Physical Gender

[nightinverse]

Disclaimer: May I note before hand that this thread is not intended to be a discussion of sexuality or the emergent properties of gender, and any significant deviation into such topics is not to occur in this thread. I feel fully justified in expecting maturity from all participants, and I hope that you can respect this wish.

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In roleplaying, regardless of system or theme, I have consistently encountered individuals playing genders not like their own, much as they play those of different species, political stance, alignment or allegiance... etcetera ad infinitum.

However, gender as interpreted in roleplaying has a much more significant impact, as observed in numerous campaigns here, than these other - more mechanical - aspects of the character. Whether this is a result of societal conditioning, or this is the intention inherent in playing a different gender is open to discussion.

Now, in some older systems (AD&D is a prime example, if I recall), gender had significant effects upon gameplay, generally in the category of arbitary stat limitations, to whit, Strength. To this day, some areas in systems such as D&D 3.5 develop slight gender based differences - I could reference the Drow, in example - however these are societal and not inherent in nature. The unicorn can only be ridden by a maiden, fine - that is mythological in basis.

The point I am attempting to state is thus; in so far as the core rules of most systems, gender has none or few mechanical effects upon gameplay.

Why then, thus, do many cases of players running characters of another gender occur? As easily observed, they very seldom portray the character in a positive and different manner than they would one of their own gender. More often than not, it seems to serve as an outlet for fantasies of a less logical nature - just investigate the incredible number of media-derivative freeform and system games. I could point to BESM in general to explore this assertion. What is required to roleplay an individual of an opposite gender effectively? Is the ability to play those of a different gender effectively without falling into stereotype or a functionally genderless state one required for skilled roleplaying beyond a certain point?

Have at thee. Ask your own queries. I merely wanted to pose the issue.

[Mercutio]

I never have played a female character. I don't like reading stories with female main characters unless there are equivalent male characters. Call me a chauvinist or whatever, but I can't get into that mindset, and don't really want to either. In fact, I rarely play anything other than a human male in RP games. I like to project myself into the games.

[akiko]

I play women. Not as often as I used to but I do on occasion. I am currently only running 1 evil female. Who has a vastly different personality than any of my men, evil or not. I like changes. I mean, I am playing a role here, may as well be truly divergent from the others I am playing.

[Benicus]

I generally play men, it's just easier for me to do. I'm not a woman, nor will I ever be one so it's easier for me to do. Elves and Dwarves and stuff have stuff on the culture so it's easier to roleplay, but where's the stuff on female culture?! I ask you! ;) Jk.

[akiko]

My female is based on my little sister. Little sisters are evil I tell you.

[Benicus]

Skid can testify to that :).

[LynMars]

In this sort of conversation, I think it's important to define the terms more clearly for better understanding, not so much as a divergence but as an explanation, otherwise the conversation is muddled by participants having different understandings of what is meant.

In the Women's Studies course I'm taking this semester, we spend a lot of time on gender as a social construct, as opposed to physical sex. Boys have certain anatomical differences from women, yes, but a lot of gender behavior is engrained due to society. We examined this by taking a look at how shops were set up for display and advertisement, and then going to look at children's clothes and toys, and how many things were gendered when they didn't need to be, as it really shouldn't (and in many cases doesn't) matter until puberty, when the actual physical and hormonal changes take effect--and even then, they often don't make as much of a difference as some would believe. Most of it is societal teaching subconsciously engrained from birth.

Soapboxing aside...This class is infecting my brain, I swear...

A lot of people I speak to who play the opposite sex as themselves in RPGs do it due to it either "feeling right" for the character concept, much like nationality or hair color, or "just to see if they can pull it off believably" or "for something different." In most cases, it's not a mechanical decision, but a social one, and how it affects character interaction.

One reason may be backstory and character development issues that come with playing gender. While there may not be system reasons to play a woman as opposed to a man, there are still, in the fantasy society the same as in our own real society, differences in how men and women are treated and relate to each other that may have impact on one's concept.

The Drow in D&D are a good example of taking a different look at the common gender roles, and how they affect that made-up society. Another example would be the Vodacce nation from 7th Sea, which has a very complex social structure surrounding their womens' magic, with a very old Italy flavor thrown in, and concepts of machismo similar to that of Latino cultures. In both made-up societies, there are definitive gender roles based wholly upon one's physical sex, that you can't experience playing the other.

Some players like to explore those differences, and how it affects game play on a social level, not a mechanical one. Some do it for in game romance opportunities, some to test the "other side of the fence," or their own roleplaying abilities. In most cases I've seen though, it's not mechanics (beyond cases like the Fate Witches anyway), players choose to play the opposite gender for social reasons.

[nightinverse]

Of course, I might have intended for the discussion to oscillate between the directly physical aspects and the social connotations imposed by the societal construct. The very lack of definition generates interplay which is significant in itself from my analytical position as a sociological observer and controlled participant.

So, by asserting that commonly the opposite gender among mature players is selected for social reasons, what does that say about the societies in the game worlds? Do we assume a number of artifical gender expectations as appear in reality within our fantasy worlds?

[akiko]

Of course. By extension when we think of male and female roles in the game world we place on them the very same that would be done in our own. That was too wordy for its own damn good.


I find that gamers play/interact with females in the game as we would those in our own societies.

[hedgeknight]

I had only played male characters until I attended my first Gen Con - in 1991, I think it was. And when I suddenly found myself playing a female character, I was uncomfortable with getting into the role. I didn't do too well, as I recall, and that just bugged the shit out of me.
Then, I attended Winter Fantasy the following January and I'll be damned if every character I was given wasn't a female character! I couldn't believe it! But...I did much better in roleplaying a female character - had a blast in fact, getting in touch with my feminine side.
(clears throat) Er......(clears throat again).....not that there's anything.....wrong with that.
Er.....how about 'dem Colts! Yeah, football!!!!

Where was I?
What made the difference in a few months of gaming was that I had begun to read books with strong female characters and I had begun to write some fantasy stories with my friends (which would develop eventually into an email game!). I also began to read stories written by women, whereas in the past I had only read stories written by men. Anne McCaffrey's Pern, Jean M. Auel's Earth's Children series, Elizabeth Moon's Paksenarrion series - these books came from a woman's perspective and offered both male and females in leading roles. And this really helped me get into roles in gaming.

Since then, I have never hesitated to play female characters. In fact, if given the choice, I generally choose a female character over a male because it gives me more of a challenge. I know how men think, talk, act, etc - because I've had 43 years of experience living the role!
And thanks to my love of literature and my love of women, plus, my constant writing over the past 12 years, I have some insight to how women feel and act too.

So, my advice for those considering playing outside your gender is to read and study how the opposite sex thinks, feels, and acts. Read stories with strong characters - regardless of their gender, and practice writing a person of the opposite sex in a fantasy scenario. Of course, there is much to learn from movies and TV as well.

Sorry for rambling - great topic!
-g-

[LynMars]

So, by asserting that commonly the opposite gender among mature players is selected for social reasons, what does that say about the societies in the game worlds? Do we assume a number of artifical gender expectations as appear in reality within our fantasy worlds?
I think so, too; I think because it is so ingrained, we tend to project it into the game worlds created. Even the aforementioned Drow tend to hold to many expected gender patterns despite the matriarchal society they've been given, and a lot of it seems to be just basic Western thought of how males and females ought to act due to how society's assigned gender roles. We tend to talk about how women act and think, as opposed to how men act and think, and forget much of that is due to how we're raised.

I do agree with Mercutio except in the opposite way, in that I tend to read more books featuring female protagonists, and mostly written by women (my enjoyment of Roger Zelazny and his male protagonists is one of those exceptions that proves the rule for me), since I identify with them more--both in terms of physical sex issues, and gender role expectations. I tend to only play women for much the same reason--I know how to react and what to expect, and don't think I have a good enough insight into the "male psyche" to play them as effectively, as my societal experience is from the female gender role, hence relegating male characters to secondary characters in stories, and NPC and villain status in RPs for me.

[Linklegacy77]

I personally like to mix it up a bit. Often times, I'll play a female character because the rest of the group are male characters and I'd like to mix it up a bit. Most of the time though, I play male characters.

[The Hive Custodian]

I must admit--I'm a bit of a junkie for gender-and-roleplaying threads, essays and the like, despite the fact that usually I don't see anything I haven't seen before. Ironically, this is the first time I've ever posted in one.

Anyhow, the majority opinion (or at least the opinion that I consider the majority opinion; it does happen to be the one I agree with) is that female and male are not that inherently different, and that a character's upbriniging and circumstances, of which gender is but one aspect, should be the root of their character traits. Of course, there are always some dissenters who insist that there are significant inherent differences.

To connect this to real life, I happen to be male. I've found females to be reasonable in the way they think to my mind (at least as much as males, anyhow). I've never met anybody who thinks (read: games) quite like I do, from either gender. Admittedly, my experience with females is not the most extensive around, and your mileage may vary, and all that.

I also find it difficult to judge someone's gender just from their writing (including the people on this thread), or even assign any gender to it regardless of whether I am correct.

Regarding my own roleplaying:

Among my now-defunct-due-to-moving-to-college IRL group, I was the first to play a female character. (Our group was all male at that time, and we were 12-13 years old at the time.) I can't say I did it very well... then again, I can't say I or anybody else in our group was very good at roleplaying in general at that time. Most of the characters from that time I cannot remember, and the rest I wish I could forget. Such is the price of progess, I suppose. On the positive side, though, playing female characters became accepted in our group at an early time. Throughout the remainder of middle school and high school, I probably played about an even mix of female and male characters, again rather poorly by my present standards. Post-high school graduation, my gaming has moved up here to ORP, and the trend roughly continues, though my current tally of about four characters (three if you discount a one-shot that only allowed male characters due to historical reasons) is hardly much of a sample. In all cases here, it seems that my best character is always my latest one, yet my latest is never good enough for me...

[Anori]

I'm completely half n' half. I play females half the time, males the other half. The next character I make will be female, because my most recent (Ren Forluk, from Skidrow's game) is male.

[LuneMoonshadow]

I actually prefer to play females in my games, simply because it is both a change of pace from my everyday life, it's more challenging, and there is definately something "exotic" about the entire experience. I roleplay as a creative outlet, to allow myself the freedom to live lives that I could never experience in the everyday world. Blasting people with fireballs and shapeshifting into a werefox (my newest character, woo hoo) is amazing. While these are extreme examples, as a whole I think roleplaying is simply about doing something different. I, being male, enjoy playing females because it is different.

And while this thread does delve into the topic of sexuality and gender roles, I have several opinions: I do not think males and females should differ in-game in any significant way, and I do think (like someone suggested earlier) that we tend to apply our unrealistic expectations that we learned in our modern society onto our characters. There is a lot of evidence out there suggesting that as a whole, males and females are in essence the same. Yes, there are differences such as females, on average, being better at interpersonal empathy and males being better at spatial perception. But even with these differences they are minor, and most differences between the genders arise through societal learning and inherent conditioning done during the upbringing process.

I find the whole topic to be very interesting, and there have been a score of psychological/sociological studies done on this very subject that could make for some nice reference.

[omni-roach]

I usually play males, no real preference as to why; except for maybe, I am a male, but I've recently started playing a female, just to mix things up a bit.

[[WanderingMagelok]]

I usually play whatever concept hits my mind first. My typical character construction usually starts with me doing a sketch that I like, then making a story from there (mechanical stuff is usually a distant, and tacked on part of this process). I am male by the way.

Thus, I have played a variety of characters, both male and femal over my decently long (7 years, I am 19, started when I was 12) roleplaying career.

One of the only reason that I have ditched a female character over a male one is due to which group I play in. I have been in a few groups that make it...difficult to tplay a female character (chauvenistic remarks, and oog remarks about my sexuality). The other reason is that my IRL GURPS group occasionally (depending on the campaign) has an overabundance of female characters, and I feel the need to balance the party out.

One of my main reasons to play a female character is that I am a hopeless romantic. I need some form of love story in most campaigns I am in, and am perfectly willing to play the female half of the relationship (gods, that sounded bad).

The other main reason is that women can have a certain style about them that most male characters can't have. Due to gender stereotyping, men can't really be the helpless, needy, seductive character of the group, and try as I can to avoid it, I am a product of my society.

Plus, I like to draw women. And I like to play them. So, I occasionally pull out the feminie character and let it rip.

[Darius]

Just throw my $.02 in.

I typically play male characters. No real reason as to why, other than that is the majority of what I come up with a concept for. To mix things up a bit, I am currently playing female character in treehouse's Iron Heroes campaign. Why? It was the concept that came to mind and I had been recently rereading BLADE OF THE IMMORTAL, and the character of Rin appealed to me (i.e. driven to avenge her father's death, sword schools and the like). I could have made the character male and kept much of the same concept, but this character is allowing treehouse to expand on gender roles in his homebrew world, roles that correspond strongly to medieval/early renaissance Europe. To say tha Evangelyne is an anonamoly is an understatement, but it is a distinction that differs her from your typical swordperson.

Should also add in that I am a fan of Errant Story (http://errantstory.com) and Underpower (http://underpower.non-essential.com), which probably explains a lot behind where the concept of this particular character came from.

[treehouse]

Evangelyne is like Susan B. Anthony. Except with swords.

I usually play male characters, though I've had a few short-lived deviations into the female role. I'm not sure precisely why; it's not that I don't like to play outside type (most of my characters are way outside my personality-type anyway). Maybe it's just that gender isn't a hot topic for me, so I don't consider it when deciding what sort of character I want to play.

[Benicus]

That's an awsome statement treehouse, yet so true(about Evangelyne).

[zachol]

Hmm.

Well, theoretically, I like to play male and female characters evenly, but my female ones tend to end up being in the games I like more.

Loosely, Zanas (from realms of shadow) and Jean (RHoD) are at about the two extremes of why I'd play females.


Zanas was female because she needed to be for me to play her the way I wanted to.
The best way I can explain it is by bringing up yin and yang.
Zanas had an extrememly yin nature. About everything you classically associate with "yin" was shown in her personality.
Although I could've played a "yinnish" male, it is sort of hard for me to do this effectively.
Besides, I'm a guy, and my personality is strongly yin anyway. I don't like playing myself.
Also, Zanas was played mostly androgynously, and that was compounded by the fact that she lived under several layers of pure shadow, and was constantly blurred (no distinctive features to speak of).
So, Zanas is effectively sexless.
Then again, much of her (never actually published) backstory only makes sense when she's known to be a woman.

As a pop culture reference... Zanas is very similar to Raven, of the Teen Titans.


Jean is female because I wanted to play a female warmage that wasn't just a tomboy.
Most female warmages are like female captains... very masculine, if only in attitude.
Assertive, strong, and bullish. Personally, I don't like these characteristics in anyone... I'm not saying that women shouldn't be assertive, but that it's annoying when anyone is powerfully assertive.
Jean is my impression of a valley girl.


A lot of people I speak to who play the opposite sex as themselves in RPGs do it due to it either "feeling right" for the character concept, much like nationality or hair color, or "just to see if they can pull it off believably" or "for something different." In most cases, it's not a mechanical decision, but a social one, and how it affects character interaction.
Precisely.

Also, each one of my characters is based on a different aspect of my own personality, changed a bit and expanded (though never my entire personality in one character).
I consider many aspects of myself, again, to be in sync with the idea of the yin, so many of my characters are female to reflect that.

I've had some passive male, and some assertive female characters, but even then I play them as I see that gender (in an inherently masculine or feminine way, even if it's not obvious).