[D&D] Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, and Crossbows...

[Benicus]

Hey I am creating about THE coolest character right now and I was wondering: Does rapid shot work with Repeating Crossbows? Does Rapid Reload work with Repeating Crossbows? If so how?

My character so far is:
Selidric Auron
Fighter-2/Rogue-1/Sorc-1
Human
LG
St.Cuthbert (god)
Medium Size
Age 25
Male
5'6"
135
Blue Eyes
Black Hair
White skin
---
Abilities
---
Str: 13
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis:11
Cha: 13
Hp: 25
AC: 17
Initiative: +3
---
Saves:
Fort: +4
Ref: +6
Will= +2
---
BAB=+2
---
Weapons:
2 Masterwork Heavy Repeating Crossbows: Attk Bonus +4; Dmg 1d10; Crit 19-20X2; Range 120ft.; Type Pierce
Heavy Mace; Attack Bonus +3; Damage 1d8; 19-20X2 Crit; Type Bldg
---
Armor:
Masterwork Chain Shirt;+4 AC; Max Dex +4; Check Penalty +1; Spell Failure 20%; Speed 30ft; Weight 25lbs.
---
Feats:
Exotic Weapon Profecientcy (Repeating Cross-bow)
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Focus (Repeating Crossbow)
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Precise Shot
---
Flaws:
Frail
---
Special Abilities:
Sneak Attack +1d6
Trap Finding
Summon Familiar-Cat
---

Basically if I get a full attack and hit all I can do 4d10 damage at 4th level! And with sneak attack that's another +1d6 if I can get it. I will reload with my spell Unseen Servant, he'll do the reloading so I can continue to pulvirize the people with the crossbows.

This guy is yummy :)

BRR Edit: Everytime you don't read the rules, I get one step closer to dispatching the ORP death squads.

[elmer_jok]

LMAO at the ORP death squad threat... no, seriously you should read the rules thoroughly before posing a question like that.

[elmer_jok]

I'll let you read the rules and find the answer yourself though as it is painfully obvious.

[Benicus]

I read the rules and I can't see what is wrong...maybe I'm just dumb but it says that you can get help refining a character concept...and I need help with a character concept.

I didn't post a title maybe that's why...

[Linklegacy77]

Uh, Benicus, a repeating crossbow is a type of light or heavy crossbow. It's just a normal crossbow that holds 5 bolts instead of 1 at a time, and thus obviously benefits from Rapid Reload.

Here's Agi's opinion of how to use rapid shot with x-bows.
http://www.3rdedition.org/agimimnon/viewer.asp?ID=34


(And do read the rules before asking questions about them. The rapid reload should have been obvious. And how are you getting 4d10 damage a round with a full attack? I see 1d10 with one attack, 2d10 if you can get two attacks with rapid shot.)

[Mercutio]

Just note the Agi article references "partial actions" and is written prior to 3.5.

That said, the mechanics stay the same. Rapid Reload lets you reload as a free action. If you also have rapid shot, you could fire a regular light crossbow 2 times in one round, or a regular heavy crossbow once, but be able to reload it.

The repeating heavy crossbow circumvents the need for Rapid Reload, and is in fact better than Rapid Reload.

At level 4, your BAB is 2 (which sucks). If you just did rapid shot with one repeating crossbow, you could get two attacks with +3(dex) total to hit. Or you could fire once for +5 to hit.

Next - the repeating heavy crossbow says you can fire with one in each hand, but you can't reload, AND you take -4 to an attack for firing one handed. You have to have two hands in order to use the reload lever. So let's move forward. You can't use the Rapid Shot because you can't reload, which means you still get two attacks. You take -2 for TWF for your primary hand and -4 for your offhand. Then you take an additional -4 for firing one-handed.

You won't hit anything.

BAB +2
DEX +3
Total = 5

TWF -2/-4
Firing one handed -4/-4
Total = -6/-8

5-6 = -1
5-8 = -3

So you get two attacks with crappy modifiers: -1/-3.

[Benicus]

But....wait:

BAB +2
Dex +3
Weapon Focus+1
Masterwork weapons +1
Point blank range: +1 (if within 30ft.)
Total: +8/+7 (for light)
TWF: -2/-2 (light weapon instead, changed it to a MW Light Repeating C-bow)
Firing one handed: -4/-4
Total: -6/-6

Four attacks (one norm, one from other weapon, two bonus [one for each weapon] from rapid shot) at +2/+1

Better? I know it's still crappy but the character concept is soooo cool about this I want it to work so badly...grrr

EDIT: The attacks would do 2d10+2d8 damage for the crossbows...that's a lot of damage for fourth level don't you think? Especially if Sneak Attack bonus is included (+1d6), and maybe even a crit (at 19-20X2)....could screw alot of BBEG's over don't you think?

[Mercutio]

I missed the other feats.

So:
BAB = +2
Dex = +3
WF = +1
Masterwork = +1
PBS = +1
Total = +8

TWF = -2/-2 for light x-bow
Firing one-handed = -4/-2 for heavy x-bow and light x-bow
Total = -6/-4

Two attacks at +2/+4. For 1d10 and 1d8.

You can't get the rapid shot attacks if you fire one-handed. You have to have a free hand to reload even the repeating crossbows.

You can fire a repeating crossbow with one hand or fire a repeating crossbow in each hand in the same manner as you would a normal crossbow of the same size. However, you must fire the weapon with two hands in order to use the reloading lever, and you must use two hands to load a new case of bolts.
It would be better just to have Rapid Shot and one x-bow.
BAB = +2
Dex = +3
WF = +1
Masterwork = +1
PBS = +1
Total = +8

Rapid shot = -2/-2

Two attacks at +6/+6. And you could still use the heavy repeating crossbow to get the bigger damage die.

[Xaden]

I thought one of the points here was the Unseen Servant spell though, which could do the reloading lever of the crossbows for the character. With the unseen servant you wouldn't need both hands to use the reloading lever of the repeating crossbows therefore allowing you to shot each crossbow multiple times, I just think there's a problem with using Rapid Shot with two weapons, but I believe you should be able to do it with one of them therefore allowing 3 attacks, two with one crossbow and one with the other (eating the penalties for both two-weapon fighting and rapid shot of course). So yes, big panlaties, but still three shots (as long as Unseen servant is going).

[Benicus]

Yeah that was the point; the Unseen Servant. That's why I took the level of Sorcerror otherwise I would've just pounded out another fighter level and had a higher attack bonus. This character is meant to cause EXTREME damage to the appropriate CR creatures that we'll be attacking, I'm making him basically a tank rival to a palladin/barbarian that I had but had to give up (friend came home to play). I know I'm probablly not ever going to hit anything but when I do it'll be freaking awsome (2d10+1d8, as I just saw that with two weapon fighting I only get one attack till I get Improved TWF) that is asumming I hit though I know that, but still, that's what spells like True Strike are for ;).

[AbusePuppy]

It's all about being a thri-kreen (or other four-armed creature).

Also, true strike is pretty bad for anything but sniping, which is what crossbows really excel at. If you <3 ranged character do yourself a favor and pick up "Three Arrows for the King," a very excellent resource on the subject. Several base classes, prestige classes, a buttload of feats and unique weapons/ammo.
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[Benicus]

<3? Okay, but yeah I keep hearing about Thri-Kreen, what are they other than 4 armed monstrousities of nature? And where are they from?

BTW Where could I locate Three Arrows for the King and is it D&D or d20 stuff?

[AbusePuppy]

<3 is the ASCII "love" emoticon. You kids these days, you need to learn your roots!

www.dreadgazebo.com (http://www.dreadgazebo.com) is the website for the publisher. It's a D&D supplement.


Edit: Thri-kreen are four-armed insects originally from the Darksun campaign setting in 2Ed; you can find them in Monster Manual II, Savage Species and Expanded Psionics Handbook in 3.5.
EditEdit: WTF? No eating my text! Bad message board! No biscut!

BRR Edit: Don't talk about methods of aquiring sourcebooks without paying or you'll be banned.
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[Benicus]

Lol, bad board indeed...

[Mercutio]

Okay, with the Unseen Servant cast, he can to the reload, but as Xaden mentioned, as a DM I'd only allow one extra attack with one weapon - the one in your primary hand. Rapid shot says "You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. The attack is at your highest base attack bonus, but each attack you make in that round (the extra one and the normal ones) takes a -2 penalty." Now add in the Rapid Shot penalty to all attacks in the round.

So:
BAB = +2
Dex = +3
WF = +1
Masterwork = +1
PBS = +1
Total = +8

Rapid Shot = -2/-2/-2
TWF = -2/-2/-2
Firing one-handed = -4/-4/-2 for (-4 for heavy x-bow and -2 for light x-bow)
Total = -8/-8/-6
Three attacks at +0/+0/+2. For 2d10 and 1d8.

[Xaden]

Hey! +0/+0/+2, that's not to bad for 4th level. Yeah, it's not too great either, but I'd say all in all, pretty cool and creative, for what it's worth I give it all a thumbs up.

[Doomsmile]

My brother did something similar once... except he was using hand crossbows, so the damage wasn't nearly as good, but it was appropriate for his character- essentially a cowboy.

[nightinverse]

I don't think your Unseen Servant can get between you and the crossbow to help with such required work... but that's just my opinion.

[Benicus]

Well my friend voiced that Rapid Reload only gave one shot too (IMO I think its for every ranged weapon). But yeah IMO +0/+0/+2 is pretty good for fourth level :) at 2d10 1d8 damage, plus might even get sneak attack (+1d6) it could be a whoping 42 damage at most. That'd be tight :)

[Mercutio]

Well, I totally agree with your friend, Benicus. The feat is specific in its wording.

+0/+0/+2 is good for fourth level? You guys must be playing in some underpowered campaigns then. You wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn in any games I run unless you rolled ridiculously high consistently.

[Benicus]

We're playing Shackled City, and I think it's good (not the bonuses they suck) but I get FOUR attacks, that's real good I think especially for fourth level. Plus the damage is high for fourth level too IMO.


EDIT: THREE attacks! lol.

[Doomsmile]

If you max out hide and move silently, you could smite an unaware mage (or maybe a lightly armored rogue) something aweful.

[Benicus]

...you people are mean...

*wags fist*

[Doomsmile]

What did I say...?

[nightinverse]

He's just baiting you, what with the destruction of this very interesting idea.

[Benicus]

*runs off and crys to mommy*

[nightinverse]

Oh, I need to edit in jimmboe's seal on my signature sometime soon...