for the troll - for obvious reasons. ;)

[elmer_jok]

So, for example link... If the monster had a say, 5 LA and 4 racial HD I could add 11 levels even if in the monsters description it says advancement type by HD rather than by character class?

The example don't answer this question for me because all of their description depict character class as their advancement type. Now I know that if a monster has a HD based progression rather than a character class that it typically doesn't come attached with a LA, but there are some instances (namely one I'm considering playing.)

Can I only advance him per HD advancement as the MM suggests (or demands, I'm not sure what the RAW is on that) or can I add character levels (and therefore make something that isn't completely as the system intended it to be, or at least how I'm seeing it)?

Edit: Upon further inspection, the Angel and the Archon have advancement entries as per HD, but with the HD and LA they already add up to 20. There is an example though, the Hound Archon is listed as having HD advancement rather than class advancement, but then there's the example of the Hound Archon Hero.

This added to Links other statement pretty much answers it I'm assuming. I'll shut up now.

[elmer_jok]

So much for shutting up...

Diplomacy is out of the question as a skill. What about bardic abilities or charm and suggestion spells (I'm not sure without looking if the abilities are different than the spells and how much if so)? I also understand there's alot of monsters immune to these types of abilities, but... Look at charm suggestion...


You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable. Asking the creature to do some obviously harmful act automatically negates the effect of the spell.
The suggested course of activity can continue for the entire duration. If the suggested activity can be completed in a shorter time, the spell ends when the subject finishes what it was asked to do. You can instead specify conditions that will trigger a special activity during the duration. If the condition is not met before the spell duration expires, the activity is not performed.
A very reasonable suggestion causes the save to be made with a penalty (such as -1 or -2).
Would sitting quietly or walking out the arena be considered 'obviously harmful'?

Would this be a very reasonable suggestion?

And charm person...

This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person’s language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
Again... are these suicidal or harmful orders? If the opponent has an attitude as friendly then do I win?

Is the creature being threatened? If so it adds +5 to the save, but doesn't make it impossible.

If these (and the bards similar abilities) are not usuable it really puts not only the characters selections down but minimizes the effectiveness of alot of monsters that rely on these types of abilites (dryads, succubi, etc.) and therefore would drop there CR by all sense of the rules right?

I still don't agree with the banning of Gate and you theory of the 'continuous solar loop', but that's an argument I'll debate with you at another time. Unless...

[Tashalar]

Done with my exam - yay! Now ready to help out.

Answers:
So, for example link... If the monster had a say, 5 LA and 4 racial HD I could add 11 levels even if in the monsters description it says advancement type by HD rather than by character class?
Yes, you do not have to take HD but can take Core class levels - as you've found out by now.

Would sitting quietly or walking out the arena be considered 'obviously harmful'?
Just keep in mind that they are focussed on killing you and that they know they are not allowed outside the arena - this might count as 'harmful'.

Also keep in mind that Link has posted recently that the arena has a 10' wall of some sort... so monsters cannot easily walk out.

If these (and the bards similar abilities) are not usuable it really puts not only the characters selections down
The bard's abilities are definitely hampered in this setting... might not be the wisest choice - even though Mr. Charming would be nifty. I'll cross my fingers that you don't meet swarms, constructs, undead, oozes, plants, elementals, or vermin then. :)

[Linklegacy77]

The spell gate itself is broken in more ways than one, and not just because of the infinite solar angel loop.

Because it is based on hit dice = 2* caster level, one could summon a very powerful monster way out of proportion to a 9th level spell. With a scroll. More or less, you win the fight.

[Thanos]

I guess I am not sure on how the LA + HD things work. Isn't the LA already indicative of the HD and other things that the creature gets. The reason I ask is because it nerfs my character idea completely. I think a stone giant has a 4LA and 10 hit dice. That is 14 levels for a stinking 4LA race. Drow look much more attractive!

[Tashalar]

Too compensate for the powers of... uh... more powerful creatures, there is a combination of racial HD and level adjustements. There is no fixed ratio - but if you look at the creatures in the SRD/MMI, you'll see what I mean.

Most have a LA and racial HD. And yes... you'll have to take all 14 HD for stone giant and you'll only have 2 class levels (14 HD +4 LA) left over after that.

What did you think... be large size and get lots of nifty bonuses for only +4 LA? :P

[Lord Twig]

Drow do not have 14 extra HD, +11 Natual Armor and +30 to their stats.

[Thanos]

Yes, Tashalar, that is exactly what I thought was happening, which is why I went with Stone Giant instead of Archon or Drow. Now I have to redo the entire character.

[Tashalar]

Aw... what classes are you going for? My exam is over and I can help out in any way anytime. When I'm not sleeping. So... any questions... out with them! :)

[elmer_jok]

I see how it is broken via summoning such powerful creatures, but there is no infinite solar loop. It is a figment of all of your imaginations. I can only see it being done with very careful planning and research done before hand. I'll detail why in a whole entirely different post though so we don't clog up this thread with that.

What is your ruling about charm and suggestion and bardic abilities though? I'm sure it wouldn't be the most ideal build for this challenge, but it's still appealing unless charms and suggestions just don't work all-together.

[Linklegacy77]

Gate is broken for various other reasons as well, not just the infinite solar angel loop. Since it's based on hit dice, one could add any templates that did not increase hit dice to the monster in question when summoning it. Say, a paragon psuedonatural Gloom would be available to a 20th level summoner via the spell gate. (CR 60+ monster)

Plus, other monsters, such as the titan, can pull off the infinite loop. Titan has the spell like ability Gate 1/day. Gate in a titan. Command it to gate in another titan, and tell it to follow your orders. Continue.

Make them paragon titans, just for kicks. Now you've got an unending army of cr 36 creatuers.

Gate is broken. Period. End of Story.

[elmer_jok]

Every time I mention Gate you miss my other questions. I agree that it is broken... just not the 'infinite' loop theory.

[Linklegacy77]

I'm sorry, I don't see how it's wrong that you can create an unlimited number of titans here.

As for the charm etc.

The monsters you will be facing will be treated as if it's their natural state to try to kill you by the rules of the tournament. Anything that attempts to convince them otherwise will be treated as against their nature. If the effect would still work, then by all means try it.

[Lord Twig]

Tash: For your Red Wizard, I believe staffs are a double weapon, so making them master work costs 600gp.

Oh, he (or she?) needs a name. :)

[Tashalar]

Hm... double weapon - you are right. But can I not choose to make only one end masterwork? Or do I have to make both ends masterwork?

And... yeah. Name. Uh.... um... I wanted to keep that one a secret until the due date so that none of you can copy it!! ... yeah. :roll:

[Lord Twig]

Hm... double weapon - you are right. But can I not choose to make only one end masterwork? Or do I have to make both ends masterwork?

And... yeah. Name. Uh.... um... I wanted to keep that one a secret until the due date so that none of you can copy it!! ... yeah. :roll:

Personally I think it is silly to require you to pay double to make a masterwork staff, which is basically just a big stick, but I believe RAW is that you have to make both ends master work. On the other hand, in the rules for making magic staffs it only mentions paying 300gp. Maybe there is a difference between a staff and a quarterstaff? I guess we can leave it up to Link. ;)

As for a name, you could always just call him "Red". Maybe he has red hair? :)

[Linklegacy77]

If I really wanted to be a jerk, I could say that a staff is different than a quarterstaff, but only quarterstaffs are free.

Staffs cost 300 gold ^^

But that would be me being a jerk, wouldn't it?

Treat it as a quarterstaff.

[Tashalar]

Okay... yeah... um... staff. Quarter staff. As long as it works with the spells and all, I don't mind. ;)

As for a name, you could always just call him "Red". Maybe he has red hair?
AWESOME!!!

*goes off to edit sheet* :roll:

[Lord Twig]

So at last we have our Pixie Druid. :)

Won't make any comments as it is obviously still a rough draft. :)

[Boomlaor]

Yeah, I plan to finalize it today. I figured that posting up something in that unfinished of a state would motivate me to git 'er done.

[Tashalar]

Awesomeness. :)

[Tashalar]

Icebird - I think you need the craft staff feat to make the staff you listed.

I haven't checked the rules on UMD either - but make sure your character can actually use a cleric staff.


Happy challenging New Year everyone! :)

[Icebird]

I have to craft my own custom staffs? I thought we could just buy them for the full cost listed. If not, that'll change my sheet a bit...

And I couldn't find whether or not I could use a cleric staff in any of the rules, but Use Magic Device at +27 ought to do the job eitherway. ;)

[Boomlaor]

Ok, finally calculated out my combat stats and my animal companion. I think it's finished enough to start taking comments. Likely there will be some mistakes.

[Linklegacy77]

You do not need to have the craft staff feat to craft your own staff, you simply must pay market value for the staff.

[Icebird]

So my sheet is good as is then - no changes needed on that account, since market value is what I paid. I look forward to using sneak attack with harm on the poor unsuspecting goblin 1st round, just 'cause I can. :)

[Lord Twig]

Ok, finally calculated out my combat stats and my animal companion. I think it's finished enough to start taking comments. Likely there will be some mistakes.

Well this can't be right:
Hit Dice: 13d8 + 8 + 3 = 33

I think it would be:
Hit Dice: 13d8(68) + 52 = 120

Also, did you want to buy any equipment for you animal companion? Even some pretty cheap stuff can enhance your animal quite a bit.

[Boomlaor]

Can they wear stat enhancing gear? I had never even considered that. Good catch on the HP.

[Linklegacy77]

Yes, but only if it can reasonably fit the animal.

Since the rules ban putting the stat enhancements on items other than those specified, you can't make a collar of cats grace or anything like that.

[Lord Twig]

Amulet of health should work. I also used a belt of strength and a cloak of resistance before on a horse. Just called them a cinch strap and horse blanket respectively. I believe there is a section in the DMG that has suggestions for non-humanoid magic item use.

[Lord Twig]

Not much activity here recently. When was the deadline again? The 7th?

Anyway, I am starting to check characters for people. Please feel free to join in! :)

Doom, checked your character and found the following:

You list your Circle of Protection vs. Evil as adding +2 to AC and Saves, but it won't stack with your ring and cloak. Might want to make a note of that to prevent confusion.

I think your Aura of Menace DC should only be 23, not 25.

Saves:
I think should be the following, unless I am missing a +1 somewhere?
Fort: +24 - 8 base +10 Con +5 cloak +1 competence (+28 vs. poison)
Ref: +21 - 8 base +7 Dex +5 cloak +1 competence
Will: +18 - 8 base +4 Wis +5 cloak +1 competence

Attributes:
I think for Str instead of "gauntlets" you should list "enhancement", it is from your ioun stone I believe.

Feats and Skills look good, but you may want to include the +1 from your competence ioun stone.

Equipment:
Shield should be 50,020 - 49,000 enchantment +1,000 mithral, +20 shield
Bracers of Armor should be 64,000 - 8x8x1000=64,000
Total should be 758,770

Spells:
I believe you have your number of spells listed not including your domain spells. In that case you are missing one 1st level spell.

Also, just a note. Your +2 Str Ioun stone won't stack with your Bull Strength spell, so you will just get +2 out of it. Probably already knew that, but wanted to point it out.

[Lord Twig]

Just to share. I built an Assimar Paladin and an Elf Eldritch Knight just to do it. You can look at them here (http://games.cyberkeep.com/wiki/index.php?n=Misc.AssimarPaladin) and here (http://games.cyberkeep.com/wiki/index.php?n=Misc.ElfEldritchKnight).

Feel free to steal ideas. Also they may not be 100% accurate, just did them for fun after all. :)

Bonus points if you figure out where I got the paladin's horse's name. ;)

[Doombot]

Thanks, I'll look everything over again (although I probably won't be able to do so thoroughly until tomorrow night or Sunday).

You list your Circle of Protection vs. Evil as adding +2 to AC and Saves, but it won't stack with your ring and cloak. Might want to make a note of that to prevent confusion.

I think your Aura of Menace DC should only be 23, not 25.

IIRC, I have it noted, but it's not factored into the given AC/saves. And the Aura DC includes a +2 racial bonus that I probably forgot to list.

Thanks again, and I'll give it a more thorough going-over later. If I forget, poke me!

[Tashalar]

I have been in bed with fever the last three days and am slowly recovering. Maybe I'll feel well enough by tomorrow to finalize 'Red' and get a look at the other characters.

Let's see if we get a few more participants... and if Biff shows up. :P

[elmer_jok]

You can count on my character being one of the last minute participants. I'm just swamped with work right now, but I should be able to get it up by the 7th.

[Doombot]

Ok, tidied up my character as per LT's observations. Ready to rock n' roll.

[Darken]

Banned: Gate (along with all items which cast it), Mnemonic Enhancer, Leadership feat, extra-dimensional travel (etherealness, plane shift, teleport)Does this rule prohibit dimensional travel of the opponents? i.e., while the contestant is not allowed to use dimensional travel methods, can the contestant make use of spells and/or items that force his or her opponents into another plane, thus winning the encounter? For example, can I cast Planeshift on a monster to some random plane as per spell description? (Assuming it fails the will save and SR)

[elmer_jok]

Anyone know what the ruling on aging is in this challenge? I can't seem to find where I saw it mentioned. (honestly I did look)

[elmer_jok]

Good point Darken, also... is blink spell prohibited? It's not mentioned, but it is extra-dimensional, but is for just a split second at a time.

[Darken]

Also, Link, what is your rule regarding the spell Awaken's target? Are you using RAW or will you impose some restriction?

[Linklegacy77]

Blink is fine.

Yes, forcing the opponent from the arena is a valid combat tactic.

Awaken is fine as is, unless I'm missing something obvious. What did you have in mind?

[Darken]

I was referring to the fact Awaken, as per spell entry, targets "Animal" or "Plant" types, which a Druid or Wizard may gain via some sort of transformation spells. As the spell's duration is instantaneous and the bonus is untyped and unnamed, one can apply the spell multiple times and gaining a large amount of stackable permanent increase to HD and Charisma, which can then be used to power other feats/abilities. One can, in theory, spend any amount of exp above level 9 and dump into the spell, gaining 1160 additional HD (animal HD) and +1160 Charisma on average. I'd say having 5-digit HP and 4-digit saves/AC will guarantee wins until you run out of monsters.

[elmer_jok]

Awaken

Transmutation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#transmutation)

Level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level): Drd 5 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/druidSpells.htm#fifthLevelDruidSpells) Components (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components): V, S, DF, XP Casting Time (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime): 24 hours Range (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range): Touch Target (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#targetorTargets): Animal or tree touched Duration (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration): Instantaneous Saving Throw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow): Will negates Spell Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance): Yes You awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#will) (DC 10 + the animal’s current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened).
The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it.
An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm), except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6 (javascript:void(0);). An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human’s.
An awakened animal gets 3d6 (javascript:void(0);) Intelligence, +1d3 (javascript:void(0);) Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#magicalBeastType) (augmented (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#augmentedSubtype) animal). An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars), or special mount.
An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any).
XP Cost

250 XP.


24 hour casting time may pose a problem. Will you allow the spell to have been considered to have been cast prior to the combat?

[Darken]

If allowed, the spell would be cast prior to combat - as the character had already been casting it repeatly starting at level 9, and during the time it takes for the other characters to get to level 20.

[elmer_jok]

An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars), or special mount.

So you can't bring an awakened animal with you anyhow. I'm not seeing how you'd change your own type to animal, so I don't see how it'd apply to your character either.

[elmer_jok]

With the monks belt, does the monk's AC bonus refer to the bonus Wis modifier as well, or just the flat AC bonus. I just says it gets the monks bonus to AC and under the description of the monks AC bonus, it says both the WIS modifier and flat AC bonus.

[Darken]

I am referring to casting the spell on yourself, which is possible via type-changing spells with Awaken, depending on whether Link allows such (ab)use.

For Monk's Belt, I believe it's been ruled above that you will get the Wisdom bonus too.

[Lord Twig]

I think Darken is suggesting that you polymorph yourself into a bear or something like that and cast it on yourself. Of course this wouldn't work because the spell will "awaken a tree or animal to humanlike sentience". Since you already have humanlike sentience the spell would fail. The bonuses you get are side effects of being awakened.

I realize that Darken is only bringing this up so that it can be outlawed, so I know he did not intend to use it himself. But really anyone who would even try to use this would be the worst sort of munchkin. Taking the spell and reading it in a way that was not intended and distorting it to get an obscene advantage can be called nothing else.

[Darken]

Yeah, the problem with the spell is that by the description we can see the spirit of the rules, however by RAW, the "human-like sentience" part is flavor and is not considered when disputing game-mechanics. The hard fact is that the spell targets creatures with type "Animal" or "Plant", and several spells give you exactly that. My character does not make use of it, but I consider this loophole similiar to Gate and just don't want to see it pop out somewhere and give said constestant auto-win.

By the way, /signs up.

[Lord Twig]

Incense of Meditation: This small rectangular block of sweet smelling incense is visually indistinguishable from nonmagical incense until lit. When it is burning, the special fragrance and pearly-hued smoke of this special incense are recognizable by anyone making a DC 15 Spellcraft check.
When a divine spellcaster lights a block of incense of meditation and then spends 8 hours praying and meditating nearby, the incense enables him to prepare all his spells as though affected by the Maximize Spell feat. However, all the spells prepared in this way are at their normal level, not at three levels higher (as with the regular metamagic feat).
Each block of incense burns for 8 hours, and the effects persist for 24 hours.
Moderate enchantment; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, Maximize Spell, bless; Price 4,900 gp;Weight 1 lb.


Interesting. However that last part that I bolded suggests that after 24 hours your spells are no longer maximized, even if you did not use them. Since all effects are removed after each challenge, it is conceivable that the effect of the incense will be removed as well.

If that is not the case then the effect is still over-powered for the price (even at double price) and should be disallowed. This is similar to disallowing the Mnemonic Enhancer, which as already been banned along with Gate and some others.

[Darken]

Hmm I always thought the 24-hour duration refers to the window of opportunity where you can prepare spells and still have the benefit; i.e. if you use it (takes 8 hours to use), and do not prepare spells immediately, up to 24 hours can pass during which time you may prepare spell at any time to benefit from it. Since Clerics and other prepare-based casters can "leave slots open" to prepare later depending on situation.

[Lord Twig]

Hmm I always thought the 24-hour duration refers to the window of opportunity where you can prepare spells and still have the benefit; i.e. if you use it (takes 8 hours to use), and do not prepare spells immediately, up to 24 hours can pass during which time you may prepare spell at any time to benefit from it. Since Clerics and other prepare-based casters can "leave slots open" to prepare later depending on situation.

You could be right. It does make sense to read it that way. In which case it should just be banned for being over-powered. Sorry! Just my opinion. ;)

[Tashalar]

Oooooh, Darken has joined the fray - yay! This means that more monsters will fall before our gathered might! :nod:

The way you inted to use awaken automatically means a ban as per the spirit rules. Where would be the fun in it, eh?

Okay, I'll take a look at Skippy Billy now - the first cleric!

[Lord Twig]

Okay, I am really starting to wonder now Darken.

"Ability Focus (Spells)"? Do you really think that is legal? That would be stretching the rules pretty far. If it really did work that way why would they even have Spell Focus as a feat?

[Tashalar]

Some small things I noticed:
Bracer of Armor +8 64000
It should be 32000 gold - even though you might have calculated correctly... it's hard to say currently. ;)

Skill points:
By my calculations, your cleric only gets 23 skill points / ranks due to his intelligence being 10 via enhancement. He should therefore only get 1 skill point per level => 23.

You might be able to argue Ability focus (spells) working as you intend via the RAW, but that's a loophole as well imo.

[Darken]

Bracer of Armor's price has been calculated correctly but not displayed properly. I'll fix that now. The Int for Skippy was a mistake which I might have to juggle around some if there's sufficient time. I forgot about the new rule where you do not gain additional skill points via item enhancements.

Edit: Fixed Int problem by giving him more Int at start to simply the process so he can get 2 skill points per level.

[Tashalar]

Link - is the tentative due date (today at 11:59 pm I guess) the final due date or will you give a day or two longer?

[Linklegacy77]

yeah... uh... awaken is not allowed in such a fashion.

The way I read the incense, the spells are only maximized for 24 hours, and after that time, any spell you have not cast loses that benefit.

This item is overpowered for this contest and is against the spirit of the rules.

Ban stick!

Ability Focus (spells) is not permitted either.

You'll have some extra time to finish characters, and people will have a few more days to create characters if they wish.

[Darken]

I'll amend Skippy shortly.

Edit: Actually, before I do that, if the Incense of Meditation and Ability Focus (Spell) are already considered "broken", I want to get the OK on the following since I think they are more powerful than above and probably subtle enough so no one saw them yet:

-Dimensional Shackle on Skippy himself, and Skippy toss Portable Hole into a Bag of Holding near monster.

-Mirror of Opposition against opponents that use sights.

If these are not allowed either, I'll edit everything (if time allows) at once.

[Lord Twig]

The mirror of opposition costs 92,000 gold and is usable 4x per day. While powerful there are some drawbacks to using it.

1. It is too large to place in a bag of holding, you would have to carry it in your portable hole. Trying to get it out, set it up, then activate it while something powerful is attacking you is bound to be difficult. I figure it would take you about three rounds. Open the hole (Move Action, maybe Standard? It doesn't say), go in (Move Action) and pick up the Mirror (Move action), bring the mirror out (Move Action) and set it up (Move Action) and speak the command word (Standard Action). Also you would have to make sure that you are not carrying any Portable Holes or Bags of Holding when you go in to get the Mirror.

2. The creature can attempt to avoid looking at it, if it is smart enough to. I would rule it similar to avoiding a gaze attack. Maybe even easier since you would have to move the mirror to face it, which is harder than just looking at it.

3. Even if a duplicate does jump out and start pounding on the creature that doesn't mean that the creature has to stop to fight it. It can continue to pound on your little halfling instead.

All that said I'm not sure it fits the spirit of the rules. The idea is to see how long your character can last against these challenges, not to see how many you can take out with magic items.

I figured something was up with all the portable holes. I didn't look up the shackles to figure out what they did. Basically they just act as a dimensional anchor spell, so I don't see why they should be banned. Could be quite useful to prevent people from sending you to a different plane.

As for the Portable Hole in a Bag of Holding trick. It would work exactly as you say. It would create a Gate that would suck everything in 10' through it. Except yourself of course, because you would have a Dimensional Anchor on you. However since Gate has already been banned, using two items to create a Gate would also be banned.

Even if they were allowed using them in this fashion would make them essentially one-use items and would therefore cost double. Moot point since it is banned anyway. ;)

[Darken]

The reason why Gate is banned is due to its ability to call creatures more powerful than intended, not for its traveling capabilities. (Since making use of planar travel already give you auto-lose) I did ask Link above, and he did rule that forcing creature out of arena via dimensionally travel is a valid tactic, that's why I figure I'll prepare some of them against harder battles.

[Lord Twig]

The reason why Gate is banned is due to its ability to call creatures more powerful than intended, not for its traveling capabilities. (Since making use of planar travel already give you auto-lose) I did ask Link above, and he did rule that forcing creature out of arena via dimensionally travel is a valid tactic, that's why I figure I'll prepare some of them against harder battles.

True, that is one reason why it is banned, but it is still banned, even if you just want to use it to move. Unless there was an exception somewhere I didn't see. Link has suggested that there were many reasons why he banned gate. You can find his comment here (http://online-roleplaying.com/forums/showpost.php?p=293733&postcount=130).

[Linklegacy77]

I'm going to allow the portable hole with bag of holding trick, for a couple reasons.

Primarily, how expensive it is, and if he has any items in either of them, they are lost. Also because he has to be within 10' of the enemy, and that's not a safe place to be for poor Skippy.

Just hope you don't get disjunctioned.

[Lord Twig]

Huh, okay. Should they cost double normal price since they are effectively one-use items?

How about the mirror? I actually see it as a bit of a headache for you, but not that big a deal really.

[Lord Twig]

Thanos, glad you can join us.

So what are the golem manuals for? Figure you will bring the inanimate bodies as "equipment" then sprinkle the ashes of the manuals on the body once inside to have a Greater Stone Golem and Iron Golem along to fight with you?

[SlagMortar]

Sorry for being the diametric opposite of proactive on this. My character is storing arrows in a bag of holding. You mentioned:
Well, you could do that, just make sure to have some way that the arrows couldn't fall out fo the quivers or else *rip*.
Do the quivers in a bag of holding need anything to hold them in? Since the inside of the bag of holding is another dimension, it seems the inside would not be jostled by running or jumping around so the quivers shouldn't really be any more likely (or probably less likely) to spill there arrows than a quiver wore outside the bag. If characters can fight and tumble and fly without arrows falling out of their quiver, is there anything more my character needs to do to secure the arrows?

Thanks.

I think that's the only thing remaining for my character. I must say that I'm excited to start. I expect my character to be felled somewhat fairly early on by a monster with an ability I didn't anticipate, but it ought to be fun to dominate the first couple of monsters. ;)

[Lord Twig]

Sorry for being the diametric opposite of proactive on this. My character is storing arrows in a bag of holding. You mentioned:

Do the quivers in a bag of holding need anything to hold them in? Since the inside of the bag of holding is another dimension, it seems the inside would not be jostled by running or jumping around so the quivers shouldn't really be any more likely (or probably less likely) to spill there arrows than a quiver wore outside the bag. If characters can fight and tumble and fly without arrows falling out of their quiver, is there anything more my character needs to do to secure the arrows?

Thanks.

I think that's the only thing remaining for my character. I must say that I'm excited to start. I expect my character to be felled somewhat fairly early on by a monster with an ability I didn't anticipate, but it ought to be fun to dominate the first couple of monsters. ;)

I wondered about the arrows in the bag of holding/haversack thing as well, since my character is doing the same thing. If needed I can just add a cover tied with some twine or something like that. No biggie, maybe just a little harder to get the arrows ready when needed.

Hear, hear! To the untimely demise of the low-level critters to come. I actually have a rather pleasant doom prepared for my first opponent. :cool:

[Linklegacy77]

No, they won't cost double, because even though they will be used in a manner similar to one-use, the fact remains that neither of them are one-use items, and it's merely an interaction between two items that causes this.

Mirror isn't a problem.

As long as your arrows are upside down and in quivers, don't worry about puncturing the bag. Just don't throw a bunch of arrows in there.

Remember, monsters aren't disqualified for 3 rounds. Some will have the ability to return to the arena if removed.

[Tashalar]

I think that's the only thing remaining for my character. I must say that I'm excited to start. I expect my character to be felled somewhat fairly early on by a monster with an ability I didn't anticipate, but it ought to be fun to dominate the first couple of monsters.
Ha! Seems like everyone is looking forward to this... I remember Icebird posting that he was looking forward to casting harm on the poor, unsuspecting CR 1 monster solely because he can! Harhar! :)

[Doombot]

Here's to sundering a goblin!

On another note, LT, I noticed you've changed your character's name, but not in the description. Or at least, that was the case two days ago when I last looked.

[Tashalar]

You'll need the feat improved sunder (goblinoid) for that, Doom!


Link - could you set a final date now? I think it'll work out better for everyone if you say Thursday or Friday or Monday and make it final now. Very curious as to whether or not Biff will actually show up btw.

And... I'll look over my character again tomorrow probably.

[Lord Twig]

Here's to sundering a goblin!

On another note, LT, I noticed you've changed your character's name, but not in the description. Or at least, that was the case two days ago when I last looked.

Fixed that yesterday. The first name was just a working name really.

[Linklegacy77]

Say, saturday.

I've actually had a few requests for extensions...

[elmer_jok]

Oh thank jebus for the extension. I was fearing that my last minute changes were gonna get me barred from the challenge. I'll definately be able to finish by saturday though.

[elmer_jok]

I see that one use items cost double, but is there also a rule about extradimensional holding items costing five times? I just noticed that on Darken's halfling it says,

Bag of Holding 2500 x5... and... Portable Hole 10000 x5, but for then there's this... Heward's Handy Haversack 2000

[Boomlaor]

He's buying 5 bags of holding and 5 portable holes.

[elmer_jok]

That was another possibility I had considered... I just didn't consider it likely... okay then.

[Tashalar]

Go, get your char done, elmer! I'm curious! Or... at least tell us what it's going to be! :)

[elmer_jok]

Okay... I won't mystify you any longer. I'll try and polish him off tonight and post... but here's a summary.

Middle-Aged Male Grey Elf Wizard3/Cleric3/MysticTheurge10/Archmage4

Satisfied?

[Beidamon]

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if its still possible to add a character if I was to get it done quickly? I just returned to playing DnD after a long absence and wanted to get started again, but I didn't see anything in the looking for more forum and this challenge looks very interesting. If so, let me know and I will post a character quickly. Just let me know if I accidentally do anything wrong as I haven't played with the 3.5 rules yet, but believe they are pretty much the same as 3.0.

If I am allowed to join, I had one question about the arena. All magic pretty much resets between the CR rounds, but what about permanent changes you make to the arena? If you dug a hole would it be there the entire game, same with raising a hill or other such things of that nature?

Thanks,
If there is still time and you will take me I look forward to this challenge.

[Linklegacy77]

The deadline isn't until this saturday, so you have until the end of the day to get a character up. I then plan on a week of review and fixes between players (I've had a few requests for this).

Any changes you make will reset, since the terrain will change based upon the foe.

[Beidamon]

Curses, sneaky tactic may not work...

What if you don't actually change the terrain itself but add something that you brought with you? Will that item persist by any chance?

*Trying to be sneaky*

[Lord Twig]

Are you perhaps thinking of Instant Fortress?

I believe it was stated that dropped items would remain in the arena where they were dropped. So theoretically it should work. However, if you plan to walk into the fortress and then take a nap for 8 hours to get back spells and things that, would be against the spirit of the rules and may be banned.

Final decision would be up to Link of course.

[Beidamon]

Since it is the DM's decision and it wont really matter if it was a surprise, it wasn't exactly a instant fortress I was thinking of, but instead filling up the arena with 10 feet of water (Since there is the 10 foot wall) using a decanter of endless water and hoping the water I create would stay for the rest of the matches.

[Lord Twig]

Well, even at 30 gallons per round, it would take a long time to fill up a 100'x100'x10' area.

[Beidamon]

Now that I look at it, it would take one of them about 5 days to fill up that area.... Darn sizes being surprisingly large!

Must find some other sneaky way to create large amounts of water then (If applicable)

[Boomlaor]

Hire 1000 low level druids to cast create water?

What? I'm just trying to be helpful. :)

[Beidamon]

You've never seen what happens when druids form a union have you?

*shudder*

[elmer_jok]

Talk about last minute entries... I'll have it in by midnight tonight.

*crosses his fingers*

Why do people have to wait till the last day to tell me about their birthday parties?

Also, a question... Do I receive my Wis modifier to AC from wearing a monk's belt?

REEDIT: I realize that I have entirely too much stuff to do to finish my character up, too much to accomplish before midnight... and I don't even have till midnight. I will not be able to compete in this challenge after all then it seems. Sorry about all the excitement build-up.

[Tashalar]

Hm... it does not seem that anyone who wanted an extension actually got a character in, did they?

Well, nine characters for Link to take care of. That's fine, I guess. :)


Edit: I have to travel the upcoming three days and don't know whether or not I'll have internet access. Please bear with me.

[Linklegacy77]

Nine characters is definately enough for me.

[Thanos]

Still doing little things, be done tomorrow morning.

[elmer_jok]

I have a very basic monk build that would only take me a little bit to finish up if you wanna make it an even 10. I just couldn't finish the other character cause I wasn't sure how I was to pay for spells in my wizards spellbook considering that most of my levels are from prestige classes. Do I still get the two bonus spells per lv like when leveling in wizard or is that only for wizard?

[Linklegacy77]

Go ahead if you'll be done soon.

And yes, as long as you gain another level of casting, you'd gain the two spells.

[Boomlaor]

Ok, I think my pixie is all set now.

[BigRedRod]

Beid's back? How strange. Although it's not surprising that he returns solely to powergame.

That sounded harsh, I don't mean to be.

[LeeCHeSSS]

Wow, Beidamon has returned. Now I definatly have to keep tabs on this challenge, since he has shown before that he is good at powergaming.

Anyway, with these rules, I think Boomlaor has a good chance to get far into this contest, as long as he plays his druid properly that is :)

[Tashalar]

Hm... seems like he is someone... special? :roll:

[LeeCHeSSS]

Without wanting to sound queer, but yes he is special...
He's actually the oldest member (besides myself) that has been recently active on ORP. Yes, even older than Ross :)

[Linklegacy77]

Yes, I had noticed that. He was the 9th member.

[Lord Twig]

Haven't really had time to go over all the entries. Just gave a quick glance at Kul and the only thing I found was that he needs to spend either 50 or 3,050 more gold for his spiked chain. (25x2 for being large if only the base weapon cost is doubled for being large, plus an extra 3,000 if he has to double the price of the adamant as well, which would kinda make sense.)

Will do more when I have time.

[Linklegacy77]

It is 3,050 more. Double the weapon cost, not counting magical enhancements. That includes materials.

[Tashalar]

When will you be starting, Link? I still need to make my choice which spells to memorize and make a final calculation/adjustment of Red's items.

As I am not too motivated to do this atm, a due date would help to force me out of my lethargy. ;)

He's actually the oldest member (besides myself) that has been recently active on ORP. Yes, even older than Ross
Oh, so it's something akin to an honor to be 'playing' (read: power gaming) alongside him? ;)

[Thanos]

Link,

I need to know how much normal incense might cost. My character is going to have several cubic feet of it, but I can not find a cost for it in the PHB even though its a required spell component.

And I am not power gaming. I think my character is the weakest out of all of them. I am gambling almost everything that my plan will work out. If it doesn't my character could lose very early!

[Linklegacy77]

If there is not a cost listed for the item, but it is a required component, assume it is a cheap component and is covered by a spell component pouch.

[Doombot]

If he needs a few cubic feet of incense, that's alot of spell component pouches.

[LeeCHeSSS]

If a spell component does not have a price listed, that means it costs less than 1 gp per appliance. How many appliances do you hope to get out of your several cubic feet of incense?

[Boomlaor]

I've looked through the spells which use incense as a component, and I can't figure out one which would work to an advantage with several cubic feet of incense. Since we're not competing directly against each other, would you mind appeasing my curiosity? What in the name of all that is holy (or unholy, depending on your character's alignment) do you plan to do with several cubic feet of incense?

[LeeCHeSSS]

Create smoke?

[Lord Twig]

I am curious about what a LOT of people are planning to do. It should be very interesting.

About the incense, maybe 1gp per pound? Shouldn't cost that much really.

[Lord Twig]

Atila:
Full Attack - Looks like copy/paste errors. Great sword listed twice, no forth attack for heavy mace, and bow attack without rapid shot still says dissolving.
Equipment - Bow still says dissolving
Why do you have potions of Mage Armor? Incorporeal attacks maybe?
Total I came up with was 759,983gp instead of 759,633gp
I just eyeballed the prices of potions and stuff and if it looked okay I didn't look it up. So I wouldn't say that this is authoritative.

Edit: Oh, the Attila of history is spelled Attila, with two t's. But that may have been your intentional spelling. ;)

[SlagMortar]

Thanks, LT!

Full Attack - Looks like copy/paste errors. Great sword listed twice, no forth attack for heavy mace, and bow attack without rapid shot still says dissolving.
Equipment - Bow still says dissolving
Fixed. I'm not sure what that full attack starting with +27 was. That's what a full attack of throwing would be, but he doesn't have anything he can throw as a full attack. *shrug*
Why do you have potions of Mage Armor? Incorporeal attacks maybe?
You guessed it. It's a unlikely they will actually prove useful, but they pretty cheap and it at least gives the option.
Total I cam up with was 759,983gp instead of 759,633gp
I had to go back to my Excel sheet for that one. I had the throwing hammer listed at 350 more than it should have been, but was right on my Excel sheet. I must have fixed it on the sheet and fixed the total, but missed the line item.
Edit: Oh, the Attila of history is spelled Attila, with two t's. But that may have been your intentional spelling.
Why, um, of course I knew that... uh, yeah. And I am totally not too lazy to have looked it up if I didn't know it. Definitely not.
thanks:)

[Thanos]

The incense is for the Censor of Air Elemental Control. Each time you summon an Elemental you have to have incense in the Censor. It doesn't list an amount, but does say that it is all used up. A few cubic feet of it (in a Heward's Handy Hoversack side pocket should suffice, I just wanted a price. If it was very expensive I would have to not get another item.

You shall all see my idiotic plan when things start. You might get a good idea if you look at my skills and 2 of my items!

[Majik]

Thanks for checking, Lord Twig. I will look over Kul again today or tomorrow and make the necessary adjustments. I am rather busy at the moment but I hope I will be able to update regularly enough...

... I just saw that Kul doesn't get the best bets as well! I will try my best to prove them wrong!


EDIT: Made some changes to feats, items, skills. Kul is ready to compete - and ready for the final check.

[Linklegacy77]

Just treat incense as a smokestick.

[Lord Twig]

The incense is for the Censor of Air Elemental Control. Each time you summon an Elemental you have to have incense in the Censor. It doesn't list an amount, but does say that it is all used up. A few cubic feet of it (in a Heward's Handy Hoversack side pocket should suffice, I just wanted a price. If it was very expensive I would have to not get another item.

You shall all see my idiotic plan when things start. You might get a good idea if you look at my skills and 2 of my items!

I have looked at the bottle, brazier, censor, stone before and totally missed that it was unlimited in the number of uses. Very nice! But, although you have several items to get multiple elementals out, I would think it would be difficult to get them all out, it will take some time. Your staffs of Wall of Stone and Time Stop could help with this of course.

As for your crazy plan, I've looked, but I still don't get it. You have Craft Wood and Metal for some reason and you have that Stone Golem Manual: Greater, but I still don't know how you figure you are going to get the Golem into the arena. My understanding was that you could only bring in what you could carry and only Animal Companions, Familiars and Special Mounts could accompany you. I would hardly consider a Golem an item. It is in the Monster Manual for a reason.

Unless you figure you will make the Golem after you get into the arena? A Wall of Stone could keep a CR1 creature out indefinitely and provide raw materials. Still feels like cheating though. :tsk:

[elmer_jok]

It does seem to go against the 'spirit of the rules' which is effectively against the rules. That is, if that is what your plan is. I couldn't see what else it could be though...

[Tashalar]

I don't see a golem helping that much, really. And the elementals are gone after each fight so no worries there either.

If the tactic includes delaying a day or more (to construct a golem), something is not quite right though. ;)

[Lord Twig]

I don't see a golem helping that much, really. And the elementals are gone after each fight so no worries there either.

If the tactic includes delaying a day or more (to construct a golem), something is not quite right though. ;)

A golem not useful? Well let's see...

Greater Stone Golem
Huge Construct
Hit Dice: 42d10+40 (271 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 27 (-2 size, -2 Dex, +21 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 27
Base Attack/Grapple: +31/+52
Attack: Slam +42 melee (4d8+13)
Full Attack: 2 slams +42 melee (4d8+13)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Slow
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +12, Will +14
Abilities: Str 37, Dex 7, Con -, Int -, Wis 11, Cha 1

So, 42 Hit die, 271 hp, +42 to attack for 4d8+13 damage, grapple +52, immune to magic, CR16. No, you are right, that wouldn't be helpful at all! [/sarcasm] ;)

[Tashalar]

Oh, a greater stone golem? I just thought of the normal golem types......

Definitely useful in that case, but:
Afaik, the monsters (if intelligent) will know who their opponent is and will concentrate their attacks on their main adversary. So... the golem might distract and cause a little damage, but otherwise the monsters won't be stopped. And if the monsters can fly, so much for the better.

But... you are right that the greater stone golem (CR 16) does help quite a lot. ;)
Now it just depends on how much gold he has/had to spend on the whole trick to see if it is worthwhile at all.

Oh, any date set for the start of this, Link?

[Linklegacy77]

Yes there is. The challenge begins tomorrow.

[Thanos]

IF creating the Golem during the battles is 'against the spirit of the challenge' then I can certainly spend the 44,000 GC on something other than the book. The Golem is useful in slowing things down.

[Linklegacy77]

Did you pay double the cost for the manual? Since the manual is a one-use item...

That's the only restriction I have on it. It's a pretty clever idea, and I can't ban all of those.

[Lord Twig]

It's good we are getting things started, but characters still need to be double checked.

Are you going to do an official check Link? Or is it up to the competitors to keep each other honest?