Peanut Gallery (OOC)

[Chris Chandler]

So... how's this for a start. I'll put the note on the gitp and we can start on this board, well, now! W00t!

Um... I'll put up an actual IC... something here by tomorrow so we can do... something.

[Dalcassius]

YEAH!! NEW OOC THREAD!! It's like freakin' Christmas 'round here!

[Chris Chandler]

I can only hope that you can continue view this page from work, Dal. Seriously, you are a big part of why I wanted to move this here. Your post time suggests so, so that's a good deal.

Okay, so this is what I'd like to see. I'm going to put stuff like maps (ha!), historical "documents" and a Q&A about the campaign up in the Campaign information section. I have my own little section so I can keep proper notes and whatnot. We'll have a main IC section, and we have the flexibility here to have various other IC sections whenever we need it. Likewise, if there is a specific OOC issue that needs to be brought up, we can have a separate thread for that, as well. I'll get to work on a "bridge" post shortly, then we can step fully over here.

Don't worry - I'll do my best to archive the gitp stuff and put it into PDFs. I actually have the older threads in that format. I... You know what? I'll put those up in the Campaign information section, as well.

[Ojoxsofeta]

We all live in a yellow submarine...

a yellow submarine...

a yellow submarine...

[Chris Chandler]

Or, y'know what, they could all be bigger than the 250K limit on file size. If you want them, just ask.

[LadyGlutter]

That is my concern, having backups to IC stuff. Could you forward me copies, pretty please? How'd you have to do it? In chunks or what? You know, if I turned Trillian on I could bug you like that couldn't I?

Edit:

You GOTTA go fix Turmishites. Somehow or another. Disable smilies in text. That's a different level of weird from Turmispoons. Is there a smiley for wombat? No? Hahahaha. I can say the f word, though I erased it. XD

Hmmmmmm, can I really say the f word? ...off to find rules of forum.... while I may be CN, I know our GM is stinking lawful....

YES! The only rules for language I see is no 1337. (Though somehow I want to post a whole bunch of 1337n355 right now but I'll refrain. ;-)) Freedom of speech rocks.

Don't worry, Zora's not a potty mouth, I'll be good(ish). I just wanted to know, you know?

[Dalcassius]

I'd love a copy of the IC threads. Thanks Chris.

[LadyGlutter]

So I remain confused. If I'm right, then I'm just going to wait because what I see is Kirfah is with me, Sharad, and Breena all at once. (!?) I have stuff I can do but I would make the plot a big fat knot by starting it. Unless Kirfah didn't come with the three of us to cure the little ones.

[Dalcassius]

Kirfah helped with the Brewing, then made a dash for home seeing as Brit, Hoylur, Zora, Guther and Agatah could handle the children and the cured adults. When he got home we started two time lines. One is with Bree, they are discussing the questions on Bree's mind, the other is slightly ahead of that where he left Bree after the discussion and finally had the sit down with Sharad he's wanted to do since his brother was put into a coma.

[LadyGlutter]

Awesome. That helps lots. Thanks.

[Dalcassius]

That's what I'm here for. Well, not really. I'm here to role-play, but I still like to help when I can.

[LadyGlutter]

Although Zora didn't hear that bit with your mamma, I like the idea of the war room, Dal. It's not too far contrived and might work some of these kinks I've got out.

(Back to pliés now. Why'd I get this nutty idea I needed to exercise?)

[Dalcassius]

Thanks, but its as much Chris's doing as mine. I was just sort of playing with the idea and he really pushed me into getting it done.

[Gamebird]

Hey, I'm here. Good stuffs.

[Gamebird]

GitP is down again, so if anything has happened there recently, I don't know about it. (Recently as in today, May 17.)

[LadyGlutter]

We're supposed to be playing here. Nothing's going on there. We're just waiting on everyone to check into the IC thread I'm pretty sure.

[Dalcassius]

Oh, this should be good. Zora is about to ask Hoylur to put Agatha to sleep with a spell. IF he says yes, she's gonna put up a fight. Most likely though I see a snappy comeback in Zora's future.

[LadyGlutter]

Yeah, well, my dumb ass got him dealing with folks with color spray and sleep mixed up. Grrrr

[Chris Chandler]

Eh, it happens. They have a similar affect among very weak creatures.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Yeah, yeah they do.

The thing about the sleep spell is that you can choose who to target. However, enchantments don't work on most undead and some other creatures, and elves have a lovely immunity to sleeep, deep slumber and their kindred.

Speaking of that, I need to come up with a code word or action for y'all to avert your eyes if possible - illusions are going to be a lot of my offensive output for a period of time.

(And before anyone says it, I should be adding more transmutations soon).

And Dal, when is a snappy comeback not on the horizon for anyone?

[Ojoxsofeta]

Also, has anyone seen anything about this yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance:_Dragons_of_Autumn_Twilight_%28movie%2 9

This is one of my favorite books that I hate to admit to looking that much (especially to those who don't get that "dungeons" game). Needless to say, I'm stoked.

[Dalcassius]

I do remember hearing about this and I'm hopeful that it means the second two books in the trilogy will be made too.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Jack Bauer as Raistlin. That's... an odd thought.

[LadyGlutter]

Kiefer will do just fine in that role I think. But Lucy Lawless and Michelle Trachtenburg and Michael Rosenbaum.... mmmmm, this looks like a YUMMY movie! Um... or something more appropriate, yay Dragonlance and stuff! :P

Actually I think that's weird, Dawn being Tika and Xena being Goldmoon, because it seems like Goldmoon's going to tower over Tika but I know some people see it that way anyway. Either way, hey, it sounds cool.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Well, I suppose I missed the part where it's animated. Which is less awesome, though I'd argue that D-lance probably would work better as a cartoon. The (voice) actors seem less strange.

[Chris Chandler]

This has been threatened for a number of years now, though I'm glad to see that it's finally reaching the about-to-do-it stage. I like the voice acting so far, but yeah... Jack Bauer is Raistlin. Maybe if I think of him as David from The Lost Boys...

[LadyGlutter]

Well, I suppose I missed the part where it's animated. Which is less awesome, though I'd argue that D-lance probably would work better as a cartoon. The (voice) actors seem less strange.


Oh. Yeah, casting makes a bit more sense now.

Chris, how about if you picture him as Raistlin? Naaah, that'd never work. :roll:

[Ojoxsofeta]

The voice - totally.

But as an actor... well, you'd have to send him to makeup for a while.

After you starved him for a while.

And gave him TB.

[Chris Chandler]

More specifically, jaundice, to get that yellow cast to his skin.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Oh, and the lasik surgery to put the hourglasses in his pupils.

All in all, an intensive part.

But would Jack Bauer do it?

(For America, he would. Sorry Dal).

[LadyGlutter]

I fully expect Hoylur to yell

PSYCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and run off screaming at the thought of human touch, but hey, Zora's an optimist :P.

[Dalcassius]

I'd almost expect him to fire off Chill Touch or Colour Spray.

[Chris Chandler]

Ask for a hug, send a chill touch...

Now that's cold...

It's all I had.

[LadyGlutter]

Wow, that never even crossed my (or Zora's) mind. Would be pretty funny though.

[Dalcassius]

Funny, except for the lethal damage part.

[Ojoxsofeta]

And evocation as a barred school. (Wait - chill touch is necro? Why don't I have it then?)

And something tells me that the somatic components would give it away, if not the verbal.

[Chris Chandler]

Chill touch is a good way to level the playing field. I've found that an Ill/necro mix is an effective way to give the bad guys headaches. I've never been one for the big boom.

[Dalcassius]

Chill touch + weasel familiar = devistating attack.
I also love colour spray. Those are my two favourite 1st level offensive spells.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Hoylur nor I would even contemplate the humorous casting of an offensive spell on any other PC - it's uncool (and other party members see him sleep FAR too often).

[LadyGlutter]

See, I knew there was a reason Hoylur was trustworthy. He's not an elf! It's those pointy eared ones that get ya, because they can skip that sleep step.

You know, this is really off topic, but I've always felt that's really not fair. All the "balancing" that they do, but they don't notice that little fact that elves don't freaking die, live on this earth for centuries, and then don't even have to take naps! How do they balance THAT out? Oh, it's not combat oriented, my bad.

[Gamebird]

In five days, my current job ends and with it, my access to fast internet access. We're working on getting DSL and discussing getting a laptop or other non-Mac computer at home. Though DSL and a Mac might be fine for the internet. Also in the next five days, I'll probably be flying/driving to Nevada, MO for another job interview.

It's been pretty non-stop busy at the house and stressful as all hell. As a result, for the next few weeks my ability to post might be very sketchy. I'll let you know when I can participate more fully.

[LadyGlutter]

Yeesh. Good luck job hunting. I hope one of these is what you're looking for.

[Ojoxsofeta]

indeed, good luck with the job hunt

and lady g, you've forgotten the most important part of all Tolkien-esque fantasy:

"elves own so STFU"

**** And I get to leave work two hours early today, with pay!

[Dalcassius]

I've got my fingers crossed for you GB.

[LadyGlutter]

and lady g, you've forgotten the most important part of all Tolkien-esque fantasy:

"elves own so STFU"

Ah yes, I had forgotten that. My bad.

[Dalcassius]

I was going through the threads which Chris kindly posted in the Campaign Information thread (Thank you very much Chris) and I became curious. So after a little searching and mathing I discovered that we have more that 5500 posts between our 5 IC threads. Congratulations everyone! I'm sure our parents would be very proud.

[LightBringer]

Yes, good luck GB. I know how stressful job hunting is. I hope your's goes quickly.

[LadyGlutter]

Nah, my parents wouldn't. They thought I was entering a Satanic cult when I started D&D. For serious. Well, no, to be strictly honest, my dad just thought I was being social and he disapproved of that on principle. But my mom kept saying, and this DM, are you sure he's not just out to do some ritualistic brain washing so he can rape you?

No, I'm not making it up.

[Ojoxsofeta]

oh, the plight of the lady gamer

i was a late bloomer to D&D (learned my freshman year of college, right before the switch to 3.5 [which saved me a buttload of money upgrading]), so i never had any issues with parents thinking i was about to start sacrificing pets and the like

however, i do miss out on many of the references back to AD&D though - but who would want to remember THAC0?

[Dalcassius]

I've spent many a night in an alcholic haze trying to forget THAC0.

[LightBringer]

Hey now, Explaining THAC0 to newcomers was great entertainment. It also helped weed out the field. :nod:

[Chris Chandler]

Yeah, it's just counting backwards. I so enjoyed saying things like, "Okay, now make a saving throw versus DEATH."

"Make a Will Save" just doesn't have the same ring to it. Mind you, I like the new stuff, as a whole, better, but there were some good nuggets back in yore.

[Dalcassius]

"Will save VERSUS DEATH!" still works for me.

[LadyGlutter]

Can someone with some internet voodoo do something to make this service call tomorrow work finally and me get some reliable service? Some juicy stuff just happened and I couldn't react to it properly at all. Not to mention how this is interfering with my other recreational internet usage. :P

[LightBringer]

Sorry, no internet voodoo here. I have some of the regular kind. :cool:

[Gamebird]

We're still trying to get wireless/high-speed access at home and the computer store sold my clueless hubby a computer that has no modem (not even dial up) and doesn't connect to the monitor they sold him at the same time. This was to replace his old computer, which they couldn't figure out how to fix without a prohibitive amount of labor. Of course he's taking it back today, but it's one struggle after another. So back home I go.

Thanks for the well-wishing.

[Dalcassius]

People like the ones who sold that hunk of crap to you husband are the reason I want them to bring back public whippings. (Not really, but they still deserve a hurtin'.)

[Chris Chandler]

Yeah, that's really unconscionable. I know that in retail you try to give the person more than they need, but you don't give them crap they'll bring back. That's not only dishonest, but stupid!

[LadyGlutter]

Or, even if not dishonest, so grossly incompetent it's ridiculous.

Regular voodoo isn't any help to me. I've got that covered. I need internets specific.

[Gamebird]

Wireless is working now! And his new computer works passably with it via an ethernet cord (makes me wonder why it's called "wireless"). The monitor *did* work with the computer, but somehow in taking it back and forth, we lost the power cord. Fortunately it used the same type as a spare we had laying around.

For now, my laptop is the only truly wireless unit here, but I might not have it for long. We'll have to see. Bleh. Too many things keep happening around here.

[LadyGlutter]

Alright, so I'm confused with the flow of time issues AGAIN. This switchover and the snow storm has fried my brain.

Did we or did we not investigate nearby houses looking for food? Also, did the bear clear out up to all the houses or just the ones we knew people were in. If that is so, we should have seen clues as to who was where. If not, then I'm going to have to figure out how to satisfy myself that those kids aren't freezing to death nearby before we go into the woods.

ALSO -- I don't know if the conversation with Gunther happened or not about the scrying pool. It now seems like rewinded over it, now that I think back.

I know it's a lot of questions, but I'm flat out so confused I actually am not sure exactly how to be roleplaying it appropriately.

EDIT: Also, somewhere in my mind I think that Leif and Lassi are out looking for the kids and that was going to be conveyed to me but I don't know if it ever did.

I'm currently trying to go through the thread and find these things and straighten it out myself, but until the net is stable again I am posting this for a makeshift kind of post. I'm going to delete what I have IC because of it. It might be all wrong.

(Yes, we "called the man." He's coming in the next 18 minutes, allegedly.)

[Chris Chandler]

1. I finessed a lot of the "baking bread" points to establish that there were a few hours here and there where folks went out and, in general, saw the status of the colony. That means that you found many stockpiles of preserved food, firewood, and a few other supplies. You haven't really looked at the colony yet with an eye toward finding the kids. I feel bad whenever I finesse, so I didn't want to lead with too much information.

That being said - you don't know if there are kids hiding out or not. There wasn't a blatent "bread crumb trail" and you only recently have become aware that you needed to look for any evidence.

2. Gunther and the scrying pool definitely happened. It just got stopped short by Brit and Kirfah.

3. So far the only folks that have direct knowledge of Leif and Lassi being out and about are Kirfah and Breena. It'd be up to them whether or not that information was ever back-staged.

[Dalcassius]

There's been alot happening up front that would have prevent the backstage transfer of knowledge. Though I have a feeling that it will be coming to the fore-front shortly.

[LightBringer]

Brit is going based on post 16 on page 1 of the IC.

[Gamebird]

Well, I read this after posting to the IC. So now Breena's said frontstage that Leif and Lassi are outside of the colony proper, though she didn't say what they were doing (she thinks they're out hunting for meat, as the missing kids stuff is new to her).

An important thing Chris didn't address that LG asked, is whether the bear cleared trails to all the houses/buildings, or just some of them. If it's to all of them, then that will make searching them easier. If just to the inhabited ones (with the bear telling by scent, I guess, which ones were occupied), then that would give us hints by process of elimination to any houses occupied but which we haven't seen anyone near them.

Breena has walked the perimeter of the town, on the inside of the walls and has done some walking around across town. So she should have noticed if there were some houses without trails dug to them, or if it appeared that all houses had trails to them.

[Chris Chandler]

Oops - forgot about that issue. The bear made trails based on Agatha's perception of what was or what was not occupied. That means the Sajid household, the cooper's house, and Agatha's home have paths to 'Drada's. All other folks that are alive and in town would have been afflicted and are therefore at 'Drada's. Both Leif and Lassi have households similar in proximity away from Last Breath to the Hannigan homestead - that is, they are on the outskirts of town. Basically, it's Hannigan to the North, Leif to the Northeast, Lassi to the Southeast, and the Cross manor to the South - all other households are loosely grouped around the core of Last Breath.

[Gamebird]

Would it be possible to get a census of who is left in Last Breath?

People in Last Breath after the disaster:
Us: Breena, Brit, Zora, Kirfah, Gunther, Hoylur.

The Sajid household: Akasma, Fatima, Grace, Sharad (unconscious).

'Drada's place: Agatha*, Wybert (blind), Sascha*, Brand (might think he's a bear)*, Julian (cooper)*, Bartel (dwarf smith)*, Tiede (dwarf boy)*, Anwen (seamstress)*, Anwen’s two children (Eira and Tiwlip)*, Maribella*
*recovering from bloodbrow

Able-bodied folk other than us: Lief+, Lassi+, Jacob, Orvokki
+Outside of town and unaccounted for

We should have around 22 plus ourselves, so 28. I’m counting 25 so far, though the initial estimate of 22 might have been wrong. Is there anyone our characters would know who isn’t on the above list?

What I'm doing is verifying my impression that the town is woefully short on defenders. There's Jacob, Orvokki, a blind man and three older women, plus us. There's six upright people and 11 prostrate, and one of those upright is blind.

[LadyGlutter]

Last edited by Ojoxsofeta : Today at 12:57. Reason: So when did we start posting on the weekends?

Only speaking for me, but it's a fluke that I did. I usually check but don't post, because it's rarely worth it to talk to myself. This go round when I checked, so much was going on, and I had the chance to post so did. I have only been able to get on when I can get on, thanks to the net access bullhockey. I've been driving the family crazy by apparently glancing at the modem in my sleep to see how many lights are lit. It's become a nervous twitch.

In other news, Giantitp's forum is down, AGAIN.

[Ojoxsofeta]

way back when we were first or second level, i used to check to thread on the weekend, but like you said, it's no fun talking to yourself and fell out of the habit of doing such.

[Dalcassius]

I post if there is reason for Kirfah to have something to say, but I also expect nothing to come of it until Monday and for myself to not be able to post when I'd like to during the week.

[Gamebird]

I'm at home full time now and we have wireless (ie, fast) net access at home for now. For now, my net access is in flux and I can't say what sort of pattern it will settle into.

[Gamebird]

I didn't think the society was advanced enough to sugar-coat things for children. The concept of children as inherently innocent and worthy of special protection because of that is a pretty modern thing - within the past one to two hundred years. It's also something that applied exclusively to the children of the wealthy initially, just as many ideas of feminity and inherent "weakness" in women was something no one seriously applied to common washerwomen, goodwives or serfs. Sojourner Truth's "Ain't I a Woman" is a hoot on that particular topic, illustrating the silliness of claims that fragile, delicate women needed to be protected from the emotional rigor of politics and women's suffrage.

Our recent history has been a progression of selecting groups who need our "protection" and are imagined as helpless without it. In some cases, such as women, blacks, slaves and less-sophisticated members of colonized cultures this has been thrown off. In others, like children and more recently pet or companion animals, it's stuck. And it's expanding into all types of animals and even plants and habitats.

Eh, anyway, my point was that I imagine Breena as being a member of a society where children are seen as immature and less able/experienced adults rather than members of a protected class. As such, she'd skin a deer in front of a child or discuss the death of a neighbor without thinking she needed to censor herself.

If this is inappropriate for the society, let me know and I'll tweak Breena's behavior in future.

[LadyGlutter]

Ok -- I'll counter that, but I can totally see Breena feeling that way. It wasn't simply about the kid, though she was part of it.

(I have written this and keep slipping into first person, so I'm sorry, but I'm just going to go with it as narrated by Zora. "I" being Zora.)

I have just returned from a long journey, to find my hometown in ruins. I am talking to another person from this town, I haven't seen in forever, and her daughter. Breena just made a crazy bunch of leaps in conjecture to a kid who probably isn't going to understand a bit of it, except that it's more scary stuff. Her mom just told us that the fell wolf has been ravaging the town. Then Breena says that the same people who tore the town up tied a little girl to this wolf cub and... anyway, a lot of stuff. As a kid, she's not going to grasp all this. I'm trying to protect everyone's feelings by waiting for the appropriate moment, not just Kaija's.

Still, Kaija in particular is who I want to talk to, so she in particular is who I don't want to be flooding with images of grim death and spectres of shape changing boogeymen that will distract her from the very important things I DO want to talk to her about. And protective or no, children are very easy to distract, especially by scaring them. Now, this particular child has seen a ton of horrible stuff, but I'm not thinking that all the way through and measuring her sensitivity levels. I don't know if you have noticed, but I tend to play Zora as a mother hen and protective person in general, not just of children. She also will give someone a proverbial rap to the knuckles when they need it.

Sure, I agree, I'd let a kid see an animal be killed, expect work to be done of a child, etc. But I also am a person who believes in innocence to a degree. I believe in playing and enjoying life, not dwelling on the gruesome. Several NPCs have chided me for my outlook already. I'd rather notice the good stuff and focus on what I can fix, not freak people out when I don't have the time to explain fully things.

And mostly, Breena frustrates the hell out of me because she talks when I want her to shut up and clams up when she needs to talk. Dammit.

So it's not simply a societal reaction that's the problem here. Just saying. It's personalities as well.

[Chris Chandler]

I didn't think the society was advanced enough to sugar-coat things for children. The concept of children as inherently innocent and worthy of special protection because of that is a pretty modern thing - within the past one to two hundred years. It's also something that applied exclusively to the children of the wealthy initially, just as many ideas of feminity and inherent "weakness" in women was something no one seriously applied to common washerwomen, goodwives or serfs. Sojourner Truth's "Ain't I a Woman" is a hoot on that particular topic, illustrating the silliness of claims that fragile, delicate women needed to be protected from the emotional rigor of politics and women's suffrage.

Our recent history has been a progression of selecting groups who need our "protection" and are imagined as helpless without it. In some cases, such as women, blacks, slaves and less-sophisticated members of colonized cultures this has been thrown off. In others, like children and more recently pet or companion animals, it's stuck. And it's expanding into all types of animals and even plants and habitats.

Eh, anyway, my point was that I imagine Breena as being a member of a society where children are seen as immature and less able/experienced adults rather than members of a protected class. As such, she'd skin a deer in front of a child or discuss the death of a neighbor without thinking she needed to censor herself.

If this is inappropriate for the society, let me know and I'll tweak Breena's behavior in future.


Well, that sounds nice and all, but really I don't see what it has to do with what Breena was saying. Society is one thing, but we're in a divergent setting during a crisis, and Breena is not a societal character. Societal norms of "skinning animals in front of the lads" is, of course, an acceptable world-view, especially during the fabricated period in which we're playing, but we aren't in a vaccuum, at all, here. There isn't anyone from a "protected class" here, but class doesn't enter into it. Things are broken down, here, into a near clan-structure, with family groups forming a loose tribal structure, with only Theshian Theology creating any sort of homogeny. Even then, there are Taptebarn, Alafalans, Durga, Turmis hites, even halflings within this community, aside from the "societal norm" of the Theshians. Also, Sojurner Truth is a bit modern to really apply to what we've got going on here. While you may want to distill things into easy to handle categories, it's clouding the issue to apply early-modern American political thought (about very specific topics) to an old-world analog containing a divergent society.

Not only are you crossing societal boundaries, but also wide-gulf Cultural boundaries. Kaija's an Alafalan, a wood-elf, and from a very different culture than that of some Yeoman's daughter. What Breena said to Kaija (specifically to Kaija, you weren't referring to Orvokki) was, indeed, unacceptable.

You guys didn't have the opportunity to witness 170 people die from the Bloodbrow. Guess who did? The little elfling that you just tossed wild supposition toward got to watch the whole ordeal, and was part of the clean-up effort. That's a little more than learning to skin a deer. The good ol' days were harder, more simple, even. That's got nothing to do with sociopathic behavior.

You play Breena as a sociopath, absolutely. That is fine - honestly, I'd say that most D&D characters have sociopathic tendencies. The adventuring life has very little to do with society, in general. You also play her as a character that gets things wrong, all the time - not dumb, just not "getting it", from time to time. That's also fine, character-wise. That does not mean, however, that anyone has to turn a blind eye to your character's "antics". What Zora said was right on, in her "rationale" here and in the IC. You can't expect to have Breena drop an anvil like that on Kaija without Zora calling you on it, especially when what Breena said was unsubstantiated.

[Gamebird]

Breena just made a crazy bunch of leaps in conjecture to a kid ...

Actually she was talking to Orvokki, responding to Orvokki's comment about the fell wolf and the nothingness seeming unrelated. That would have been clear to a character standing there (like Zora), from Breena's line of eye contact, which was with Orvokki, not with Kaija.

[Gamebird]

And to Chris' comment - I am rebuked. I was not trying to note that Sojourner's commentary was appropriate to a medieval setting. In fact, the opposite. Though you have an excellent point that none of our real world historical cultural frameworks are perfect or necessarily even good analogs. Which is why I said "If this is inappropriate for the society, let me know and I'll tweak Breena's behavior in future." I'll take it as 'yeah, that's inappropriate for this society' and tweak Breena's behavior in future.

You say sociopath like it's a bad thing. Heh, it's virtually what the character is based on - difficulty with intimacy, distrust of loved ones, given to fits of rage, long-standing pattern of gender-inappropriate behavior (ie, willingness to be an adventurer and/or combatant). Not that it's an incurable condition, but I'm certainly learning why most sociopaths/antisocial personality disorder folks stay that way.

[LadyGlutter]

Ahhhh, ok. That means what I knew outside of what Zora did, does not help explain it and that Breena really makes NO sense to me. That's not suprising. I have had the hardest time reading her in general. It really changes Zora's actions very little, except she'd be looking thoughtfully at Kaija and Orvokki both.

While I'm at it, this is an issue along the same lines: LightBringer, your question is unclear to me. I'm sure the context would be clearer in person. Who is "they" in your question -- the missing children or Leif and Lassi? I tried to decide whether to repeat your question, and then realized maybe Orvokki already answered it.

Alrighty, on with the game!

[LightBringer]

I don't know why it isn't clear? :S The last thing Zora said was, "And how long have the kids been missing?" my comment was just an extension of yours.

No it hasn't been answered, but then there was some confusion. That's why Brit hasn't said anything else.

[LadyGlutter]

Like I said, it would have been absolutely clearer in person. Actually, to be precise, I originally thought it was an extension of my question. Then Hoylur made a a guess but that answer wasn't responded to by Brit, probably because he's such a smartbutt. So then I second guessed myself that maybe it wasn't what you meant.

I just over thought it is all. Mostly because of the analyzing exactly why Zora said everything she said and thought, I got into over analysis mode. You know how that is.

[LightBringer]

"because he's such a smartbutt", exactly why.

[LadyGlutter]

Psssst, Chris!


....And can you one of guys take care of Ru? That thing wouldn't even have the respect to eat her."


Ru's not there, even though the other PCs followed after all. That was an indictation that Ru was to stay put. I assume that a housetrained lynx shouldn't be any trouble, really, as long as Wybert opened a door whenever she mewled. There was no way I was dealing with Zora losing Ru, and Ru already was brazen enough with DwF.

Further posting later, braindead from work and probably safe enough til Monday not to post anyway, just wanted to clarify that bit real quick.

[Chris Chandler]

Oops - I totally forgot. My mistake!

[LadyGlutter]

Wow, I hope it goes better, dude. I have it on good authority my hugs are the best, from MULTIPLE sources. So, even if you're not a touchy person, here's YOU one.

{{{{{{{{{OJOXSOFETA}}}}}}}}}}}

It will make you feel better as long as you let me, you don't even have to hug back. I'm used to that. ;)

Seriously, I hope your week goes up from here.

[Ojoxsofeta]

"because he's such a smartbutt", exactly why.

I'd have a wise comment for this, but it's been a crummy week. Hopefully, band practice tonight will constitute a turning point.

[LadyGlutter]

Oh, new topic of discussion! What do you play!? Or do you sing, or what?!

I was just called a music nerd not an hour ago. It was such a good compliment that I will brag on it, even if I disagree with the assessment.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Oh, new topic of discussion! What do you play!? Or do you sing, or what?!

I was just called a music nerd not an hour ago. It was such a good compliment that I will brag on it, even if I disagree with the assessment.

I'm playing bass in a klezmer band. And because I always seem to have to explain it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klezmer.

And I'm out of work in like, five minutes. Killer.

[Gamebird]

Klezmer, eh? That's awesome. Do you get many gigs?

[Dalcassius]

Chris, what is the initiative order for the combat?

[Ojoxsofeta]

Klezmer, eh? That's awesome. Do you get many gigs?

Some - not a whole bunch, but we practice every week at the retirement home in the area and people seem to enjoy listening to us work out our kinks.

I've been told that we play out four to six times a year, depending on weddings and bar mitzvahs.

[LadyGlutter]

Dalcassius - is that why so silent?

Ojoxsofeta - I had a feeling you were going to say something along those lines. It is awesome, I agree. I have been thinking seriously about my own need for a musical outlet. Practicing for a retirement home weekly sounds like an interesting way of dealing with that need. I can see how that would make everyone's day brighter. So are you new to the band?

[Chris Chandler]

Initiative

DWF
15
Breena
10
Brit
8
Gunther
14
Hoylur
8
Kirfah
15 (going before DWF)
Hare
11

Zora's not in combat yet, and will roll initiative when and if she joins.

[Gamebird]

Are we waiting for Hoylur's intent, or for Chris to say what DWF does, or Kirfah to roll his shot?

Performing at a retirement home sounds like a great idea. We have an amateur band that practices across the street. Teenagers with a lot of hair. They call their band "Rivet", which I initially misheard as "Ribbit" (the sound a frog makes). :D I'll suggest the retirement home idea to them if I get a chance, but I doubt it will appeal to them. It takes a certain maturity level to be happy to play music for older folks. I'm not sure these guys have it.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Dalcassius - is that why so silent?

Ojoxsofeta - I had a feeling you were going to say something along those lines. It is awesome, I agree. I have been thinking seriously about my own need for a musical outlet. Practicing for a retirement home weekly sounds like an interesting way of dealing with that need. I can see how that would make everyone's day brighter. So are you new to the band?

I'm quite new to the group, and I'm also a babe amongst the other members (almost 23 compared the next youngest, which I think is 35 and then a big gap until the 50 to 70 range).

[Dalcassius]

Dalcassius - is that why so silent?
I already posted an action, even if it was for the last round, I felt I should wait for others. However as it turns out I'm first out of everybody, so I guess I could have just posted both actions at once.

As soon as I get home tonight after getting groceries, I'll expand on my IC post, including the addition of rolls.

[Gamebird]

Initiative

Kirfah
15 (going before DWF)
DWF
15
Gunther
14
Hare
11
Breena
10
Hoylur
8
Brit
8

So now we're up to round 2... Well, I'll go off and update Breena's intentions for that round.

[Chris Chandler]

LOL - thanks, GB. Your OCD is showing, btw.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Tomorrow it seems unlikely that I'll be able to post --- our trainer is gone for the day so they are monitoring the internet and email usage hardcore.

I'll see what I can do during break/lunch, but don't be surprised if Chris has to forward things along for me.

[Gamebird]

OCD? Yeah. Must... put... things... in... right... order!!!

[Dalcassius]

It's ok GB. It was kinda buggin' me too. I've just got OCT.

[Gamebird]

Obsessive Compulsive... Therapy?

[Dalcassius]

Obsessive Compulsive Tendencies.
Oh its real. Google that shit.

[Chris Chandler]

Just for the both of you, I'd like you to have a mind exercise. I have a bag of candy, and I just dumped them out. Now, they are red, green, brown, yellow, and blue, and have markings . Of course, you'll need to tell me which ones are Ms, which ones are Es, and which ones are 3s. Do Yellow 3s go before Red Es, or after?

[LadyGlutter]

Ooooooh, oooh, I know you save the green ones! They're kinda important.

The other day I saw one of those big plush M&Ms, a green one, on the side of the road. I almost wrecked, cracking up. I had this whole scenario flash through my head, "here, honey, look what I got you." Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.... "Here's what I think of your gift!" Bwahaha.

[Chris Chandler]

I remember that. You were just dying, too.

[Gamebird]

M, E and 3 are the same symbol at different orientations. I would put them all together and eat them, though most likely I would be unable to resist eating them by color or color combination, like eating all the green ones first, or pairing up green with brown (for chocolate mint!), or yellow, green and blue (because yellow and green make blue), etc.

If eating them wasn't on the menu, then I'd sort them by color. If I was still bored, I'd line them up in rows and blocks, preferably with the same number of rows and columns (ie, a square) and eat any that interfered with such a perfect arrangement. The problem is that once I had them arranged like that, I'd have trouble bringing myself to eat them because that would mean ruining the arrangement.

Edit: Oh, and it would be important to have the markings all facing upwards, oriented the same way.

[LadyGlutter]

Did I not just remind you not to eat the green ones?!

Sheesh.

[Chris Chandler]

Ah... beautiful... That's just perfect. I even omitted the Ws.

[Dalcassius]

Nice test. I'll have to remember that one.

[Gamebird]

So, did I pass?

[Gamebird]

Happy Father's Day to all those to which the title applies!

Our activities today will include cleaning up the house (yeah, we're weird) and grilling out. I hope you have a good day.

On another note, soon it is very likely I will get a new laptop. Or a used one. I would like your advice on what to get. My requirements are that it is PC-compatible, has Word and Excel (2003, preferably), fairly fast on internet browsing, able to support/view/whatever this site, GitP and Hotmail (Youtube and watching Heroes online is a plus, but not required), have at least 10 or 20 gig of storage/memory and be buff enough to run four or five applications at once. Sound and graphics ability are a plus, but I don't plan to play online games or use it to view movies. The occasional movie trailer though - I might use to view those. Light weight and portability isn't a big priority.

What I'd absolutely love and go ga-ga over is if it was also compatible with my iMac (OS 9.2.8 or OS 10.2.2) and Epson printer (740i).

Suggestions?

I also don't want it to choke when I try to manipulate an Excel or Powerpoint file that's 50 or 100 Meg.

[Chris Chandler]

Notebook eh?

Hmm... Well, the work that you do will require, specifically alot of RAM, to keep that paging file from being taxed. If you really are using ginormous Excel sheets like that, I have to wonder, well, why? I use Excel like crazy, across servers and making it do all sorts of stupid calculations, but they never get huge. Are you using it as a database? Likewise, are those .ppt files containing embedded video and the like?


You need alot of RAM
You need a decent processor
You need a decent video card


Past that, MS office behaves pretty well. If you aren't going to turn it into a gaming rig, then you'll be fine with a mid-range system, with perhaps a RAM upgrade. I'd not look past $1000.00, in fact, there should be plenty of power closer to $700.00 for what you need to do.

That Epson Printer won't be an issue. A Windows box will already have a driver for a mainstream printer like that. The Epson Website, likewise, will have any updated drivers for the printer.

Setting up a network between a PC and a Mac is a piece of cake. If you aren't needing to bounce files between the machines and just want them connected, then a simple TCP/IP network will do. Otherwise, programs like MACLAN (http://shop.ca.com/file_sharing/pc_mac_network.aspx) can get the job done, with proper sharing options for both boxes.

[Dalcassius]

I'd also suggest that you make sure your video card is not integrated or shared. If its shared it takes away from the potential of your RAM. If it's integrated you can't upgrade or replace it if something happens.

As for what qualifies for decent...
-1 GB is a little over decent for RAM but 2 GB is sweet and shouldn't hit the budget too hard. It would be a while before you need to upgrade and if you can't get away from a shared video card, you won't even notice the effect.
-256MB should more than cover your video card needs. I would suggest making sure its a PCI express. It will give you the best performance and has the best potential for optimal compatability with whatever you want to connect to the laptop. If by chance you stumble across a 512MB card with a good price that wouldn't hurt, but by that time your falling into the gamer zone.
-A decent processor, IMO, runs around 2.2ghz or greater. Duo cores are nice for running multiple apps, but solo cores still have their uses. If you are looking for a duo over a solo, a slight drop in the speed isn't so bad.
I'm currently running a duo 1.6ghz and I'm wishing it was a little faster. But then again I'm not impatient and using it for games.

As a side note, AMD over Intel. But that's just my opinion. Also, if you can get AMD's Opteron Duo (can be slightly pricy), they are setting up a system to upgrade them to quad chips without the hassle of completely replacing the entire processor unit. Sweeeeet.

I like shopping from www.tigerdirect.ca (http://www.tigerdirect.ca). This could be an issue as its a Canadian site and ships from Toronto, Ontario. My laptop shipped at 10.5 lbs and cost me $40 shipping, but boarder duties would more than double that. Then there is the exchange rate and well, I have no idea anymore.

[EDIT] Sorry if I'm info dumping, I'm told I do it and its annoying.

[Dalcassius]

Finding it when and if he does, he will toss it down Zora.
Zora then tosses it back up and asks Hoylur to actually tie it to something first.

[Chris Chandler]

Zora then tosses it back up and asks Hoylur to actually tie it to something first.

Hey! I was going to say that!!!


But as to the specifics, Dal makes some excellent suggestions for the benchmarks for such a system. The biggest bottleneck for my system (albeit a desktop) is the integrated video. Everything runs slower when it gets taxed - much hate.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Zora then tosses it back up and asks Hoylur to actually tie it to something first.

That would be something that someone with a wisdom of 13 would notice.

Kirfah, on the other hand...

[LadyGlutter]

Ooooh, burn!

I have nothing of value to add to the conversation. I just appreciated that.

[LightBringer]

Nothing to add either just, ROFL.

Well come to think of it. How do you toss a rope down someone?


“Finding it when and if he does, he will toss it down Zora. ”

[Ojoxsofeta]

Nothing to add either just, ROFL.

Well come to think of it. How do you toss a rope down someone?



Carefully.

[Dalcassius]

That would be something that someone with a wisdom of 13 would notice.

Kirfah, on the other hand...
Touche.

[Gamebird]

Yesterday my work called and told me I absolutely HAD to give back my work laptop ASAP, so today I bought a Macbook. I hope it has everything I need - it certainly seems a bit overpowered (which is good!) The only snag I've had so far is getting it on the household wireless, because the idiot installer INSISTED we use a password and security encrypt our network. Which means a new computer has to have the password and neither husband nor I recall what it was. I'm not sure what to do about that, but tomorrow I'll start calling the wireless company and service tech and find out what I should do.

The Macbook has Office for Mac and we imported my Webshots and stuff. It seems cool so far, though twice as expensive as I wanted.

[Gamebird]

On another note, how do you have "meaningful" character conflict without it moving to the (to me) natural next step of someone getting murdered?

I'm reminded of a pet peeve of a friend of mine. His peeve is when people say "We just need to calm down and deal with this like adults". His response is to recall that *adults* start wars, commit murder, condone torture, spread hate, and so on. Not all of them, certainly, but most, when given the opportunity.

So without including the metagame aspect of not wanting to kill other PCs, how do you have conflict without it occasionally getting out of hand?

[LightBringer]

Well I haven't read the IC yet, so I'll give this a try.

While we as gamers have to remember that this is a game, I'm going to say that the 'meaningful' part though, is really based on the character. For Kirfah a meaningful conflict may be a debate. It might be calm, or it might be heated, but it probably wouldn't move past that. He would let it stand, even if he didn't convince who he was debating with, of his point of view. For Breena that 'debate' may be combat. It may be the only way she feels an issue, that has gotten that far, can be resolved. How far she takes it, is something you as the player would have to decide. Is Breena capable of killing someone she has known for many years? Or would she stop if she got in the first lick?

So I think that it is the characters personality that determines exactly what a 'meaningful' conflict is, and we as the players, have to remember, it is still a game.

[LadyGlutter]

I had this before LB's post, but it took so long to edit in my thoughts, I just moved it after his. Even though it's just a longer version of the same idea, I want to add my two cents. I also have not read the IC yet.

Sometimes it happens that conflict ends in character death. As much as a GM tries to be ingenious and challenging, killing a PC takes a special kind of adrenaline and outside of the box thinking. :P Sorry, well, not really. It's true.

Some of my favorite moments of roleplay ever involved PvP. Mostly it was because it was so genuine. I don't think that PvP should be an everyday occurance, but sometimes it is the NATURAL consequence of player's actions.

I wrote a story of an example of such conflict, but I decided the details weren't the important thing and cut it out. The important things were that we left the gaming session full of adrenaline and thrilled and happy even having smacked the hell out of each other. Not a hard feeling at all. We had played these characters for long amounts of time often before the aggression and conflict came to a head. It was soooo beautiful when it happened.

Now, I've been in situations where PvP was UGLY but necessary as well, just to bring some sort of closure to the situation. If you can't see any way out of Breena raging on Brit, maybe it's the only way to have reasonable satisfaction that Breena is growing and dynamic. I'll let Chris speak to the GM aspect, and LB has spoken as Brit's player. I just wanted to add in a party member's OK to try and lay some smack down. ;) Seriously, if it helps get Breena out of this stuck place in her life, go for it.

[Ojoxsofeta]

On an entirely unrelated topic, one of the local 10 minute oil change places put in anti-freeze in for transmission fluid.

[LadyGlutter]

UH..... that entirely sucks Ojox. Um... isn't transmission fluid like red and stuff and antifreeze the color of Mountain Dew? Was it your car?????

May as well tell the tale. It's much clearer reading the story.

The Winter Campaign*

Raven had a strong sense of honor and justice. She believed in right and wrong, and though she was the party rogue, she objected strongly to the term 'thief.' When other characters asked her to pick a lock she took great offense. (CG Rogue, alignment shifting towards NG. No points in most 'thiefy' skills, heavily combat oriented. )

Also in the group, was Kebler. Kebler had no problem looking out for Number One, and was here for the power and the money. (TN sorceror, alignment shifting as well towards Evil.)

Raven and Kebler clashed from the beginning. It began with Kebler's penchant for animating the corpses of anyone they had vanquished and having their cadavers serve as literal meat shields. If they survived the battle, Kebler kept them as pets, following the party around until they couldn't walk anymore. Raven had to spend every moment of every day staring at the faces of those she had killed, watching Kebler's glee as the bodies obeyed his whims. Even though he assured her they weren't true undead, it was disrespectful, immoral, horrendous, and just plain in bad taste. It was Wrong. Raven told him such, and Kebler thought it was greatly hilarious to watch her squirm. Raven took to destroying the animated corpses as fast as he made them, so Kebler had to rethink his standard spell lists.

As the campaign drew on, Kebler and Raven continued to clash. Abandoning his old spell list, he decided to go with spells that were large area affect spells, usually involving FIRE. Kebler was just as abusive with these spells. He fireballed allies, enemies, and PCs indiscriminately.

Raven finally lost her temper and Kebler got scared while she was in his face yelling. While claiming he would not ever raise a hand against a party member, he tried to cast "Hold Person". She saved. His eyes got wide, and he tried to Charm her. Then Suggest that she do... something. Raven made all her saving throws. So, in two rounds, she whipped his ass and handed it back to him. She told him to straighten up and fly right, because next time would be his last.

Fast forward through a few instances where Raven almost dies because no one in the party will tell her what is going on. This is obviously because Kebler is poisoning the party against her. More lies, more abuses of spells. More slippery covering of his tracks where Raven's never really sure if it's Kebler or not. Then he slips up. He gleefully spitefully slips up. I don't actually remember the specifics of the situation, but I do remember Kebler laughing in Raven's face and saying, "What you going to do about it NOW? I have almost all my spells. You don't have any shadows to hide in or Justice** to hide behind. I'm down here safe. You can't do a damn thing."

Now, while I've had characters that would turn the other cheek at that sort of taunting, Raven couldn't take it. It'd been months building, but it was just too much. Raven jumped into the ravine he thought he was protected and safe in. She took TONS of damage. We were all jumping around and yelling things like, "read the dice so he knows I'm not lying!" at Chris.

Raven came very very close to dying. But she killed him, and slept well for the first night in the entire campaign. And we all got to get rid of some party tension that was building up to the point of interfering with our effectiveness, while taking out some aggression and having an awesome battle to boot. Plus I got tons of XP for the boy.


*actually much longer than one winter, but we still call it that for some odd reason
**party paladin

[Dalcassius]

The only snag I've had so far is getting it on the household wireless, because the idiot installer INSISTED we use a password and security encrypt our network.
That is a really good idea. It stops people from using your internet for free and being able to access your systems that are connected to the network. If you are lucky its at least a WPA and not just WEP. If you are really lucky its WPA2.

On the other hand, lucky would mean the wireless company has the hexcode recorded somewhere and won't have to take the network apart to fix it.

The best thing to do is use a phrase for your encryption since it can be up to 33 characters. Someone I know used two lines from the poem "Jabberwocky" and before that had "Thereare10kindsofpeopleintheworld."

I've actually just put in a new network last weekend and now I need to get around to setting up the WPA encryption. The basic lock is in place but I'd feel bet with a 33 charcter hex encryption. Its the difference between releasing the dog and releasing the dog with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you. Always go for the bee shooting dogs.

I really need to get a book on analogies.

[Chris Chandler]

bee is to dog's mouth as, wait just one minute!?

[Dalcassius]

Every time I read the word analogy I just can't help but think it should mean "Bum-science." Like a synonym for proctology.

[Ojoxsofeta]

that would be "analology" my good man, as "-ogy" is no suffix

[Dalcassius]

Point, but its still looks close enough.

[EDIT] Just got a chance to read the story. That is awesome.

[Gamebird]

So, what's WPA, WEP and WPA2?

Ojox, was it your car?!? If so, bummer! And, hey, tell me what happens when someone puts antifreeze in the transmission. Just morbid curiosity here.

Great story, LG!

And I've read the OOC and my last statement of Breena's action stands, as far as I'm concerned. Which didn't involve hitting anyone, as it turns out.

[Dalcassius]

You know, I can't recall what they stand for, but basicly they are the different generations of encryption. WEP is the oldest and weakest, followed by WPA and WPA2. It isn' to say that WEP is insecure, but WPA is more so and should be just as easy to come by. Its just a matter of having the software and hardware that are compatable with that encryption method. If things are new this shouldbn't be a problem. WPA2 is more recent and the most secure. There is a chance that a new network won't be WPA2 ready.

[Gamebird]

Okay. Hopefully the folks who sold us the wireless will be able to help us with the password.

[LadyGlutter]

FTR, I'm waiting to see if Hoylur finds the rope before I post my action.

[LightBringer]

I guess my curiosity is morbid as well, cause I'd like to know what happens as well?

[Ojoxsofeta]

So, what's WPA, WEP and WPA2?

Ojox, was it your car?!? If so, bummer! And, hey, tell me what happens when someone puts antifreeze in the transmission. Just morbid curiosity here.

Great story, LG!

And I've read the OOC and my last statement of Breena's action stands, as far as I'm concerned. Which didn't involve hitting anyone, as it turns out.

Not my car, thankfully.

And apparently, it shimmers like nobody's business when it tries to shift from third to four gear.

Also:

Brit smiles and nods, "As you wish." She then starts going about looking for logs and dragging them over to the dead body.

Anyone else thinking Princess Brides?

[Chris Chandler]

If they start smoochin', then my work here is done.

[LadyGlutter]

Anyone else thinking Princess Brides?

YES! I saw Brit as Westley and Breena wavering as Buttercup. They touched hands and I collapsed in giggles.

[Dalcassius]

Then Breena's about to get REALLY sad, cause this is the part of the story were Brit goes away for a long time.

[Chris Chandler]

NOW Brit is wearing a mask (they're terribly comfortable) and wearing a sash... That's just not right, mang.

[LightBringer]

Just a bunch of nuts. Lol. :nod:

[Gamebird]

Wasn't on my mind, but I see the briding. Huh - I wonder if they still use that term since Kill Bill introduced a new sort of bride?

Good that it wasn't your car, Ojox!

On another subject, I'm still bothered by that 30 year old elf child. Here are the options:
-- Elves are retarded or otherwise mentally disabled, OR
-- Elves begin their "adult" phase at an elevated level.

I just keep thinking of Breena standing there looking at Kaija and not being able to fathom her as a child. This is someone who is OLDER than Breena is. How and why is she treated as an innocent? Hasn't she done things in her life? Hasn't she seen thirty years of events?

Of course, the whole level thing in D&D is pretty wonky, when you can have a venerable geezer who's first level.

But back to those elves... Do they even look like children? Does Kaija look roughly like an 8 year old girl, with pointed ears? Or does she look like some kind of ageless waif and we're told she's the equivalent of 8? Is she emotionally immature? I'd tackle that one in more depth, but all the science I know is still mystified why human children are immature for a while and then straighten up, or why all mammals go through a "play" stage and then stop playing nearly so much.

Even a mentally retarded human matures a lot in 30 years. Even those who are characterized as having the mentality of a child. In 30 years, a human completes primary and secondary school, takes a year off to "find themselves" (ie, get laid and/or travel), lallygags around with a college degree and takes 5 years instead of 4, takes two years off to work a bit and have a failed relationship and a child, goes back for their masters, takes their time at it and get it in 3 years, and then gets a good start on a PhD. By the time someone is 30, there's been opportunity for a LOT of things to happen to them. Learning experiences, or at least experiences you could learn from.

Do elves just not learn from them? Do they forget 85% of what they learn, meaning it takes them 8 or 9 times as long to learn something as it takes a human?

I just really don't know how a human should react to an elf child. An elf adult can be related to as an adult, with a heavy dose of handwavium to get past their past. But even then there's the question of history. Do they automatically get ranks in Knowledge: History, or do they forget the events they lived through?

I dunno, just weird.

[Ojoxsofeta]

alright, i will be unable to post from now until like, 5 pm tonight

a bit of travel for work

[Chris Chandler]

GB -

I invite you to replace each instance of "elf" with "human", and to likewise replace each instance of "human" with "mayfly". To wit, a mayfly is born, matures, reproduces, and dies in such an amount of time that a human infant might not even be able to see quite yet. Are humans retarded? Do they just lag behind developmentally compared to mayflies? No, they are different.

Elves are different than humans. They have different physiologies, different social and cultural norms, and I think we do a disservice, as gamers in general, with the assumption that everything falls to the mean, that is, to men. Men are the second shortest-lived core race. Does that mean that they are retarded in comparison to Half-orcs? No, they are different.

You make an interesting point about the knowledge level of elves, but, again, elven society is completely different. What could be considered "ranks" in knowledge is focused on elven histories, culture, and other such things that humans, unless they are academics, wouldn't have the opportunity to know. It's outside the normal skill rank concept, because much of it isn't something that would apply to the aspects of the mechanical game.

[LadyGlutter]

I've not got time to get into this discussion today, but yeah -- Kaija looks like a kid.

[Dalcassius]

My attempt at writing a D&D joke.

Q: What do you call a gnomish book of baby names?
A: The big book of Gnomenclature!

Please send complaints to:
Chris. :P

[Ojoxsofeta]

My attempt at writing a D&D joke.

Q: What do you call a gnomish book of baby names?
A: Thebigbookognomenclature!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please send complaints to:
Chris. :P

FYP

[Gamebird]

I invite you to replace each instance of "elf" with "human", and to likewise replace each instance of "human" with "mayfly". To wit, a mayfly is born, matures, reproduces, and dies in such an amount of time that a human infant might not even be able to see quite yet. Are humans retarded? Do they just lag behind developmentally compared to mayflies? No, they are different.

Yes, they are different (humans and mayflies), and yes, humans lag developmentally behind mayflies. Mayflies don't have as much to develop as humans. Primarily they don't have to develop as much in size, but the complexity of their structure is very low compared to the complexity of the human structure.

It's not so much the physical aspect that troubles me, but the mental. A mayfly sees another mayfly get killed and thinks nothing of it. A human sees another human get killed and thinks a lot about it, possibly changing future behavior because of it. If the analogy holds, then you would expect an elf or other long-lived, sentient race with comparable INT and WIS stats to also learn from seeing a meaningful event like that. That elves do NOT learn at a comparable rate from seeing events is my point.

A better analogy would have been to compare humans to other real-world, long-lived creatures like whales, who easily get to several hundred years old. Unfortunately our understanding of whales and their intelligence is very poor. Their brains are larger than ours, they have a language and societies and they learn from events around them. Do they learn things as fast as a human, in their watery context? I don't know.

Men are the second shortest-lived core race. Does that mean that they are retarded in comparison to Half-orcs? No, they are different.

Yes, obviously humans are retarded compared to any shorter lived race that has no mental stat penalty (which half-orcs have), skill/knowledge rank penalty, etc. They are different. They are different in that it takes species A less time to learn what it takes species B to learn.

If the problem is the negative connotation of retarded, then pretend I'm saying "developmentally delayed" or "mentally handicapped".

You make an interesting point about the knowledge level of elves, but, again, elven society is completely different. What could be considered "ranks" in knowledge is focused on elven histories, culture, and other such things that humans, unless they are academics, wouldn't have the opportunity to know. It's outside the normal skill rank concept, because much of it isn't something that would apply to the aspects of the mechanical game.

Then they know *something*. Strange that they pick that sort of stuff up easily and not other stuff, like what different foods taste like, the location of the marketplace, the names of the mayors in the town they lived in, the names of the other townsfolk, current events, etc.

In a cloistered elven environment, you'd have a good point. Maybe they confine their youth in a non-stimulating environment and don't teach them anything, or allow them any new experiences. When an elf grows up in comparable circumstances/environment to a human though, then it breaks down.

I'm not trying to be irritating or argue. I'm just talking about something about the game system that's bugged me for the last couple months.

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, I think it's an interesting topic, to be sure - Who's irritated?

See, I think that you make the point with the "cloistered elven environment". The D&D elf is taken (perhaps with a grain of salt) from the Tolkien mindset, and, as such, is taking a page from a race where some members have lived from the very beginning of Middle Earth history. These same elves, we read, close themselves off in places like Rivendell, where people don't know they are there, or Mirkwood, where people fear to tread. Elves and dwarves have always had the portrayal of being isolated from all of that human-centric trouble. It's one of the reasons that when "real trouble" comes along, elves can be infuriating. They'll outlive the usurper-king's great-great-great grandchildren by hundreds of years. They'll be around so long that human societies will emerge, dominate, and vanish.

As a human, I cannot reasonably fathom that amount of knowledge. The elf, honestly, doesn't fit into the mold of D&D, because D&D has never been a game of longitudinal effort. It is a game of quick climbs to plateaus of immediate power where the game designers even developed a timeline of a year of play to get a character from level 1 to level 20. How does that fit into the, "I'll be alive for approximately 4 Roman Empires" mindset of an elf? It really doesn't. The particulars of races - society, culture, real physiology, etc., just simply aren't represented by the ruleset, and aren't reasonably detailed in any of the main campaign settings. I've always made sure elves have (even before skill ranks were involved) to just have an intuitive grasp of longitudial history and have details of "elven lore" simply not available to humans. Yes, they are just that much cheese, but how much does that actually affects the play within the context of the game - sometimes not at all, sometimes a great deal.

Developmentally (you made me snort with laughter about changing the euphamism) Elves do grow more slowly than humans. I've always thought of it this way. Humans are loblolly pines, and Elves are redwoods, in terms of development (obviously not size). They are categorically similar, but are really completely different entities.

[Gamebird]

...D&D has never been a game of longitudinal effort. It is a game of quick climbs to plateaus of immediate power where the game designers even developed a timeline of a year of play to get a character from level 1 to level 20.

Yeah, and that's annoying as hell when you're trying to really get into the mindset of a character, and imagine how she'd respond to a situation or a person, realistically.

If we were talking about another human, and here was a human who had been around for 30 years and had the mental capacity of an eight year old, then Breena would feel pity and perhaps disdain for them, perhaps protectiveness. She'd feel sorry for them either way. But instead it's an elf child and she's to take that this is a normal condition for the whole race. So does she feel sorry for the whole race? At 30, a human is a full adult unless they're handicapped/disabled in some way.

It's hard for me to get my mind around. And despite some insinuations to the contrary, I *do* try to role play, think in character, etc. I remain irritated to think that some don't think I measure up. Something I should just get over, I suspect. The opinions of others mean a lot to me.

The particulars of races - society, culture, real physiology, etc., just simply aren't represented by the ruleset, and aren't reasonably detailed in any of the main campaign settings.

Yeah. I've considered that perhaps elves need to start as 5th level characters, and dwarves/gnomes as 3rd, halflings as 2nd. But if we're doing that, then humans (and all races) should go up a level every couple decades - maybe one level every increment of their starting adult phase. So 1st level at 16 or 18 for a human, 2nd level at 32 or 36 (depending on which you picked), etc. Of course this would apply only to NPCs, as a guide for DMs. If the DM really wanted a 1st level venerable farmer, you can always toss the guidelines and have one.

D&D ignores a lot of things I'd like the ideal game system to address, but at the same time I can't see how it would address them without seriously overburdening the game. It's like I want them to leave the PHB and DMG as is, but come out with an additional book to address realism - things like pregnancy, disease, stat modifiers for children and less than 1st level/adult HD creatures, aging, infection, types of worship and prayer, how society and religion changes when gods really exist, some mechanic or random factor to make magic more malleable and less predictable, etc.

I've always made sure elves have (even before skill ranks were involved) to just have an intuitive grasp of longitudial history and have details of "elven lore" simply not available to humans.

Is there a word missing in there? Or some extra ones?

[Dalcassius]

The mental learning in a human is the representation of the growth of synapsis. It is quite possible that elves physically learn at a slower rate. A sort of survival mechanism put in place by mother nature. If the body is developing slower than the mind there are huge biological issues that could pop up. All the ones coming to mind however revolve around reproduction. I don't have a tremendous amount of biology science info; this is something that perhaps a med student could help with. Anyone know one?

I read a book that off hand mentioned elven reproductive cycles. It said that female elves were only able to become pregnant at certain times as mother natures way of making sure the long lived race didn't simple over populate themselves into extinction. Imagine where the earth would be if humans lived to be 1000 and still bred like we do. Dang.


And remember; D&D considers humans to be highly adaptable and terrific learners. This is represented by the extra skill points and the extra feat.

[Gamebird]

There's no real-world analogy to a gene or act of nature that keeps a species from over-populating. We have lots of examples of creatures overpopulating in the real world. Humans being the most egrigious.

[Dalcassius]

Good point. So ignoring my second paragraph, what do you think of the first?

[Gamebird]

I really don't know - that is, I have no basis for comparison or answer.

My son is 7. He's a nitwit. Really, I thought by now he'd have some brains, but he doesn't. Sometimes it seems like his 11 month old sister is smarter than he is. At least she seems to have more going on upstairs than he does. But on the other hand, I recall that my husband and I both thought he was very smart when he was small, or at least alert and engaged with his environment. A dog, by 7 years old, is entering old age for the larger breeds, middle age for the smaller ones. In either case, they'll know a variety of tricks, 5-10 words and perhaps display some surprising acts of intelligence. Their behavior will be much more *reliable* than my son's, but I wouldn't say they're smarter. He's not *that* nitwitted.

Humans are clearly one of the species whose mental development lags their physical the most. I can't think of any species that mental doesn't lag physical (barring species that are very simple, like arthropods, fish, etc.)

So yeah, I think an elf's mind would lag their body. Though I have to wonder what's up with their physiology that it takes them 8 times as long to mature physically as a human. What goes on inside of them that takes that long to grow? I'd assume it was whatever it is that lets them live so long. So in order for them to have the long lifespan, they must retard everything - physical, mental and emotional growth. Though that doesn't explain why an elf PC advances in level as fast as a human.

I think that would make for an intriguing game world - where elves (and other slow growing races) literally *can't* learn as fast as the shorter-lived races. It takes elves 8 times the xp to level up. The exception to this is if they make a mystical choice/experience some overdrive of adrenaline/go through a ritual/whatever, which means that from that point onward, they level as fast as the shorter lived races, but they also give up their long lives, burning out just as fast a human would, or perhaps even faster, but not so fast that's it's likely to impact the average D&D game.

That would allow for lofty, patient, slow-acting and fairly stupid elves (though as a society, no more stupid than any other), but also allow PCs (and elven hero NPCs, tragically martyred by losing their near-immortality) to play on a level with other races.

[LadyGlutter]

It's hard for me to get my mind around. And despite some insinuations to the contrary, I *do* try to role play, think in character, etc. I remain irritated to think that some don't think I measure up. Something I should just get over, I suspect. The opinions of others mean a lot to me.

Honestly, GB - I suspect I should just let this lie but it's been 2 days and it's still bugging me just as bad as the first time I read it, so I'm going to go ahead. Probably, you should get over it, if you think I insinuated that, because that's an incredible misunderstanding of what I said months ago. And to bring it up now when things seemed to be going smooth and we were all getting along and having fun... maybe I was wrong... tells me you might need to discuss it, so if it's a necessity to getting on with the game I'm here and will discuss it. If need be we can take it to PM, since the 'airing in the open' version seemed to backfire last time.

To be honest, Zora is probably the worst RP job I've done in my whole career. Just to illustrate, I feel a need to run most of my posts by the GM before I post them, so all the spontaneous nature is gone. And I can't get around it, because every time I try to be off the cuff something goes awry. Zora is WAY nicer in my head than she is in this game. I might just be too damn mean to play such a sweety, who knows? But if I felt like anyone didn't measure up, it would be me. The comments about getting into a character's mind came from your own statements that the depth of getting into a character to the point where conflict was inevitable was uncomfortable to YOU. You said it, and that's fine. It's just a different way of looking at roleplaying, but it did seem to me that was where the point of conflict between PLAYERS was coming from.

As far as the elven stuff, most of what I would have wanted to say has been said. I was looking at Kaija as an 8 year old human parallel. I don't mean she's stupid. I don't think kids are stupid, nor does Zora. (I think they do go through goofy stages in development, but mine at least are little brilliant genuises who put me to shame most days. :smiling:)

[Dalcassius]

Once when I was in Junior High (grades 7-9 for all the yanks) my father accused me of trying to make him feel stupid by using alot of big words. I hadn't been infact and since then I always feel awkward using my full vocabulary outside of RPing.

I'm not sure that's as "on topic" as it sounded in my head.

[Ojoxsofeta]

Once when I was in Junior High (grades 7-9 for all the yanks) my father accused me of trying to make him feel stupid by using alot of big words. I hadn't been infact and since then I always feel awkward using my full vocabulary outside of RPing.

I'm not sure that's as "on topic" as it sounded in my head.

What else would you expect from a Canadian though? My American dad never accused me of being too smart in any way that was not positive.

Edit: CrapXors. I need a smiley. :nervous:

[LadyGlutter]

Once when I was in Junior High (grades 7-9 for all the yanks) my father accused me of trying to make him feel stupid by using alot of big words. I hadn't been infact and since then I always feel awkward using my full vocabulary outside of RPing.

I'm not sure that's as "on topic" as it sounded in my head.

Did the Canuck just call me a YANK?! Ted in particular should be offended at that one. You need to hear my drawl to have me set it straight? Trust me, hon, I ain't no Yankee. :fun: (I know, I know, we all look the same to you...)

I thought it was perfectly on topic, however. It could be taken two separate ways, both of which applied. :) Even if your geography skills are a little off. ;)

[Dalcassius]

I only use the term yank to annoy Ted. :P
I retract the statement in general though specifically not from Ted.
And I'm more than a Canuck, I'm a Blue Noser.

[Gamebird]

Honestly, GB - I suspect I should just let this lie but it's been 2 days and it's still bugging me just as bad as the first time I read it, so I'm going to go ahead.

Yeah, I'm still feeling bad about myself about some of the comments that I took as me not knowing how to role play, or not role playing enough or correctly (or metagaming too much). Yes, I should probably "get over it". I bring it up now precisely *because* things are smooth. When things aren't smooth, I rarely want to bring up touchy subjects and make things worse. At least, not unless I'm spoiling for a fight. Which I'm not.

Things have been great recently and I'm trying real hard to get into the groove of dealing with PvP conflict in-character rather than out, which is how I've always dealt with it in my gaming career. The only in-character way I've ever seen PvP work out is with character death followed by someone leaving the group.

At least.... yeah, those are the only ways that come to mind. There was the time the guy had his own two characters turn on each other, but... no, he left the group too, when one of his PCs enlisted NPC aid and the DM had the NPCs take things further than the PC intended. Then there was the drow wannabe necromancer... no, he left the group. He was voted out and the DM disinvited him. Or... no, that turned out badly too.

The only things I've seen work was *very* friendly, careful rivalry, like a running contest about who had the most damage or most kills in a round and so forth. I can think of a few times where someone smeared someone else's character's reputation, but it was always more of a prank and not a serious disagreement between characters.

Now you might criticize the kind of games I've been in and that might be valid. But it doesn't change that my experience of gaming has predisposed me, has educated me, that a PvP situation should be headed off in a certain way. I tried that way. It didn't work, at all. It was awful. I won't try it again with this group. Now I'm trying it the way LB suggested.

Along the way of working out that my first approach to the problem was wrong, the comments about me not role playing right stung.

I think Zora is fine. I'm thrilled that the game has continued and my great break with gaming norms (or at least the norms of this group) didn't kill the game. I like the game. I like it a lot!

And I wuv all you guys!! :nod:

[Chris Chandler]

FYI, for anyone that listens or is concerned with Net radio:

www.pandora.com

It's been threatening for a while, but this is pretty much the last thing that they wanted.

[LightBringer]

Since I was mentioned I'll say this, I agree GB that PvP is a delicate thing. I too have seen it break a group, but I have also seen it taken in the manner it should be taken, at least as I think it should, and the players remembering it's a game and rising above the emotions of the character. (Is that a run on sentence?) Some of my best friends to this day have beaten or killed one of my characters, and I have done the same to theirs. Obviously, we don't intend to do this (well except for the one time I sacrificed the party to my god), but sometimes the paths we choose have bad endings.

No matter what happens though I have no intentions on leaving the game. If Brit can no longer play, then maybe I get to play her dad, (super :cool: ) , but Chris probably won't let me. ;)

[Ojoxsofeta]

I only use the term yank to annoy Ted. :P
I retract the statement in general though specifically not from Ted.
And I'm more than a Canuck, I'm a Blue Noser.

I'm more than a Yank - I'm a Blue Stater and a godless sodomite.

[Chris Chandler]

Oh, so you're the little blue dot we keep hearing about down here in God's country...

[LadyGlutter]

Ted: Godless sodomite huh? Hmmmm, good to meet another one of those. I mean, nothing to see here... *whistles innocently*

Dalcassius: We have Junior High down here too, Dal.

GB: Ok. Like I said, you want to talk, I'm here. I think things are going pretty good in character, and I understand where you're coming from. I have heard repeatedly the story about LB's character sacrificng the party to his god and I'm amazed he didn't get his ass handed to him on a paper plate for it.

LB: He wouldn't let me even NPC Bel, even when he got basic stuff WRONG! Of the pointy toe because of her boots indeed. Please. She was a tightrope walker.

Chris: I have nothing to say to you at this moment in time but didn't want you feeling left out. EDIT! you are NOT doing this to me are you?! Good grief, I have to break the news to them!? Nice.

[Dalcassius]

I find that its 50/50 with the American's I talk to. Some know what I'm talking about other don't. I figured I'd err on the side of caution.

[Chris Chandler]

We have had a push toward "middle schools" that are basically grades 4-6, and sometimes all the way to 8th grade, with mixed success, but I went to a (well, two) junior high.

[LadyGlutter]

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about putting the brakes on the flow of where you were going there, GB. I just can't possibly see Zora letting anyone touch that rope yet. She had a horrible vision of watching those on the surface "help" explain this to the kids while they stared at a bloody giant bear sized wolf. Zora would rather NOT have this duty but she feels strongly she's got to do it even if she fumbles it on her own.

[Gamebird]

LOL. No, that's fine. You're right that Breena's explanation might not be all that graceful or smooth.

[LadyGlutter]

I don't think there's any way for this to be graceful or smooth, to be quite honest. Ugh. It's so very very sad, and I'm having to take breathing breaks from imagining having to be the one to break 12 little hearts.

[Gamebird]

Hey, we could always have let Hoylur explain it... ;D

[Ojoxsofeta]

I would have to have a break in my work schedule to do that, now wouldn't I?

[LadyGlutter]

:\. Super busy, O?

[Ojoxsofeta]

well, we've actually been working at work and thusly they're watching our internet use and length of breaks and lunches// thusly I have not been able to check the boards til 2:30, where all I can do is read the posts // I'm also terribly busy at home with having to get ready to move in the next thirty days // also i am breaking up thoughts with slashes as a result of work // pissin' me off

[LadyGlutter]

You're moving again?!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To the OOC: I'm trying to figure out where to put the kids, with info that I know Zora has that I'm lost on.

Theodrada's is in no condition, and I'm not keeping them in that hole if I can help it. We may end up going back there as a safe place, in fact I plan on making that our 'storm shelter' in a bit, but for now, I want to figure out where to go.

The Cross farm and Hannigan farm are both outskirts. Even though the Crosses have room and the house is safe, it's a couple of miles, right? Not good enough.

Do the Sajid's have room? If so that's fine and we'll go there, but I think not. What about adjacent homes in the town square? Even the pub, if it's solidly built, can be a big playhouse for now. There's kitchens and an outhouse.

[Chris Chandler]

If you guys are thinking about a single solid structure, the two best places would be the Sajid Manor and the tavern. The Sajid manor, though, would be a good be more cozy than Mathilde's.

[Chris Chandler]

In this case cozy=cramped.

[LadyGlutter]

Awesome. Now I want to know how close the tavern and Sajid manor are.

[Ojoxsofeta]

You're moving again?!

Yeah, I'm moving again. But this time, I won't be reliant on a dumb-as-rocks roommate to set up the wireless connection for which he was in no hurry to set up because he was stealing bandwith off another neighbor.

But yeah, it's been ten months and I hate the people I live with, so it's time to move.

[Chris Chandler]

Awesome. Now I want to know how close the tavern and Sajid manor are.

The Sajid manor is along the perimeter of the colony square, much in the same way as Theodrada's manor - They look across the square at each other, with Theodrada to the Northwest and the Sajid manor to the South-southwest, about 150 yards from the River Gate. Bertrand's, that is, Mathilde's tavern is pretty central, about 50 yards east from the central well (you know, the well), close to the mercantile, hostler, and the cooper. That puts Mathilde's about 300 yards from the Sajid manor, walking southwest from the tavern to the manor.

Writing this description only put the cork in the bottle about me needing to make a freaking map.

[Chris Chandler]

June was nice while it lasted.

LG's having 'net crap-out issues again. Hopefully she'll be up and running in short order, but you never know with Charter.

[LadyGlutter]

Hi.

That's a looong post. ;) I'm reading it now. Knock wood that I can reply before it crashes.

[Dalcassius]

Chris, from the discussion currently happening in the tavern, how many hours before sun set?

[Chris Chandler]

You've got a good 4 hours or so. I'd say it's after lunchtime, and it gets darker pretty early in the afternoon this late into the winter

[Dalcassius]

Since wrist watches and town clocks are a little off.... If Kirfah wanted to mark a period two hours after sunset, what celestial event would he use to signify that? The rising of the (a) moon or a constellation or a specific star, etc.

[LightBringer]

Just a reminder, I'll be gone until next week. I'll have no access at all after tomorrow at lunch.

[Chris Chandler]

I'll keep Brit's special brand of crazy under control until you get back, LB. Good luck and study hard!

[Dalcassius]

*poke*
Since wrist watches and town clocks are a little off.... If Kirfah wanted to mark a period two hours after sunset, what celestial event would he use to signify that? The rising of the (a) moon or a constellation or a specific star, etc.

[LadyGlutter]

Here's my prediction... he's gonna tell you to make something up. That's what he told me earlier this week when I asked how to describe puberty without using the words "teenager" or "puberty". Notice there is no reference to such in the IC thread. I was coming up blank for "coming of age" titles appropriate to a backwoods colony that would span all the cultures present. It's weird how strange little things like that get so complicated.

[Chris Chandler]

No, thank you very much... I was pondering. I had some notes on the astrology of the region, but I believe it's Imperial in nature... that is... the other side of the world.

[LadyGlutter]

Is it the same hemisphere? I thought it was. If it's not then just... crap.

[Chris Chandler]

That's a good point - it is the same hemisphere, so the night sky will only be different by perspective, not a completely different sky.

Good catch, LG!

[Chris Chandler]

*poke*

Right -

There are three stars that come out, very early in the evening, in the eastern horizon, and form a wide isosceles triangle, with a bright red star at the top, and two bright blue stars flanking on the bottom. Years ago, scholars called them Anu's Daughters (Anu is known as an elder deity), but nowadays folks, especially on the fringes of the Empire (including this colony) refer to the three stars as the Three Ladies, marking Enbarra, Valasia, and Nystula as a sort of collective of powers. The Conclave recognizes the constellation, but hardliners within the respective Theshian temples considers such a term heresy, as Valasia is part of the Theshian cosmology, not part of some backwater cult.

Be that as it may, the Three Ladies mark the arrival of evening, if you look to the eastern sky.

[Dalcassius]

Much thanks for this Chris.

[Chris Chandler]

XP, people!

Death With Fangs was worth 1600 exp. for everyone that participated in the conflicts. Zora was not involved in actually defeating DWF, but she did encounter him first. That means, unfortunately, that Zora gets a two-thirds share (1200) for DWF.

Kirfah and Zora get 150 x Level (600 ea) for good RP from the arrival of the group back from Last Breath.

Zora gets an individual award of 400 xp for the capitulation of good ideas, good memory, and overall good play. Zora, specifically, was much busier throughout the out-of-combat period, and was, indeed, instrumental in retrieving the children. In fact, her "non-combatant" personality was well-played at this point.


The group gets 900 (the afflicted) + 700 (the children) exp apiece for a story goal award.

The group gets 500 exp apiece for maturely dealing with a serious in-game/out-of-game conflict.

Breena - 3,700 exp.
Brit - 3,700 exp.
Hoylur - 3,700 exp.
Kirfah - 4,300 exp.
Zora - 4,300 exp.

[Ojoxsofeta]

so... we effectively double our XP totals then, or is my XP totally off?

[Gamebird]

The last xp record I have is curing Hannigan. Here's what I have:
Experience:
Starting (roll 5d100) 219
Rescue Jurgen & wife 188
Defeat burglar 150
Role play 150
Travel to White Rock Flats 100
Camp Encounter 450
Diplomatic solution to DW 125
Dogs vs. Ancestors 457
River slave runners 1025
Ambush Foster and men 360
Catching Foster 360
Progress to 4th level 2416
Story award curing Hannigan 300
Deal with Death w/ Fangs 3700

Progressing to 4th level was just a "you all get enough xp to bring you to 4th" sort of deal, so I took the xp so far accumulated, subtracted it from the 6000 needed for 4th, and added that in as a line item. I might be missing something. I'd thought we'd have gotten xp for the trial of Foster, but maybe that's subsumed into the 3700.

I would note that if Breena was 4th level, then received 300 for the curing of Hannigan and 3700 for dealing with DWF, then she's got 10,000, enough for 5th level. And so does everyone else, at minimum. Should I progress on to 5th level (ie, email you HD rolls, designate skill ranks, etc.)?

[Chris Chandler]

That was the plan, actually. Through proper development, RP, and story awards, everyone should be right over the 5th level line (is this correct? I don't think anyone had drifted behind). I planned for this stage of the campaign to hit right at around 10k exp. Good work everyone! This was a very crucial piece, and I was terribly concerned it was going to be poorly served with our real life issues, OOC conflict, and the transfer from one forum to another. I'd really like to thank everyone in this whole group for their dedication and hard work towards this game. It's because of each and every one of you that this game has been a success. I'd especially like to thank LightBringer and Gamebird. I know that you both chose the harder path, and I really appreciate it.

I would say that with this IC upcoming meeting, we're entering a new phase of the campaign, even though many points are still unresolved. I'm happy that we've made it this far, especially through PbP. Congratulations everyone. You all have been great!

On a crunchy note, I'd like to point out that having "stacked deck" high-CR beasties getting pwned is exactly why really challenging combats don't focus on one individual enemy, but rather an enemy force. Seriously, which battle was more of a challenge, the low-CR force of Red-eye, or a CR 10 DWF? :roll:

[Ojoxsofeta]

The last xp record I have is curing Hannigan. Here's what I have:
Experience:
Starting (roll 5d100) 219
Rescue Jurgen & wife 188
Defeat burglar 150
Role play 150
Travel to White Rock Flats 100
Camp Encounter 450
Diplomatic solution to DW 125
Dogs vs. Ancestors 457
River slave runners 1025
Ambush Foster and men 360
Catching Foster 360
Progress to 4th level 2416
Story award curing Hannigan 300
Deal with Death w/ Fangs 3700

Progressing to 4th level was just a "you all get enough xp to bring you to 4th" sort of deal, so I took the xp so far accumulated, subtracted it from the 6000 needed for 4th, and added that in as a line item. I might be missing something. I'd thought we'd have gotten xp for the trial of Foster, but maybe that's subsumed into the 3700.

I would note that if Breena was 4th level, then received 300 for the curing of Hannigan and 3700 for dealing with DWF, then she's got 10,000, enough for 5th level. And so does everyone else, at minimum. Should I progress on to 5th level (ie, email you HD rolls, designate skill ranks, etc.)?

The XP is out of date on my character sheet then. Blast it.

[LadyGlutter]

I would say they were exactly the same to me.

:P

[Chris Chandler]

Well, just you go look at the goodies you get for 5th level. Then we'll start talking...

[Ojoxsofeta]

Well, just you go look at the goodies you get for 5th level. Then we'll start talking...

If memory serves, a feat and fireball.

But I don't get evocation. So a feat and dispel magic and haste.

Mmm... haste.

[LightBringer]

I'm back now. I still have to focus until test on Friday, but I'll post when
I can.

[Ojoxsofeta]

okay, so chris you should have a copy of Hoylur in your inbox

[Dalcassius]

Kirfah, I believe, is fully up to date. Link PM'd.

[Ojoxsofeta]

News from Chris is that a child's soul is priceless, so I shouldn't have any problem converting the abundance of orphans we have on hand into the material requirements for wands of false life.

LEFTW

[Chris Chandler]

I also informed him that Hoylur has his own handwoven, custom handbasket for his ride to hell.

[Ojoxsofeta]

I also informed him that Hoylur has his own handwoven, custom handbasket for his ride to hell.

Handbasket? Dude's got the keys to the bus.

[Gamebird]

759 pages down in 10.5 hours. No sleep last night for me... and now the long haul to stay awake all day so I don't *completely* frack my sleep cycle.

Ah, Harry Potter, you are a harsh master! But at the end of the book I was satisfied. I did not feel let down and on the surface, to my sleepless, hastily-read brain, the logic of the series seemed internally consistent. I liked it. I give it 5 out of 5 stars. Truly a fitting ending, in keeping with the rest of the series.

[Dalcassius]

August 4th and my long wait is over. Red Seas Under A Red Sky comes out. Book two of the Gentleman Bastards Series. If you haven't haven't read The Lies of Locke Lamora already, stop depriving yourself.

I actually stumbled across an uncorrected book proof of The Lies of Locke Lamora in a stairwell while doing my job. It's a fantastic book. So good that the author, Scott Lynch, was given a book deal AND a movie deal after only sending in the first chapter to the publisher. I'm so excited for the new book and the hopeful five others to follow.

[Gamebird]

I'll be on the lookout for it. Never heard of it though, and a movie deal one chapter into a book seems a bit hasty, no matter how good the book is.

[Dalcassius]

Sorry, my mistake. He received a seven book deal after the publisher read the first (and maybe second) chapter(s), he sold the movie rights shortly after the book was released; According to wikipedia. However I heard about the movie deal <i>before</i> the books official release. I've been reading Scott Lynch's LJ since April 2006 before the book release in June 2007 and even traded a few emails back and forth with him about an RPG adaption. Turns out he's looking at the Ars Magicka system. I was hoping for a d20 set.

And having just done a search on the interweb, the US release of the Red Seas Under Red Skies is July 31. I've got to wait the extra 24 hours you lucky bastards.
Also there has been a re-release of The Lies of Locke Lamora this passed June. A "mass-market" paperback.

16 months of waiting almost over.

[LadyGlutter]

I'm only about 500 pages into Deathly Hallows, but I appreciate the discretion, GB. ;) I feel this amazing pressure to finish before I get to work tonight. One of the guys at work took his lunch break with his sweety Saturday and she told him the ending "accidentally". Come on now, you don't spoil years of anticipation like that on accident. He was seriously trying to decide if that was a breakupable offense... I almost cried for him. Last book, I overheard snippets and read just pieces of words that tipped me off on the net. So this go, I'm limiting my exposure to other people until they can't spoil the book for me. I read what you wrote and thought, nooooo, please don't say anything that gives any hints.... :P

I shall also take the book recommendation to heart, Dal. Yesterday was a glorious lazy Sunday like I haven't had in ages. I forget how much I love to just READ. The kids were so cute, too. The 3 year old found the "purple Harry Potter book" (Sorceror's Stone) and sat beside me "reading" the better part of the day. So I don't feel as guilty spending a day wrapped up in a book as I thought I would, since the whole family sort of shared it with me. :) Maybe I finally can start to do more reading than I used to.

[Gamebird]

No hints from me. Part of why I read it so quickly and with such determination was because of my husband. He's the sort who *has* to tell the ending if he already knows it. Of course, he borrowed a friend's book for an hour or so Saturday morning so he could skip ahead, read the last few chapters and know how things turned out. Hence, I spent the night reading the rest, because I knew as soon as he woke up he'd want to tell me about it.

I think it's a break-up-able offense, mainly because of the insensitivity of it. Does he really want to go through life with someone who will ruin his fun for him? Who takes pleasure from spoiling things for him? I've got that cross to bear, and I'd suggest he run while he can.

[Chris Chandler]

I'm actually starting the book today - I'll have a "kid's are at the grandparents and wife's a-working" afternoon and evening, so I'll have no distractions. Now that I'm saying that, the sinkhole beneath the apartment will make itself known, if only to keep me from reading.

[LadyGlutter]

You'll note that Kirfah and Mathilde, with the strong backs of Zora and Hoylur, have made some decent progress, framing out a number of decent-sized bunks lining the walls of the dining area of the tavern.


That's right -- you better use those italics, bitch! ;)

[Gamebird]

The husband has finally decided to make the much-discussed (by him) and much-dreaded (by me) trip to Lake Superior, the Apostle Islands and surrounds. Luckily, it doesn't involve anyone but us. No kids, no gamer friends. Just us. I don't think we've had 24 hours together/alone in... um... 7 years? Yeah.

Anyway, I'll be away from keyboard 8/1, 8/2 and 8/3.

[Dalcassius]

Enjoy the trip GB.

[LightBringer]

Have fun.

[Dalcassius]

So my plan had been to write up a post last night when I got home. However, after making my post in the IC thread yesterday, I got some news from a friend who was moving out of the province this Friday. She had hurt her back, was taking the next three days off of work and moving this morning. So rather than going home after work, we got as many people as we could at the last minute and threw a going away party for a friend who I've known for only about a year and who, in the last 8 months, has been one of my best friends.
I will write something up tonight when I get home. I think...

[LightBringer]

Lol, that's the way it usually works. No rush though, since GB will be gone for a couple days.

[Gamebird]

Eh, trip may or may not happen, but it's not happening today.

[Dalcassius]

I'm sorry again guys. I got back from a BBQ at my mothers place later than I thought and the anti-insect candles she was burning gave me a splitting head ache. I'm going to get this done if its the last thing I do.

[Gamebird]

I hope it's not the last thing you do.

[LadyGlutter]

Me too. Feel better, Dal. And GB, whenever you go on your trip, enjoy it.

Heck, while we've got a moment? Ojox, you moved in and comfy in your new place yet?

[Ojoxsofeta]

Oy - sort of.

I spent three days cleaning my stove and oven.

I'm not exactly in love my landlord right now.

Also, I did my laundry for the first time since I moved. It's coin operated. The exact same ones I had in college.

[LightBringer]

Ahhhhh, real life, don't you love it? :cool:

[Dalcassius]

I'd take the coin opperated over token opperated. I hate having to make sure I have enough tokens. I'd rather just be able to run to the store and break a bill.

[Ojoxsofeta]

I'd take the coin opperated over token opperated. I hate having to make sure I have enough tokens. I'd rather just be able to run to the store and break a bill.

Hey man, don't complain because the looney looks like a token.

My last place had a free washer and dryer in the basement. That's about the only thing I'm going to miss.

[Chris Chandler]

We do the coin-op thing too. We have like 5 regular washers, 3 of the front loaders and a ginormous industrial 3-load behemoth and 10 driers, and lemme tellya, I pretty much wait until after 9 PM to do laundry. Otherwise, I can't get a machine.

[Dalcassius]

It's L-O-O-N-I-E. So nyah!

[LadyGlutter]

Yeah, we moved to an awesome set of new apartments. The ONLY thing superior in our last place was my beloved washer and dryer. I just THOUGHT I hated doing laundry before. Now I don't even get to enjoy the spin cycle.

[Dalcassius]

:paranoid: ....
I... did she just... look, something else unrelated is over there.

[Gamebird]

We're back. What a short trip. Drive 5 hours each way so we could sit on a boat for 3 hours and eat at a couple places. Though I must say the room and huge jacuzzi were sweet. Especially without kids.

[Gamebird]

Wand fodder?

[LadyGlutter]

Who, me? No... I would never insinuate anything of the kind! :fun:

EDIT:

Okay, ummmmmm.... so we're about to spend two months getting the story as it stands straight, aren't we? Because I'm tripping out with just how different my view of events is to what has already been posted by Breena and Kirfah. It's going to take forever to sort this out.

[Ojoxsofeta]

It's L-O-O-N-I-E. So nyah!

And you can't even spell!

Wand fodder explanation: Chris informed me, when queried as to the cost of a human soul in relation to the GP costs of crafting a wand, that the human soul was "priceless."

Wands o' false life, here I come.

[Chris Chandler]

As a point of issue, I'd like to think we could move pretty quickly on this discussion. We've been grinding our gears pretty slowly for the better part of this year. I know the reasons, but now that we're in this situation, I think it would go a long way if we used this meeting as a focus for getting the group back into "fighting shape". Keep in mind that I am definitely not saying that we need to finesse things, here. What I am saying is that if you, as a player, have a question about what's going on, why not channel it through your character as part of this discussion. I think that in most cases, that would be appropriate, and it would expedite the entire process.

Now, now, Ojox... You know that there is always a price. You'd be burning more than just XP with a move that. :roll:

And Dal, I have it on good authority that those who use the spin cycle for recreation only do so because they simply don't know how to play the game properly themselves.

[Ojoxsofeta]

As a point of issue, I'd like to think we could move pretty quickly on this discussion. We've been grinding our gears pretty slowly for the better part of this year. I know the reasons, but now that we're in this situation, I think it would go a long way if we used this meeting as a focus for getting the group back into "fighting shape". Keep in mind that I am definitely not saying that we need to finesse things, here. What I am saying is that if you, as a player, have a question about what's going on, why not channel it through your character as part of this discussion. I think that in most cases, that would be appropriate, and it would expedite the entire process.

Now, now, Ojox... You know that there is always a price. You'd be burning more than just XP with a move that. :roll:

And Dal, I have it on good authority that those who use the spin cycle for recreation only do so because they simply don't know how to play the game properly themselves.

A bit of my own soul, blah blah blah.

You think he'd actually suck the souls out of a bunch of invalids to make some wands with you guys around? Talk about a quick road to "Axenhead."

Besides, the invalids wouldn't garner as much value as a child would. I mean, you'd get the virgin premium (possibly), but Evil pays top dollar for innocence.

[Dalcassius]

Ted... none on the PC's even carry axes. What a goof. :roll:

[Gamebird]

...I think it would go a long way if we used this meeting as a focus for getting the group back into "fighting shape".

Fighting shape? LOL! You've got to be kidding. Right? Any time we're at full hit points and wearing our armor (and for those who have them, have spells loaded), we're in "fighting shape". The real issue here is the frikkin' riddle of steel. It really doesn't matter if our characters are in good shape for a fight if we have no understanding of who and why we should fight. And that's my situation right now.

...if you, as a player, have a question about what's going on, why not channel it through your character as part of this discussion. I think that in most cases, that would be appropriate, and it would expedite the entire process.

Okay, but doing so may result in my character voicing ignorance about things that are PATENTLY OBVIOUS to the character in the game. So I'll look like a blithering idiot, but if that's the only way to do it, then here goes... ::heads off to IC thread::

[LadyGlutter]

And Dal, I have it on good authority that those who use the spin cycle for recreation only do so because they simply don't know how to play the game properly themselves.

Fine, be that way. Throw my own words up to haunt me. I actually can't believe you mentioned that. I was just playing, sheesh. You win, I finally blushed very, very much. Happy?

So... what other things has Hoylur been doing in the name of Evil when PCs weren't looking? Hmmmm.... this must all be Hoylur's doing. Makes no sense, it must be right!

Ummmmm... I keep staring at the in character and coming up blank. Yeah, I'll stick with the silly banter and nonsensical ramblings of an exhausted player (yay, I'm a blithering idiot OOC and IC!!) because I don't even know where to approach IC stuff just yet. Maybe tomorrow. Are we as characters supposed to answer the characters on such stuff? Because I could give a decent layman's guide to the gods and stuff but I don't know that Zora would have ... yeah, I"m having a hard time wrapping my head around Breena's last speech especially and how to naturally as a character answer it.

[Gamebird]

Well, I've just finished reading pages 70-150 of Chris' pdf and that was certainly very helpful. Now, for the first time, I understand why Gunther was important to the trial of Foster, as a priest of Hurion. I just have the very strong impression that LB, LG and especially Chris doesn't get how much in the dark I often am about why the game is going in the directions it is. And now I understand why LB's character is constantly sprouting weird new powers (though if he/she becomes a cleric of Anu, I'm out of here).

Now the main question is how much of that Breena would know. Without ranks in Knowledge: Religion, does she know who Faustus is? Or who the Ladies are? Or that little throw-away line in the Gi stuff about who "North Star" is?

[LadyGlutter]

Everyone:

THE NORTH STAR IS SOMETHING NEW. Or rather something super ancient and hidden. Cthulhu Fthagn. No one knows ANYTHING!

That is all. I just wanted to straighten you all out. LOL

[Chris Chandler]

Without ranks in religion, Bree'd know who, and maybe a little bit of what, but she wouldn't know how or why. She'd know Faustus as a Theshian boogeyman, and farmers (even your dad) have a penchant for saying bitter prayers to Faustus to keep cattle from getting sick, but she really wouldn't have a lot of detail into the nature of the cult. Brit and Kirfah, otoh, have a pretty good understanding of that, because they've studied.

You understand how LB's character is sprouting powers? I'm not sure he does, but okay... :roll: Priests of Anu are hands-off. It'd be like a Union Sentinal or a Divine Emissary - an epic PrC, if it were ever to see meaningful play.

Bree knows Valasia and Enbarra as good as most laity, mostly because those are the Colony's patrons, along with Hurion, and to an even lesser extent, Heru. The Theshian Empire is a Theocratic Monarchy, and as such, it's citizens (yes, you) have enough exposure to note the trappings of their own faith, though only the actually devout and learned understand what makes it work.

LG hit it right on the head - this new Gi power, even the Celestial Beaureacracy in general - This is New Stuff (tm) to most everybody. Even an "Old Hat" like Sir Cross had only ventured out into the Far Reaches to rescue some folks - he did not stop to make polite conversation. There's been relatively little cultural exchange between Theshians and the Jiating, and even less with the Zuihou. The North Star is a Gi cult, to boot, so it's like 6 steps removed from a Yeoman's daughter's knowledge. Going back to the subject "experts", Brit and Kirfah really, seriously don't know any more than to what you, as a group, have been exposed. Now, they'll be most readily able to peice together The North Star's purpose in the Gi cosmology (given the proper sources), but that still gives litting direct insight into why her minions are digging around here. Other clues have filled that niche.

I know that there is a lot of information out here, but don't think that LB and LG have any sort of serious advantage here. I haven't been using details from anything that is inaccessible to anyone, that is, there isn't "old campaign" baggage here, outside from an NPC connection (which, honestly, has been minimal). It's all in the threads. The biggest issue that this entails, of course, is that we've been at this for 2 1/2 years, and each thread is over 300 pages of posting. It's not quite as dense as a novel page, but it's not an easy prospect, either.

[LightBringer]

Just to be clear, I know Brit doesn't know anything about the North Star. In her opinion being referenced with Faustus, simply gives her the impression of, as Chris said, the boogeyman, or boogeyperson, whichever you prefer. :fun:

No, I have no idea why I sprout new powers. I have never read the text, and I'm not going to start now. I like having things suprise the crap out of me. I don't want to know what to expect. On the same note, I decided not to reread the threads. Brit is just going to go with the way she remembers things. If it's wrong, oh well, it's wrong. :nod:

[Gamebird]

LB brings up an excellent issue - how much of character powers and abilities are under the conscious control of the character? Do spell casters know that they are consciously trying to cause a specific spell effect to occur? Do warriors know that they are trying to perform a specific combat manuever? Do monks (and barbarians and knights of Valasia) know they are using a certain type of stride (or whatever the in-game description is) to run faster?

Or are these mysterious things that surprise the crap out of the characters and the characters treat it as a strange and bizarre occurence, perhaps the influence of a divine power, unknown spell, etc.?

If Brit (and other PCs and NPCs) have no idea how they get or use their class abilities, then that will strongly change how I/Breena interact with them. For one thing, I'll never ask for a spell to be cast again, or a class ability to be used, because Breena won't know any more than Brit or other characters, that these powers are under the control of the people using them.

I've been in games where PCs tried to pretend their characters didn't understand how they cast their own spells and the player said the character channeled power that just happened to match a given spell effect. Then the character would say they didn't know where that came from or how to intentionally summon that power/ability again... until the next time they were in a life and death situation, when suddenly they were able to repeat it.

[Gamebird]

A different element I wanted to ask about is that random NPC generator table. Is it an accurate representation of the population? Are there really 6% of the population that's 15th level or higher, or did I read that wrong?

Average level also factors into how believable it is for characters not to know about their own powers. If the average level is high, then you're going to have a lot of people with similar powers (unless the DM intends to house rule/customize every/most NPCs and say that PCs use the book list of powers). And if they get these powers in a predictable way, then I can't see a new ability gained at a relatively low level (like 3rd or 4th) surprising someone. Like, say, I'd expect the temple of Valasia to have a good idea of what their knights' powers are and to have some sort of training regimen for them, or at least recognition ceremonies or somesuch.

Sort of like how if girls who start having their periods are able to conceive children, then that's a big mark recognized by even the most backwards and ignorant of cultures. People tell little girls that it's coming and to some extent what it means.

A person playing a barbarian who has little or no contact with other barbarians (say, Breena) has a lot more logic to being surprised by her abilities than someone playing a member of an established clergy/knighthood, with a local temple (well, used to have one), that doesn't include ignorance and illiteracy as part of their doctrine.

Edit: I want to add that I'm not angry, just perplexed. This is a very different way of gaming/playing than I'm used to and from the way I understand. It's not that I haven't seen people play this way before. I've had people tell me that their character, who has taken 73 hit points of damage and has 4 hit points left feels fine and doesn't realize he's hurt at all. Seriously. "No, I'm not hurt at all. Hit points are an abstraction. My character feels perfectly fine and is ready to charge into battle. I don't need healing." Said character died in the next combat and the player was upset - though I couldn't really fathom why. And as I said before, I've seen players say their characters couldn't cast their own spells intentionally, though they oddly had no problem doing it when the player decided it was time. They just wouldn't do it at the request of other players or NPCs (though sometimes they'd roll a die to see if they could "force" themselves to cast something, then determine randomly what they cast, or the player would insist they cast something inappropriate - the sort of player who loves Wands of Wonder and a CN alignment... I suppose they enjoy themselves, but it doesn't work for me).

[Dalcassius]

I've never discussed this with Chris, but I've been playing Kirfah as holding an understanding of his abilities. He has been to a strict and disciplined academy and has seem the results of dedicated focus on talents such as his. He practices (behind the scenes) and readies himself to grow in such a way that he can accomplish new tasks. He sees is like growing in height. A young child can't reach the middle or top shelf, but s/he knows what is up there and for now just deals with being able to reach the bottom shelf.

[LadyGlutter]

I have a number of comments here. I'm going to step in as the longest standing player and close to co-DM in several Kuralia campaigns and take on some questions as a generalized thing. If Chris wants to get more into specifics he can, but here's some thoughts for you:

There is more "old campaign baggage" than you let on here, Chris. Maybe not in terms of Game World knowledge, because as you know both LB and I have this suspense building mentality to our roleplaying that keeps us from reading your guide in minute detail because it might change the campaign to know too much. However, there is a good bit of, "this is what Sir Cross was like and also his family, and this is what Bel was like and how she would have interacted with the Cross family" that does lend us a bit of comfort to having a history that GB doesn't necessarily have with Breena. I think that is a valid point, but I also think it's important to stress that the answers AIN'T IN THE GUIDE BOOK. This game is much more multifaceted than a simple module that has a right and wrong answer.

Some of the issues we are having difficulties with, such as the Ladies and different dieties, were covered in character conception. I had the idea that dieties overlapping the way they do, and LB and I wanting to play sisters worshipping different but SYNERGISTIC dieties, we might sometimes pray to the goddess that the other does. I'm much more loosy goosy religion wise in general than some people are and that's how I wanted to play Zora. Different paths to the same goal, not everything being black and white. The Three Ladies was a concept that Chris came up with to cover that. A LOT of the stuff that is going on in this campaign is NEW stuff in that way. Every time Dalcassius asks Chris about calendars or money exchanges or whatever, it builds Kuralia a little more. This stuff is far more fluid and we're in the process of building it. Chris is very very adamant that parts of the campaign world are the players who created them.

Example, Rock Gnomes are my baby. Bofala Glutterstarfinkel was the prototype for creating a whole race of creatures. When Bel and Nathanial went into Rock Gnome territory, Chris asked me exactly what would be in the city and how the town would be run. The Valasian knighthood is new. And your 'expert' on it, so to speak, would be LB. They might actually NOT know why they are getting the powers they are getting now while they are getting them. I'm thinking they wouldn't because they are such a foundling order.

Every question you ask though, would not necessarily BE something characters would know. Kirfah knows something of everything, being as he took KNOWITALL as his class. :fun:

Some of the questions asked though are yours to answer, is my long roundabout point. Did Breena go to temple? Who would know that but Gamebird? Why would the GM know how you saw your character? Are people superstitious? It's society! Some people are, some are not -- but there's lots of SUPER NATURAL around so you can bet that there's plenty of superstition involved.

Not everything is in the book. And looking for the answers to the "riddle of steel" through the stuff we know is fine and all. But knowing every minutae of every detail is taxing our GM, whether he admits it or not, and it is also making the game very difficult to play for each and every one of us. I'm not saying ask no questions, but the point of getting overwhelmed is happening to more than just me. I'm pretty sure all of us are overwhelmed in this game in one way or another, or at least there's too much to keep up with and we say, "screw it, I'll catch up when I can". That might not be overwhelmed but it's admitting it's out of control right now.

Hell, I'm overwhelmed knowing I left out probably about 10 points I meant to make but this is long enough.

Eh. When Chris comes back from his meeting I may be flayed. Oh well.