[d20 & Dreamblade]Game within games

[Black Plauge]

While I haven't actually played the game since it came out, I've been keeping up to date with the Dreamblade website since before the game's release and feel that I have a fairly good grasp of the game (though by no means tournament caliber).

Besides the minis, for which I've downloaded every picture to use as minis in CC3, I've been really impressed by the games backstory as exemplified in the ongoing fiction on the site, Cathedral of Thorns.

The backstory has so impressed me that I started wondering today, as I was reading the most recent update, about the possibility of including the Dreamscape in a more traditional RPG campaign. Characters would be dreamlords in addition to their Waking World persona.

The first decision in this kind of game, would obviously be for the game system of the Waking World. Cathedral of Thorns chooses the modern world (d20 Modern), but I think that any type of campagin setting could work.

The second decision in this kind of game is how to handle the Dream World. While Dreamscape provides well codified rules for how to handle a battle between two dreamlords (and a simple modification could make it handle random encounters with dream denziens), a dreamlord doesn't spend all their time in the Dream World engaged in battle. They also explore, discovering or creating new denziens and locations etc. Of course, it being the Dream World, the dreamlord, being a Lucid Dreamer, would have control over the enviroment and phenomenal abilities. Perhaps the best way to represent that would be with high level spellcasters.

Thus, in effect, each character would need two character sheets. One to define their waking world statistics and one to define their Dream World statistics.

The final problem to work out would be connections between the two Worlds. Since happenings in the Dream World can effect things in the Waking World (and vis versa) there should be some codified rules for handling those connections.

What do people think of this kind of idea? How would you handle the different things that would come up in such a game? Would you play in one?

[Mercutio]

I actually have the same thoughts on Dreamblade. I posted on threbb as soon as it was mentioned and really think the development of the game is interesting. I had wondered about inclusion in a game. At one point I had worked out including M:tG into tabletop D&D, using it as a gambling/betting game. Working in Dreamblade would be interesting, but I'm not sure about the crossover from the dreamworld to the real world.

[akiko]

Wow. That sounds awesome BP.

I think on a simple level things in the real world (RW) could grant things like extra morale bonuses/penalties and the like to rolls in the dream world (DW). On a deeper level the RW events could even change how effective certain spells are in the DW or nullify your ability to cast them at all. Or it could affect the different things that you find/interact with. Like if you are playing a child in the RW and are told a story about a great beast that eats baseballs and children alike (think Sandlot) then in the DW you may encounter a Tarrasque or the largest dog ever or some other beast.

I think this is an amazing idea and I would definitely lurk. If I wasn't overbooked I would be first in line to try and get in on it. From the sounds of it if you want to run this. You may want to go with a solo at first and work out kinks. I think with this as a solo game the development would be both fun and educational. The in depth necessary almost makes this a solo game IMHO. Then eventually you could add another person and another, etc.

I like the idea of 2 friends who meet in this DW who do not know each other in the RW and only meet up occasionally. Or the 2 actually know each other in RW but look completely different in DW (psychic self-image I belief was the matrix term). They could be best friends or fierce rivals in RW. Hell one could be the bully of the other. Only to forge a deep bond through the DW. Lots of plot ideas just sprung to mind.

[Black Plauge]

If I could figure it out, I'd definately love to run something like this at some point. I myself, however, am currently booked solid, especially with the Gladiator Tournament and thus won't be starting a campaign like this at least until that is done.

Still, if I can work out some of the prospective problems/bugs before then, then I'll be all set to get something up and running fairly quickly when time does free up.

[akiko]

So am I completely off in my thoughts or anywhere close to what you were thinking?

[zachol]

I play Call of Cthulhu.

One of the sourcebooks is the Dreamlands book.


It is completely a CoC (and Lovecraft) thing, and the rules are mostly specific to the Chaosium book, but I felt like mentioning it because, well, I love love love the dream cycle series of Lovecraft's books and have taken great joy in playing in that setting.


However, the CoC interpretation paints the waking world and the dreamlands as totally (well, mostly - you can get from one to the other, and meet your sleeping form or physically enter the dreamlands) separated.
The only thing that goes from one to the other is that as you gain more scientific or acadmic knowledge, you slowly lose the ability to enter the dreamlands.

As a note, the dreamlands is not something that anyone enters when they sleep.
It's like... Cleveland, and sleep is the US. You only go there if you're lucky (well, unlucky) or know where you want to go.

It's sort of strange.
If you like Lovecraft's works (you should), I'd read the Randolph Carter series (wiki link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Cycle) to the "Dream Cycle") and maybe find the sourcebook (amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/Lovecrafts-Dreamlands-Cthulhu-Roleplaying-Game/dp/1568821573/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/104-4379799-7815134)) for ideas, but know that it won't be easily applicable to a "normal" D&D game, beyond just the concepts.

[Black Plauge]

I think on a simple level things in the real world (RW) could grant things like extra morale bonuses/penalties and the like to rolls in the dream world (DW). On a deeper level the RW events could even change how effective certain spells are in the DW or nullify your ability to cast them at all. Or it could affect the different things that you find/interact with. Like if you are playing a child in the RW and are told a story about a great beast that eats baseballs and children alike (think Sandlot) then in the DW you may encounter a Tarrasque or the largest dog ever or some other beast.
I doubt I'll be allowing people to play children, but yeah encounters in the Waking World could certianly influence what you do/encounter in the Dream World. Morale bonuses/penalties and stuff probably won't transfer from the Waking World to the Dream World, however. As a lucid dreamer, a dream lord's dream persona is far more powerful than their waking persona. I might have things go the other way, however.

I think this is an amazing idea and I would definitely lurk. If I wasn't overbooked I would be first in line to try and get in on it. From the sounds of it if you want to run this. You may want to go with a solo at first and work out kinks. I think with this as a solo game the development would be both fun and educational. The in depth necessary almost makes this a solo game IMHO. Then eventually you could add another person and another, etc.

I like the idea of 2 friends who meet in this DW who do not know each other in the RW and only meet up occasionally. Or the 2 actually know each other in RW but look completely different in DW (psychic self-image I belief was the matrix term). They could be best friends or fierce rivals in RW. Hell one could be the bully of the other. Only to forge a deep bond through the DW. Lots of plot ideas just sprung to mind.
Considering that this is kind of where Cathedral of Thorns is going, that's certianly a possibility, but I'm not sure what I'd do with it.

[Black Plauge]

Hmmm....

Here's a proposal on how to handle lucid dreaming:

A lucid dreamer has the potential to posesses near infinite control over the Dreamscape, molding it and altering it to suit their will. However, this ability is limited by their own belief in their own power.

Altering the Dreamscape is treated as casting a spell, except that the lucid dreamer has no need to prepare spells, nor a limited list of spells known, nor a limit on how many spells they may cast during the course of a night. Instead, every time they try to cast a spell, you must make a Will save. Bigger alterations (higher level spells) have a higher DC. Success means that you alter the Dreamscape as you wished (cast the spell), failure means that you don't. Each time you make a particular change (cast a particular spell) the DC on the Will save goes down.