OOC

[Black Plauge]

And we're officially moved. After some rolling, the dice have decided that one day without incident is enough.

Oh, and I'm still waiting on a response from Conlee about whether or not he wants me to advertise for an additional player. Both Vaniver and MFG have said yes at this point, so I'm inclined to go with the majority, but I'd like to hear from Conlee on the matter first.

If I do advertise for a new player, they will be asked to write up a race description, just as you all were. If we have multiple applicants, said race descriptions will be used to choose between them. I'd also like all of you to help in that selection process.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Sounds good.
Are we having another random encounter? You must roll very high or low so we get that many.......

Also, does Manweh'mato know how far behind they are behind the Caravan now?a full day, more??

NEVER MIND, just read the IC thread.

[Black Plauge]

Well, my random encounter tables are more populated than usual since they include helpful, neutral, and hostile encounters.

Plus, you're on a fairly well traveled road, you have to expect a fair bit of encounters at the very least with other travellers headed in the oppisite direction.

I'm not saying what kind of encounter this might be though. You'll have to find that out by getting closer. :evil:

Oh, and to clarify, the things in the grass are not right next to the road. There a bit of a ways off of it and moving towards it. If the road in front is considered 12 o'clock, the disturbance that Manweh'mato spotted is about halfway between 1 & 2.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Is quickening the pace to pass them before they reach the road an option?

[Black Plauge]

If the current paces were to continue unchanged, you'd expect that to happen, since you're traveling signifigantly faster than they are and you've about the same distance to go as they do to reach where they'll cross the road.

Of course, if you slow down or they speed up that could change signifigantly.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Okay, I guess we will wait for a few days for Conlee's input. But for now, I say we keep going normally.

[Black Plauge]

I'll give Conlee until Friday.

[Black Plauge]

Does any one see anything in the House rules sub-forum that the remember seeing before and would like to see again? I think I've got most of it, but I could be wrong.

[My Fellow Gamers]

What about ancient history, the time of the dragons and the time of the giants? Is it posted or did I imagine all that?

[Black Plauge]

Ah yes. I am missing all that. I have to rewrite it since EzBoard lost the online copy and my hard drive crash destroyed mine, but I'll repost that too.

[Conlee]

So sorry about the huge delay, guys. I got pretty swamped with midterms, and checking the status of the game was not really a top priority. As for an extra player, that sounds totally fine to me.
Now that I think about it, you may want to look for two more players. I've had a fun time in this game, but honestly I'm not enjoying it too much any more. I feel like it's not fair to you all to have a player whose commitment is as spotty as mine, and honestly the only reason I post any more is out of some feeling of obligation to you all, which doesn't seem like a good reason to keep it up. I'll be glad to stay on for long enough to write Skasa out of the story (or if somebody wants to pick him up instead of making a new PC that's fine), but I don't see myself going through any big changes about my level of interest. I figure I owe it to you not to just quit posting.

(I should make it clear that it's not anybody's fault I'm quitting. BP, you've been a great DM, and I couldn't have asked for more creative and fun co-players, but PbP D&D (heck, D&D in general) just isn't really holding my interest any more.)

[My Fellow Gamers]

I am really sorry to hear that Conlee, but thank you for your complete honesty and respect for us. It is appreciated. I would try to convinve you to stay but it looks like your mind is already made up.

Just want to say it was and still is a fun game for me so I still want to keep it going. So we will urgently need some new blood for BP's grinder!!

Also, Skasa is pretty cool. What are the options for him?? So many questions......

[Jop]

I'll take his PC...;)

[Black Plauge]

Okay, I got distracted yesterday and didn't get to update like I promised, but I'm in the process of correcting that.

Its too bad that you feel that way, Conlee, but if that's the way it is...

I'll start advertising for new/replacement players. I don't know if there is going to be any intrest in taking over Skasa, but if there is, I willing to let it happen. If not, then I'll still be adding a player or two of new characters.

One thing I'd like some input on from you guys is the charcater creation guidelines. If you've had a chance to look at the races thread, you'll note that I have worked out an additional house rule (or rather, set of them) that kind of works us around the proplem we had when you guys made characters (i.e., some races having high ECL makes starting them out in a low level campaign difficult or impossible). I'd like for new characters to be made using the house rule so that I can test it out for balanace, but I'm also worried about how that would effect you guys, since your characters were made before that house rule was created. What are you're thoughts on the matter?

[My Fellow Gamers]

I thought that the deepling race was strong for a ECL 0 race because it had a lot of synergy with the druid and ranger class. I looked at the other races and they look fine with the ECL. Only the one with darkness at will is a bit much..but that may be only me.

I don't think the current characters would be much affected by the new character creation rules. As long as Vaniver does not get the short end of a stick because he choose a ECL race, I am quite fine with it.

On a complete different note, Jop that posted this morning is my friend that wanted to join the game. BP, are you serious in letting someone taking over Skasa because I know Jop likes druid for a fact. He played one in my game and played it very well.

[Black Plauge]

Darkness at will was for the Derro. They are an ECL 5 race for PCs (3 HD +2 LA), and one of the few that are that high (or that are going to be that high). IIRC their stats are unchanged from the MM, except for the fact that I've eliminated the madness entry, since PCs aren't allowed to play an insane Derro (most of the members of this race are crazy, which has additional mechanics).

As for Jop taking over Skasa. If he wants to, I've no problem with it. For starters, he needs to pick a race and do a racial write up.

[Jop]

A'right! Skasa it is then. If Conlee doesn't mind, I'll take him over.
Thanks for the opportunity. I have a fair bit of time at my work to look at "other" stuff, and so should be able to easily participate.
I've already read most of what's here, and it all looks quite interesting!
BP, I guess it's up to you now to direct me as to what I have to do...

[Black Plauge]

Jop, you can start by choosing a race that still needs a write-up and write one. Everyone's written at least one, including myself and the players we've lost (Raga, and now Conlee).

Second, You'll need to copy and repost Skasa's character sheet so that you can edit it. You'll want to preserve the same multi-post format, as it makes it easier to delineate the different sections of the sheet.

Third, go ahead and start posting for Skasa IC.

Actually, you don't really have to do all of them in order, but you do need to do them.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Just so everyone knows, I have not given up on my original idea for the grimlocks and therefore would like to "reserve" it. Still plenty of fish in the sea for Jop to choose but not Grimlocks.

As for the game, I am quite curious as to what we spotted is. I think I will investigate a bit if the others don't mind....I am a ranger after all....

[Jop]

Char.Sheet copied.
I'll choose a race soon. I'm thinking probably Grimlocks.
Hahaha...
BP, could I get some transcripts of past encounters and various actions to get an idea of what Skasa is about, and get a feel for how everyone interacts?

[Black Plauge]

Well, we lost alot of the early stuff due to the EzBoard fiasco last Memorial Day, but here's links to what we've got of the old posts:

What Came Before (http://www.3rdedition.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603)

New Land, New Start (http://www.3rdedition.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=345&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=d5799fea6659e6173bf7f4f0c4104882)

Second, Van, why does your post mention a wagon? The party doesn't have one and hasn't come across any.

Third, I've posted the start of the world history: From the Lips of Sages (http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5242). What do people think of the format, which is very different from what I had before, IIRC. Do people like it this way, or do they prefer a more factual listing.

[My Fellow Gamers]

THIS IS FROM MY MEMORY -- Might have some mistakes

Skasa and I started the game just outside of a human town. He were going there to scatter the ashes of our recently deceased father as his last will. Wambli was free to hunt but hunted a chicken in a cage in the caravan that belonged to Anselmo, which at the time was Soltlak's employer as a guard. The bird was captured by a town guard and put in a cage. Anselmo directed Soltlak to help the 2 halflings get the bird back because we payed a lot more then the damage it caused and also the bird got Anselmo off the hook with the town guards because he gave him away. Kept him from explaining some shady merchandise to the guards.

the current party ( Soltalk, Skasa, Manweh'mato) makes it way in town very impressed by all these new things, especially the halflings, to a small pub where the guard usually goes to drink his pay after work. We find him in a bad mood losing the bird and money to Hakan (at the time the 4th player) in a game of cards. The guard is onto Hakan's cheating (he was really cheating) and a small dispute erupts. Skasa runs to help Wambli and Hakan and they escape by burning a hole in the storage room of the pub. Manweh'mato calms the rest of the crowd down and they make a hasty retreat. The 4 meet up and talk. (first real party interaction) and we go the a halfling restaurant nearby. We barely have begun to eat that a "law officer" and his very rude assistant come to ask us many many questions. We are in a bit of trouble with the law. We have to go and negociate with the pub owner and pay a lot of money for damages. Soltlak almost loses it and really wants to tear the lying human a new one....temper temper my lizzy friend

With less gold, which is still a very strange concept for Skasa (money I mean) we make our way back to get a room at the halfling restaurant/inn we were before. We spend a night and the next day we use it to fullfill our father'sast wishes. With Soltlak's connections, we all get in a boat and that is where the WHAT CAME BEFORE link starts at.

Anybody want to add anything?

[Conlee]

I'm totally fine with Skasa getting taken over. Feel free to make him your own, Jop, but if you ever want my input on something don't hesitate to ask. I just want to re-iterate that I've had a really fun time with this game, and I'm sure I'll still be checking in once in a while to see how the group is doing. Jop, you seem like a good player and I think Skasa's in good hands now. Good luck all, and have fun with this.

[Jop]

Alright. I think I'm pretty much up to date on everything now.
Character sheet copied, all other threads read, and I've got my first post under my belt. I figured that by doing these first, I could start participating right away and not slow you guys down...
So I'm starting work on the race now. As I've never done this before, I hope to get some leniency as to the time I have to write it...
But no worries BP, it will be written. I'm not just a freeloader looking for an easy game!

[My Fellow Gamers]

I have a few questions.
distance between us and the first group is?
distance between us and the second group is?
distance to cover on the road before we get to where they will cross themselves if they keep same directions?
If they wanted to, could they easily cut us off from the road?
All these can be my PC's best guess or approximates.

Once again, Thanks Conlee, you have been a great sport about all of this. My hat is up for you!

[Black Plauge]

distance between party and the first group: 1375 ft
distance between party and the second group: 1625 ft
distance to cover on the road before party gets to where they will cross themselves if they keep same directions: 790 ft

If they wanted to, could they easily cut us off from the road?
Not at their current speed. Since you don't know what they are yet, you don't know how fast they might move if they were to speed up.

[My Fellow Gamers]

All right, we keep going then. I am doing nothing more then looking at them and will react if you post something. I would like to know what they are before we don't see them anymore however. Consider my Pc is riding at the same speed he has all day and does not change anything right now.

I will be out of town for a week starting tomorrow up to Halloween Day. I should have internet access but I am not sure. My posting might not be as fast as usual.

[Black Plauge]

Any other input from the rest of you?

[Jop]

We are now all riding right?
I stay near Meat and try to keep contact with him until further notice.

[Black Plauge]

Yes. Everyone is riding at the moment.

[Jop]

Everyone go ahead and comment...


Physical Description
Elves vary in size from 4'10" and 5'8" and typically weigh 100-135 lbs. However, according to their delicate bodies they seem much taller than they really are. Often male and female elves are hard to discern, at first glance. Both sexes usually have big, expressive eyes (in the most splendid colors). They wear their hair uncut and open, have graceful, fragile features and are of extraordinary beauty. Male elves also don't have any beard growth. Very typical for elves are their pointed ears, and high cheekbones. In comparison to humans, elves are stronger in spirit and in limb and have an exceptional constitution and endurance. When they grow older they seldom get weaker, instead they become wiser and even fairer. Elven senses, especially of hearing and sight, are much keener and intense than those of Men and are highly resistant to extremes of temperatures and also have several natural defenses against magical influences. The long life-spans of elves may be accounted to one of the main reasons that elves are very calm and patient in all their actions.



Society
Long ago, there was only one Elf City in the forest of Kyta. With its own king, the great Elf city was in the 10,000 – 30,000 population range. It is unknown what it is that caused the dismantlement of this city, what has become of it, or even where it was located. The elves have now separated into much smaller clans and tribes scattered throughout the forest. They still maintain a bond amongst them, but are no longer known as the great united force it once was. They are now known as just another race, rather than an empire.

Most Elf towns and cities are now made up of tree houses in old growths with platforms, ramps and rope bridges connecting the houses and shops. It is actually possible to pass underneath an Elf village without ever seeing it in the trees above your head. Elf cities in the forest often are more like fortresses and the few that enter without authorization returned alive. Elves rarely live more than 500 küçüksene as often they end up dying protecting nature or their homes or kin. While they respect life greatly as do all Elves, they are more willing to sacrifice themselves in a just cause without fear or regret. Most Elves gather in small bands of 100 to 200 members, where the best warrior is usually the leader. Few Elf tribes use any other kind of hierarchy. There is no social discrimination between male and female. A talented individual of either sex may hold any social or military position. The leader is usually titled Prince or Princess and tribe members are free to leave the tribe or form another tribe if they disagree strongly with their leader. There are some bands or tribes of Elves that are merely hunter gathers. They often have a hunting range rather than a permanent or semi- permanent camp. It is common for Elves to maintain base camps in empty caves or a few tree huts on their hunting grounds as well as some sort of defensible strong hold.

Elves are not particularly good in crafting, construction or any activity of this sort, as much of their time is spent developing combat weapons and styles. This is one of the reasons that they have gradually enslaved gnomes. Elves are really good with the bow and the sword. They usually wear leather armor, because they prefer fencing to sword bashing. Elves are also good riders, since their friendship with animals can make them get the collaboration of most creatures, even magical ones. Even if they are not the most numerous races, Elves as a race have one of the best chances of surviving. Its population grows very slowly, but given time they might recover the glory that the Elven people once had. Elves are prepared to fight evil especially in defenses of nature or their homes.

Culture
Elves hide deep in the forest and most prefer to not deal directly with other races as they have gotten tired of watching while other races destroy nature. To them, the fight is inevitable and there's no specific way to solve the problems of the world. It is in this way that the Elves began to develop a more offensive attitude than is usually known of them. Elf culture is simple and their actions are mainly for survival, theirs, and their environments. The young are trained early to fight and survive. Elves have assumed their role, as nature protectors like never before, and are willing to use force they may need to do so without regret. Over time, they have learned to live in perfect harmony with nature developing the ability to communicate with the plants and animals of their home. The Elves are great hunters and spies. They can move silently, and if they don't want to be seen, they usually won't.

Elves have somewhat lost the sense of style that every Elf once had. Even if they still look graceful, they don't have all the "fashion sense" they once had. They are still magic in nature, and every one knows a little bit of magic. The art and the music of the Elves have also suffered several wounds. The Elves still play beautiful songs, but perhaps not as beautiful as they once were. And if one pays careful attention to the lyric of those songs, one will notice the songs are often sad and melancholy and about war, and death and hope.

Relations


General
Elves are generally content to ignore others as long as they respect nature and do not intrude upon Elf territory. Hunters and trappers who hunt and trap to survive are tolerated on their borders, but those who hunt and trap for sport or profit killing can find themselves in serious trouble. The same goes for lumberjacks; those who come and take only what they need might be tolerated, but anyone trying to clear-cut can find themselves at war with the Elves. To this day, the only races Elves will still fight at first site are Orcs and Gnolls. Stories are still told of how these monsters had a habit of invading Elf lands and destroying nature in their paths, coming in by hords by way of the water.


Gnomes
As eternal neighbours with very different values, the Elves and Gnomes never really got along that well. As opposed to most other feuds between races, there have not been any major wars or battles that set forth this feud. Their relationship simply slowly degenerated through the centuries, with no one from either side ever having the resolve to fix the issues and mend the two races. One Elf town where the feud was getting more heated had defeated and captured most gnomes of that village and had forced them into crafting and building certain things that were strange and difficult for elves, but at the same time became very useful in every day life. This village seemed to become more and more prosperous than most with this new combination of Elf values and gnome craftsmanship. Word eventually got around the various towns and cities and more and more gnomes were getting captured by elves and used as slaves. Although owning a gnome slave is beneficial and seen as a sign of nobility, it is not a necessity to survive in the Elven towns and therefore not a widespread custom. It is the equivalent of owning a pet. Some do, and some don’t. However, it is suspected that a few remaining tribes still frown upon such things. Many gnomes are known to have escaped their masters, most with the help of the Halflings, and many more were captured again to replace them. It has simply become part of life in the forest.

Humans
Although Elves do not consider the Humans to be their successors, nor do they have anything against them, they keep an open link as humans have some times proven useful in the fight against evil. Knowing very well that humans have accepted and even housed runaway and/or fugitive Gnomes and Halflings, the elves still retain some scepticism towards most humans. Some tribes have in fact developed certain trading routes with humans, but these are very rare.

Halflings
Because of the fact that many Halflings (especially Stonewalls) have been known to help gnomes escape from various elf towns, there is a certain natural inner annoyance towards them. Elves don’t see Halflings as any kind of threat (they are just another type of gnomes to them) nor do they see them as allies. No major war or battles have ever really transpired between them, but rarely will you see Halflings and elves walking or fighting side by side… Elves tend to simply remain wary of any Halflings they meet, with the exception of Deeplings, for whom they have a little more respect.

Centaurs

Elves and Centaurs have always known of each others existence, some have crossed each others paths, but never has it been know that either race has actually come in direct contact with each other. It is said that they have always had an innate and somewhat grudging respect for each other, which is partly based on both races having similar views of the other races on Kyta. Also, Elves have always seen Centaurs as simply being part of nature. Their resemblance to, and care of wild horses, are obvious signs of the Centaurs respect for their environment. But at the same time, Elves have always slightly feared these large creatures. Their shear size and nomadic ways, as well as their short tempers, lack of patience and known long lasting feuds, have characterized them as wild and unpredictable to the eyes of the elves…


Alignment and religion
Elves do not tend to any particular alignment. However, no elves have ever been known to be evil. For the longest time, the elves worshiped Corellon Larethian, the Protector and Preserver of life. Corellon is a pratron of magical study, arts, dance, and poetry, as well as a powerful warrior god. But since the elves split in a multitude cities and towns, many tribes have slowly gotten away from Corellon and either found new gods to worship, or no god at all. Elven myth holds that is was from Corellon's blood, shed in battles with Gruumsh (the god of the Orcs), that the elves first arose. There was a point in time when many of the gods were still battling for possession of the various lands of this world. Battles that lasted for centuries as they were fought as much on each of the gods continents, as in the oceans that seperated them. In the end, there never was a clear winner and the gods, all of them exhausted, settled for what they had conquered thus far.

[Black Plauge]

First thing I noticed, orcs and gnolls are not native to Kyta. Singling them out for special animosity is probably unnecessary.

Second thing, how do elves get along with Centaurs? As the other race native to Kyta, encounters between elves and centaurs would be relatively common (as compared to centaur encounters with other races), especially since you describe elves as being fiarly naturalistic. Centaurs are nomadic, does this mean the elves view them as a part of nature or as a blight that exploits a location until it can no longer support them and then move on?

Third, you mention the Plant and Animal Colleges of Magic, since these aren't typical identifications for magic, could you be more specific about what you're driving at here. Are you think of elves as less wizardly and more druidic (or maybe even Shugen or Wu Jen)?

[Jop]

First thing I noticed, orcs and gnolls are not native to Kyta. Singling them out for special animosity is probably unnecessary.


I modified that a little to better explain what I meant. I was trying to create a bit of a link between different races, and different continents.


Second thing, how do elves get along with Centaurs


I've added the Centaurs in there. I hope what I've added is satisfactory.

Third, you mention the Plant and Animal Colleges of Magic, since these aren't typical identifications for magic, could you be more specific about what you're driving at here?

Can't be really that specific as this was not meant to be much of anything... Just something I saw that I thought would add flare to the elves culture... They don't specialize or shun any specific type of magic... So I just removed the comment altogether.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Pretty good write up. I like it. I guess I saw the revised version because BP's comments make no sense to me.

As far as the game goes, let's keep going. until we are much closer or can learn new information on the grass creatures.

[Black Plauge]

There seems to be some concensus to keep moving, though Vaniver hasn't posted yet, so I'll move things along to the next point later today or tomorrow, largely depending on when I find the time to get it done, as I've got to start a couple of gladiator matches today as well.

[My Fellow Gamers]

If Vaniver had posted, he would say Soltlak wants to taste whatever we kill in the grass anyways:fun: .

I dont believe we are in trouble anyways....gut feeling you know...

[Jop]

I'm with waiting until something happens... No more actions from me...

Also, I'm a little unsure as to where we are in the world right now... And where we came from by boat. Do we know the type of environment we are travelling in or is it all new to us?

[My Fellow Gamers]

actually, we don't really know where we are and where we are going. we are simply following a caravan because we heard it might be hiring people for a dangerous mission.

I know we are on a road with some rivers and tall grass on each side and that we took the boat from the elves\human\centaurs\halfling lands and landed in the gnoll lands if I am not mistaken. Since we are trying to catch up to a Manead, I am guessing we are going northbond but I really dont know.

BP, your new player needs clarifications.
p.s. have we lost Vaniver as well as Conlee, he hasn't posted in a while??

[Black Plauge]

The party landed in Kikötõ, a major trading port that lies within kobold territory, but fairly close to the border with gnoll territory, so the city has a very mixed population. The city lies at the mouth of a river which has a fairly wide delta area, its this river delta area that the party is currently travelling through. The party is currently headed south (remember that north is dead center of the maps show in the map thread), towards the izmuth that connects Mór-thir to Vasteland. Presumably the road will turn starside (up on the maps) when it reaches the izmuth since the manead is headed home and that's the direction he'd need to travel in to reach it.

The river delta that the party is currently in is primarily deciduous forest and marshland intermixed, with the high grass on either side of the road currently being indicative of marsh. There are also many rivers and creeks of various sizes that carve their way through the area as the river empties itself into the ocean.

That's about the extent of what the party knows. Most of the information comes from Soltlak, who's been in or near the area before (while working for Anselmo).

I'm not sure what's happened to Vaniver. However, he posted in the tournament discussion thread yesterday, and his last post here was just a few days ago (on the 23rd), so I don't think he's necessarily lost.

[Jop]

Thanks. That's kinda what I needed. So although on a fairly different continent where we've never been before, the environement and vegetation is fairly similar to what I know... As were the creatures we've encountered so far.

[Black Plauge]

Yes. Probably some local species variations in the flora and fauna, but there are no major genus variations. Think about it in terms of the difference between Europe and North America.

[Jop]

Right on. Just trying to play my druid as best I can with the info I got...
And to fill some time with information that can be usefull to us!

[My Fellow Gamers]

Happy now Jop?:fun: just kidding...

[My Fellow Gamers]

Hey Jop, just had an idea, what about moving Rafi's game to this site and getting new players?.....just a thought...tell me what you think.

[Jop]

Sure. Sounds good. Go ahead.

[Black Plauge]

Sorry the update took so long. I got tied up with getting a test done.

Well, you've gotten your wish for more information. What you do with it is up to you.

[My Fellow Gamers]

No problem BP, what does manwe'mato know about kobolds in general. I want this to be genuine so 10 words max to describe my reaction to this new info before I even share it with the others.

[Black Plauge]

Having traveled with a kobold trading caravan on the ship from Kýta, you can safely assume that Manweh'mato is relatively familiar with the trading side of kobold society.

I.e. Kobolds are known to be cunning negotiators, and are prefectly willing to rob you blind if they can. Most, however, won't resort to physical means to accomplish this, prefering instead to trick you into giving them what they want. You probably heard at least a few (boasting) tales of succussesful negotiations some of the kobolds in the caravan have had.

You don't, however, know anything that's in the racial entry about the monastic side of kobold life.

[My Fellow Gamers]

All right, I guess my PC will want to interact with them.

[My Fellow Gamers]

BP, when Katonka became my animal companion, he is supposed to learn some tricks.
1. Are these automatic? meaning, does he have them now?
2. What would be good choices? I do not want Katonka to have to fight but I might like to ride him in battle someday.

[Black Plauge]

The bonus tricks from being an animal companion are automatic and require no training. The ones due to normal intelligence need to be trained.

Katonka's current training is for riding, so he knows come, heel, & stay. He can learn 3 more none bonus tricks.

If you want Katonka to behave in battle, you will need to train him to know either attack or defend. Otherwise, he's considered a non-combat mount (requiring Ride checks to control him in combat).

[My Fellow Gamers]

Defend it is because I do not want him to have to fight. That will be is bonus one.

If I get this right, he will be able to learn two more but they will require training correct?

[Black Plauge]

He can learn 3 more. All three will require 1 week's training each.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Jop, I am going to need Skasa's help with those tricks for Katonka. I cannot do it by myself....

[Jop]

Anytime brother... anytime!

[My Fellow Gamers]

Okay we are waiting on the next post from BP. We are trying to be friendly to the kobolds.

[Black Plauge]

Jop, do me a favor and post in the third person in the IC thread. Its much easier to read and keep track of what's going on when posts say "Skasa does...." rather than "I do..."

I'm not saying Skasa needs to think or speak in the third person (as that would be weird), but you need to act as a narrator in your own posts.

[My Fellow Gamers]

BP, forgot to ask you if you will advertise for a 4th player. Right now we just "replaced" Skasa but are still only 3. I would still like a 4th, our current party does not have many background related info that could become adventure hooks.

It feels like we are just out to adventure and see the world which is fine but in the long run it will become less and less believable. I think it would be fun to have a more concrete goal or mission. Maybe a 4th player could be a link for us to open that side of the game.

Am I off to the deep end? What do you all think?

[Jop]

Jop, do me a favor and post in the third person in the IC thread. Its much easier to read and keep track of what's going on when posts say "Skasa does...." rather than "I do..."

I'm not saying Skasa needs to think or speak in the third person (as that would be weird), but you need to act as a narrator in your own posts.

Ok. Will do.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Can I get a small diagram or a map of where everybody is? My instinct is to scream AMBUSH! but I guess I don`t know enough about where everybody is compared to everybody else.

When you post IC " Manwe'hmato sees" I am assuming it means I am the only one who saw the third group. correct?

[Black Plauge]

The combat thread now contains a schematic diagram (not a map) of everyone's location. If anything is unclear, let me know.

You are correct in assuming that "Manwe'hmato sees" means no one else in the party saw the third group.

Well, actually Meat saw them too, but he's not exactly in a position to say anything, now is he?

[My Fellow Gamers]

That is very clear. Thanks.

Time to warn my lizzy friend.

[Black Plauge]

Van, is Soltlak going to react at all to Manweh'mato's warning?

Oh, and if no one has any further comments on Jop's elven write-up, then I'll transfer it to the races thread.

Also, I'm going to start advertising soon. Do you want me to limit it to one additional player, or would you guys be willing to take more if we have multiple interested parties? Also, do you have any strong desires for the new group members to fill certian party roles (i.e. should I just advertise for players in general, or specifically for, say, an arcane caster)?

[My Fellow Gamers]

Someone with a mission to do......:fun: Seriously, I think anything goes as far as I am concerned. We all got to do what we wanted when we joined and it is our problem if our party is not balanced. As long as they write a race, I say everything is fair game. I would limit it at 5 players however, a maximum of two more.

[Jop]

I agree with MFG.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Depending on what happens with the closest group, I still want us to talk to the Kobolds. I do nothing else until we close the gap distance between the 2 brothers and Soltlak.

[My Fellow Gamers]

We said Soltlak was going to be talking to them because he likes kobolds so I will let Vaniver go first. I have to admit I am a bit nervous about his potential "snap go crazy " answer for Soltlak but hey, you never know.....

[Jop]

I guess because it's that color, they are speaking Draconic huh?

[My Fellow Gamers]

Draconic. Here is the explanation. http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?p=137799#post137799

[Black Plauge]

Getting back to Jop's elven culture write up, I just noticed the additional Religion section, and I'm a little confused by the direct reference to Gruumsh. I understand that what you've got is mostly the traditional D&D view, but I'm skeptical about it given the natural homelands of orcs and elves. I'm not saying you can't have it, but I want some more background on why that particular mythos might have arisen given the oceanic divide between the races.

[Jop]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean...
I've reworded it, and hopefully it's clearer. If not, then I'll fix it (and/or change it).

[Black Plauge]

Well, let me try putting it this way:

To primative elves, the only other races in their world view would have been humans, halflings, gnomes, centaurs, and for those near the water, Sahuagin and Merfolk. Orcs are a race native to a different continent, so primative elves wouldn't have had direct contact with them.

However, the elves you describe have some how developed a mythos that states they were created as the result of a battle between their patron god and the patron god of the orcs. What brought these gods into conflict? Why was Correlon battling with Gruumsh when the spheres of influence of their two races are seperated by literally thousands of miles of open ocean.

I'd like you to at least sketch an outline of how this mythos developed in the elven culture.

[Jop]

Will do.

[Black Plauge]

Note: Soltlak was the one who found out about the possible job, not Hakan.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Ooops. Well that is what happens when we lose posts, memory makes mistakes....any news from the 2 people who posted in the "recruitment" thread ?

[Black Plauge]

No, still waiting on racial write-ups.

[My Fellow Gamers]

ARRGH. I hope we get new blood sometime soon...

As for the game, screw that little kobold. He can choke on his toll. This is what will happen to him....:cool: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=63

[Jop]

Nice use of OOTS... Very nice.

[My Fellow Gamers]

the fact that I am playing a halfling ranger helps my case too......:roll:

[Jop]

BP: I can no longer see the combat thread and our locations... Just in case...

[Black Plauge]

Edit your display options to show threads "From the Begining"

There isn't a current map, however. I haven't updated it.

[Jop]

Cool. Thanks.
That's what it was!

[My Fellow Gamers]

just so we dont get in a fight just for money. 2 GP a foot would be 18 golds total right? 2 for each of us plus 4 more for our mounts.

[Black Plauge]

2 gp a foot would work out to 4 gp for each character and 8 gp for each mount. Each character has two feet, each mount has 4. A grand total of 36 gp for the whole group.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Like I said before.......screw that little kobold. He can choke on his toll.

Jop?, Vaniver? Right now I am in the woopass temptation mode.

[Jop]

I kinda got that feeling... Even without understanding what the heck you guys are talking about!!!

[My Fellow Gamers]

I take it that casting Cat's grace on my PC means you are ready for a fight of whoop ass too?

[My Fellow Gamers]

Now either pay in gold, or we'll take that pony instead." he means the full amount right? 36 GP, just to make sure before I send him to hell (at least in my thoughts)

[Black Plauge]

You'll have to ask him that.

[Black Plauge]

Oh, and we've got our first applicant. Stop on by the sign-up thread (http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?p=140193#post140193) and tell me what you think here. Its certianly got some ideas that I hadn't considered before, but that do make some element of sense.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Dwarves do not possess many lands of their own, but the ones they do have are very close to water of some kind. Well, in Dunya they do. Right next to bugbears and lizardfolk both of hich were written by players and include references to dwarfs

[Vaniver]

Hmm... didn't I have Soltlak's character sheet posted here? It appears to have disappeared, or maybe I'm not looking in the right spot.

[Black Plauge]

Check your display options at the bottom of the screen to make sure you're seeing the threads "From the Begining."

[Black Plauge]

How many coins is Soltlak holding out? I want to make sure before I post the reactions of the kobolds.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Hard to tell, at least twelve and probaly a bit more. His PC sheet says he's rich....(just checked it)I would flee before paying them any money. Fighting will be if we have to, but I really don't want to pay them!

[Vaniver]

He's giving them 18. And doh, I should have checked this before I asked...

[My Fellow Gamers]

Right now, Soltlak is just counting the money right? He has not given any to the kobolds yet, correct?

[Black Plauge]

As I understand it he's giving them the money. If you want to interfere with that process, then you'll need to ammend your post or make a new one soon. My plan was to update later today with the kobold's reactions to Soltlak's pay out.

[My Fellow Gamers]

No, no need. I spoke my mind. If Soltlak wants to give the money I wont try to stop him. I do not want him to give it but I will not do anything but use words to dissuade him.

[Jop]

Do I know and/or notice if they understand what me and Manweh'mato are saying?
I mean, do I get a feeling that we can speak and they don't understand... Or do they react every time ('cause we've spoken a little already) we speak to each other like they know what we're saying?

Also, depending on the map, and everyone's location, I might be the one that starts this fight... I.E. cast a spell before we even get into rounds to surprise them.

[Black Plauge]

Skasa is learning pidgin Draconic (technically he's already spent the skill point on it, its just that Conlee wanted to role play the aquisition of the language), so he's got at least a rudimentary idea of what is being said.

You've no clear indication that any of the kobolds speak Deepling (i.e. none have responded directly to something said in Deepling, nor have any actually spoken Deepling). Their reactions have been posted, its up to you to determine whether your character has interpreted those reactions to indicate that they understand Deepling.

[Jop]

Ok thanks.

[Black Plauge]

So much for a peacable solution.

Its Manweh'mato's turn, but I haven't had a chance to post a map yet. Hopefully I'll get to that later today, but if not, expect it tommorow morning.

Oh, and if Soltlak intends to try and suprise people like that, he best work on his bluffing skill.;)

[My Fellow Gamers]

Hahaha, I knew something was up with Soltlak....:roll: I posted my most likely actions. BP, map wasn't up so please adjust accordingly.

[Jop]

Please remember that Manweh'mato has a +4 DEX because of my recently cast Cat's Grace.
A few things changed... The Initiative check is one we always forget.

[My Fellow Gamers]

that's right, make that +11 if within 30 feet and a +6 to the ride check MR. DM.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Come to think of it, BP, if you havent figured the +2 to INIT from Cat's grace, does it change the order in any way. Would I get to act before hornblower kobold?


Also, nobody commented on the dwarves racial write-up or the my comments on the matter....

[Black Plauge]

I failed to take into account the higher iniative mod, but it only makes one change. Manweh'mato acts before Walking Kobold 2. I'll fix that shortly.

Also, I apologize for not having the map up yesterday. I got distracted and forgot about it. I don't have time now, as I'm about to head to a friend's house for Thanksgiving, but I'll post it tonight.

[Vaniver]

I've been out, sorry about that. I should be posting regularly again come Monday.

[Black Plauge]

Not a problem. Seems I was offline for most of the Thanksgiving holiday after all (I wasn't expecting that). I'll get some combat updates posted shortly.

[Black Plauge]

Oh, and I just realized that the iniative count actually doesn't change at all because of the change in Manweh'mato's changed initative modifier. Since Walking Kobold 2 was delaying, he automatically goes immediately after the Mounted Kobold.

[Black Plauge]

Combat is updated. Skasa's turn.

[Jop]

I would like a little more info before I act (see combat thread).

[Black Plauge]

We've got another racial entry. Check it out and tell me what you think.

Oh, and to answer Jop's question. Currently the other groups are 770 ft away and 1060 ft away. Both groups are off to the right of the map in pretty much a straight line.

[Black Plauge]

Jop, when you say "walk over to Meat" are you dismounting, or simply directing your riding dog to move?

Also, Entangle has a 40ft spread (putting the entire party within the spell, given the designated center). Given the nature of the road, the center squares won't be effected by the spell, but the plants on the edges of the road will entangle anyone adjacent to them. The edge is not a hard and fast barrier, it more fades into the grasses. I wanted to make that clear before applying the effects of the spell.

[Jop]

Oops. I read 40ft diameter, therefore 20ft radius, therefore it barely reached the road.
Sooooo... I'll edit my post to read 40ft right of the creature instead of 15ft.
And yes, I ride my dog.
You'll have to indulge me a little as this is my first combat here with you guys, and I'm not fully aware of exactly what you need to know. But thanks for clarifying before setting it in stone.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Is the kobold that Manweh'mato hit still on his feet?

I will go check out the other racial write up. Hope it has a little more details than the dwarves....

[My Fellow Gamers]

Has anyone told Vaniver he has to post in the combat thread? Should someone PM him? this is taking quite a long time.....

[Black Plauge]

Since Soltlak initiated the combat, I know what he's doing this round, so what we're really waiting on is me to update things.

Seeing as I'm just posting between meetings right now, I don't have the time to do that right now, but should be able to update things late this afternoon or this evening (5ish).

[Black Plauge]

Well, a database error prevented me from updating last night, but things are working again and I've posted. We're back to Manweh'mato's turn in the initiative order.

[My Fellow Gamers]

I updated my actions in the combat thread.

[Black Plauge]

I've updated the action portion of the combat thread, however, I need to know what square Skasa is dismounting into to update the map. Jop, a little clarification please?

[Jop]

I'm not sure how you want me to be clearer than 5ft to the left of my current position?
Um... one square left of where I am now?
Let me know how I am supposed to incicate movement...

[Black Plauge]

You stated that you were going to have the mount move 5ft to the left of your current position (which is fine and clear) and then you were going to dismount. Since you can't be in the same square as your mount when you're not mounted you need to specify a unoccupied square adjacent to your mount's position into which you are dismounting.

[Jop]

Riiiight. Sorry about that. I was under the impression I could be in the same square. Now I understand.
I'll dismount one more square left.

[My Fellow Gamers]

So I am back in towm, what did I miss? :roll: Did we plan an exit strategy for this fight? hahaha, sorry couldn't help it....

[Jop]

You started the fight.
You get us out of it.
Haha. Ha.

[My Fellow Gamers]

technically, I did not. Soltlak did. I wanted to fight them because I thought they were rude but wasn't going to be the instigator.

[Black Plauge]

MFG, Manweh'mato's declared target is unconcious as the result of Soltlak's attack. Do you wish to change who you're shooting at?

[Black Plauge]

We've got one person that's put forward two races (orcs and ogres) and another who's put forward one (gnomes). Does anybody have any comments on them? Do people think the writers would make good players? Also what about the writer who submitted the dwarves earlier? I know there were some problems with how the description would mesh with the world, and those will need to be addressed before the race description is added to the setting cannon, but how what do people think about the author as a potential player based on his submission?

http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?p=142991#post142991

[Jop]

I'm good with all of them. But I doubt my rookie status gives me enough power over that decision!!!

Can I tell that Soltak is hurtin' ??? I want to go over and cure him, but only if it's "in character"... I'll wait before I post my next action.

[My Fellow Gamers]

MFG, Manweh'mato's declared target is unconcious as the result of Soltlak's attack. Do you wish to change who you're shooting at?

Yes, I do. I want to fire my arrows at the single most threathening kobold for Soltlak. Still full attack with rapid shot.

[My Fellow Gamers]

About the new players, I already stated that the dwarves entry was very conflicting with the current setting and also very very short.

I like the orcs/ogres entry and the gnome entry as well. I am unsure if the gnome fits that well with the Elves Jop wrote because they changed a bit and did not re-read the whole thing.

My vote therefore goes for Orcs/Ogres and Gnome entries.

[Black Plauge]

Given that Jop's elves entry hasn't been added to the Races thread yet, I think some discrepancies between it and the gnomes entry are forgivable. Which reminds me, if no one has any further comments on Jop's elves, then I need to add them to the races thread.

My only issue with the ogres entry is that it mentions the ogres previously enslaving humans. That's something that doesn't quite make sense on a continental scale, but its only a brief mention and something that should be easily fixed.

Oh, and Jop, Skasa doesn't have to move to touch Soltlak. A mouted character is considered to occupy the same space as their mount. I merely place Soltlak mini-pic in one corner of the mount's square to avoid clutter. Its the same reason I slightly offset the images of the halflings and their mounts from the center of the square they're in. Do you still want Skasa to move?

[Jop]

I've updated my Round 3 actions.

[Black Plauge]

Thank you. Soltlak's turn.

[Black Plauge]

Round 4, Manweh'mato's turn.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Skasa's turn now.....I updated.

[My Fellow Gamers]

question: How does diehard(the feat) change the house rules we have for Hp and reserve points and Con damage?

[My Fellow Gamers]

GRIMLOCK RACE (draft please comment)


Personality: Grimlocks are a race of complete duality. They can be divided into the groups of the sages and the warriors. Grimlocks Sages are thirsty for new and old knowledge. They crave legends and stories. If they ever meet someone who knows more about a subject than they do, they will question them restlessly and learn as much as they can. Almost all learning for grimlocks is oratory and therefore they are patient, good listeners and public speaking is second nature for them. They always have a few apprentices with them that are studying under them to pass on their master's knowledge to the next generation. Grimlocks Warriors have a violent streak in them. They dot not have any patience and see intruders as a potential danger to be stopped at any costs. They fight first and usually have no remorse in killing any outsider they encounter. They are true masters of the art of killing quickly. They take no pleasure in this but for them, it is the only way their race will survive the brutal world of Dünya. They are pragmatists that understand brute force works wonders almost all the time. However, the general population of grimlocks mostly will keep to themselves if not disturbed and quietly go about their buisness. They have learned to trust some races a little at a time but the ones who do not travel outsides of grimlock lands are quite xenophobic in nature. They do enjoy the peace and quiet and it is one of the reason they have adapted to the opposite cycle of almost all the races as far as the seasons go.

Physical Description: Grimlocks are muscular humanoids with thick, gray, scaly skin and no visible eyes. They do posess eye sockets and all the proper muscle to move potential eyes but not eyes themselves. It is commonly known that Grimlocks consider this a curse from Io for choosing Pelor over him many büyüksenes ago. It is then that the division within the race appeared. While they are quite strong physically and able workers, living underground during the summer and outside during the winter has kept their bodies quite compact and sometimes difformed. They do not have pleasing appearances to the races who can see. Warts, scars, deformed ears and really bad dentition are just a few examples of their lack of grooming and physical unnattractiveness. They have quite large hands compared to other humadoid and some venture that is it because their sense of touch is more accute since the race lost their vision.

Relations:
For most races of Dünya, Grimlocks are a necessary evil to endure for they are the keepers of history. The ones encountered outside of their native lands are almost exlusively sages. They have a habit of telling the same stories over and over again to get their point across. Most would be qualified as eccentric or borderline insane because of their stranges ways. They are quite annoying if you do not know anything about them and have dealings with them for an extended period of time. The positive side is that they have very broad knowledge that many races have all but forgotten over the büyüksenes. Many grimlocks consider themsleves the most educated in matters of Dünya's history and are proud of that role. They are also very trustworthy and reliable as courriers and diplomats. They are trusted in this role because most a bit naively believe that because they cannot see they make for poor spies. They also have a small but fierce tradition of very capable assasins. Even while lacking physical eyes, most grimlocks tend to have visions of apocaliptic events and grimlocks would never make fun of another grimlock's visions.



Alignment: Tend towards true neutral because of the role they play as historians and diplomats. Some tend towards neutral good just like Pelor and some tend towards neutral evil because of the hatred for Io and the curse they suffer. (see religion below)


Grimlock Lands: The major settlements of Grimlocks are on the mainland part of their territory. The numerous islands that are the rest of their lands are very varied. While most grimlocks favor the closed spaces of caves, some tribes live outside. It all depends on the religious view of the tribe. Grimlocks lands have had many minor religious wars in its recent history. Sages have been kept seperate from this conflict but both pro Pelor and anti-Pelor Warriors have fought in religious conflicts.


Religion: When the dragons where made into the wheel, the grimlocks starting favoring Pelor over Io. Io the creator didn't approve and instructed them to cease. They kept favoring Pelor even after this warning. Io took action and took their eyesight away to teach the new races of Dünya a lesson. Since then, they are the keepers of history, they have very elaborate oral traditions and have been separated religiously in 3 groups. Some continued to love and revere Pelor as a god and ask him to lift the curse Io put on them. Some have turn to vengeance and evil ways and deal with the god of secrets and trickery in the hopes of getting back what they lost. Some simply abandoned their religious beliefs and have turned to the outside world looking for knowledge and peace from the religious schism in their homeland.


Languages: Draconic and Grimlock ( they would be the only race with two languages, not a big boon if you ask me)


Grimlock Racial Traits : same as MM, with these changes in extra.
fav class: Expert (sage) or Barbarian
Expert get no bonus to STR and no penalty to CHA.

[Black Plauge]

question: How does diehard(the feat) change the house rules we have for Hp and reserve points and Con damage?

http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5194

Second feat listed.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Can't believe I did not see it. I read that....grrr. guess I was tired...

Any comments on the grimlocks?

[Black Plauge]

I haven't had a chance to really read it yet (I skimmed it). I'm really busy at the moment trying to wrap up the semester, so it'll probably take me a day or two to properly think things through.

[Black Plauge]

Given what just happened to Soltlak, I'm giving Jop a chance to change Skasa's action if he wants to.

[My Fellow Gamers]

I think he already changed it.
No problem for the Grimlocks.
I will look at another racial write-up that might interest me.

[Jop]

Yeah. I changed it. I didn't Soltak would go down again!!!

[Black Plauge]

You're opponents got lucky.

[My Fellow Gamers]

I think we will need a bit of luck ourselves before the end of this fight. Time to go rub my rabbit foot.....

[Jop]

I think Van posted, but did not change his subject to Round 4.
Also, maybe his action will be different after he gets a few HP's back...

[Black Plauge]

Skasa's updated action has been resolved. Soltlak is now concious once again. I take it that Vaniver would like to change his action?

[Black Plauge]

Jop, Vaniver, do you guys have anything you want to say about the submissions? I've heard MFG's opinion, and am inclined to agree with it, but you guys are just as much invested in this game as I am. I'd like to know what you think.

[Black Plauge]

Okay, I've had a chance to look over the Grimlocks and I like what I see for the most part. The mechanics details need to be worked out as the MM puts them at a starting ECL 4 and I'd really like to reduce that to 3 if at all possible. Any suggestions?

My one concern with what you've written, MFG, is that the Grimlocks are native to a part of the world where Pelor doesn't shine (at least, not any more). Why are creatures who no longer see Pelor (if "see" can really be the right word for a race of blind men), worshiping that deity? Are they longing for a return of the sun god? Do the believe they offended him and need to make ammends? Or is there some other reason? I'd like you to think about it and make at least a few comments about it in the write up.

[Jop]

Reuban's entry I like.

[My Fellow Gamers]

just came back from a kickass bon jovi show. Will think about what you said when my ears stop ringing.....

[Black Plauge]

Manweh'mato's turn. Talk about some bad rolling there at the end of the round. At least it was on both sides.

[My Fellow Gamers]

REVISED VERSION, haven't adressed ECL 4 problem yet

never mind, lost my post. Will re-write.

[Black Plauge]

I like this much better. It addresses the concern I had.
Errr... Well, I did like it before you lost your post. I guess I'll have to hold my comments until you've had a chance to rewrite it, again.

Anyone else have any comments on MFG's Grimlocks?

If no one objects, I'll extend the invitation to Reuban and Aethyc to join the game tomorrow evening. We'll then take an opportunity to give their racial write ups a final review before adding them to the canon (especially the gnomes, who will have to be double checked for alignment with the elves). Ideally I'd like to introduce their characters when you guys catch up with the caravan.

[Jop]

Sound good to me!

OOC: Brother... I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know what you mean?

[My Fellow Gamers]

It means make some mojo stuff incapacitate these kobolds or somtin'......and double quick

[Black Plauge]

Two down, and one on the run.

Now, will you stick around long enough for him to gather reinforcements?

[My Fellow Gamers]

does the entangle affect line of sight from Manweh'mato to Kobold 3?

[Black Plauge]

No. Entangle doesn't actually change anything about the terrain, it just makes it so that the vegitation within the area moves to restrain anyone in the area.

However, Kobold 3 is in the high grass now, so he does get the benefit of concealment.

[My Fellow Gamers]

All right, not exactly the same as what I had writen but here goes....


Religion: When the dragons where made into the wheel, the grimlocks starting favoring Pelor over Io. Io the creator didn't approve and instructed them to cease. The small races were not to worship the Sun god in the lands he did not rule over. They kept favoring Pelor even after this warning. Io took immideate action and took their eyesight away to teach the new races of Dünya a lesson. Since then, they are the keepers of history, they have very elaborate oral traditions and have been separated religiously in 3 groups. Some continued to love and revere Pelor as a god and ask him to lift the curse Io put on them. They long and hope for the return of the Sun god over their skies. They named this period "The longest Night" and hope for it to end and have their eyesight returned. Their places of worship are usually outside, in well maintained pretty open shrines or walls. Most temples of Pelor in grimlock lands do not have a roof in case the Sun god returns, they want to enjoy him right away.
A second group has turn to vengeance and evil ways and deal with the god of secrets and trickery in the hopes of getting back what they lost without divine intervention from Io. They are quite fanatic and willing to go to religious extremes to accomplish their stated goal. Their places of worship are usually undergroung in sometives very well hidden or simply secret locations.
Some simply abandoned their religious beliefs and have turned to the outside world looking for knowledge and peace from the religious schism in their homeland. Sages are most of the time from this last group.

GRIMLOCKS AS CHARACTERS

Grimlock characters possess the following racial traits.

— +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, –2 Wisdom, –4 Charisma for everyone except Sages
Sages: +2 Constitution , -2 Wisdom
—Medium size.
—A grimlock’s base land speed is 30 feet.

—Racial Hit Dice: A grimlock begins with two levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +3, and Will +3.

—Racial Skills: A grimlock’s monstrous humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 2 x (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, and Spot. Grimlocks gain a +10 racial bonus on Hide checks in mountain or underground settings.

—Racial Feats: A grimlock’s monstrous humanoid levels give it one feat.

—Weapon Proficiency: A grimlock is automatically proficient with the battleaxe.

— +2 natural armor bonus.

—Special Qualities (see above): Blindsight 40 ft., immunities, scent.

—Automatic Languages: Grimlock. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Gnome, Terran, Undercommon.

—Favored Class: Barbarian or Expert (for Sages)

—Level adjustment +1.



notes: removed the +2 to Dex and went from +4 to +2 for Natural armor. This in my mind is enough to drop the level adjustment by 1 to +1 for a ECL3 race.

[My Fellow Gamers]

I realized I had never actually written anything down for the Bugbear's religion entry. Here it is.

Religion: Religion is somewhat very loosely defined for any Bugbear. He his move devoted to getting more grazing land, animals or personal wealth that getting spiritual enlighthenment. The poorest of bugbear do revere Obad-hai for giving them fertile lands to work on and feed their animals. The participants in equestrian contest or battle will utter a short prayer to Kord, hoping for strenght but also a bit of luck. Those going on a long trip or risky buisness venture might have a small ceremony to Fharlanghn before departure but nothing really fancy. Very few temples are present however in all of the bugbear lands. The few that do exists are built next to the few permanent buildings of the richest bugbear tribes. They also serve a very serious purpose. To turn out a profit from healing and other services provided by rare clerics of the Gods. But bugbears as a race, are generally more commercially inclined than spiritually inclined.

[Black Plauge]

I like the grimlock's religion revision. I'd say that technically there are only two religious groups and that those who've abandoned the faith don't really count as a group, but I guess that's more a matter of how you count groups than anything else.

Mechanically, there is no common tounge, so that has to be removed from the languages line. Also, I'd specify that the Expert favored class is specifically for the sages. The racial skills should only be 2 x, not 5 x, but that because of a quirk in character generation that I decided to implement (first class level gets 4x skill points, not first hd) rather than any balancing factor. Other than that, I think things look good.

I also like the Bugbear religion entry.

If there are no other comments, I'll add both to the cannon.

I've extended the invitation to join to Aethyc and Reuban as we discussed. They should be posting their racial write-ups here for a final check and a mechanics discussion.

[Aethyc]

Hey guys, thanks for having me! My racial writeup, copied and pasted:

Personality: Naturally inquisitive, gnomes have a deep desire to learn about the world around them. Gnomes love to make mechanical objects and tinker with just about anything they can get their hands on. Gnomes are generally outgoing and love to talk about anything that comes to mind; whether or not this disturbs the recipient of the conversation is rarely applicable. Practical jokes are almost a given; gnomes love to make contraptions that will embarrass others, although this is rarely done with any malice in mind. Gnomes are also very handy with illusions, commonly using them in their practical jokes; although these are seriously discouraged by their elven masters it is still quite a common occurrence.

Society: Few gnomes remember what it was like before they allied with the elves, but legends among the gnomes tell that for many küçüksenes the gnomes wandered the land. Necessity forced them to make an alliance with the elves to keep both races from extinction. This sham of an alliance has kept the two races together and alive, but has led to the elves enslaving the vast majority of the gnomish population. Some of the gnomes are made to work in the mines or the forges to furnish any metallic items the elves need for use or trade. Many gnomes labor in the elven homes as housekeepers or servants, or as laborers in the fields. Outside of the elven lands gnomes have no real society, instead assimilating into whatever society they happen to come across. They generally take jobs as repairmen, wandering salesmen or tinkers, whatever position fills their belly and is moderately interesting to them. Some gnomes make their living as inventors or, sometimes, teachers, if the right pupil comes along.

Lands: Gnomes live with the elves in the southern half of Kýta, mostly in the forests. Some of the gnomes live in the mountains nearby. The gnomes have no lands to call their own, instead inhabiting the lands of the elves or, if they have escaped, whoever lets them in.

Physical Description: Gnomes are about the same size as Halflings, standing roughly 3 feet tall at adulthood. Gnomes are easily recognized by their bulbous noses and wild hair, which normally ranges from reddish to brown or black. Most gnomes are somewhat stocky, though the ones kept in the elven lands are more ragged and beaten in. Gnomes generally mature by 25 küçüksenes and die of old age at around 300 küçüksenes. Most gnomes have little facial hair, although some grow beards.

Relations: Most gnomes are kept in bondage by their elven masters, and this has sorely damaged the relationship between the two. Some gnomes have begrudgingly accepted this position of servitude, but many of the gnomes constantly strive for freedom, although no leader has arrived to lead them out and no change is expected in the elves’ mentality. Gnomes outside of the elven lands have generally good relationships with others. The tricks that gnomes have a tendency to play can hamper this relationship, but the ability of gnomes to tinker and improve anything has led them to be accepted nearly anywhere they go.

Alignment: The wanderlust and love of pranks leads most gnomes towards a more chaotic lifestyle. Gnomes tend to dislike laws that specifically prohibit the things that they love to do, and will break those laws, sometimes just to see if they can. Some gnomes that have been enslaved by the elves turn towards evil, especially against the elves; gnomes in general tend towards neutrality or even good, though most gnomes have little preference.

Religion: Generally Garl Glittergold, although worship of Corellon Larethian is sometimes imposed on the gnomes by the elves, depending on the strictness of the master and the temperament of the gnome.

Languages: Gnomes primarily speak elvish, and although the elves discourage it, many gnomes teach their children to speak gnomish as well. Gnomes born outside the elvish land speak gnomish and whatever language is used the area: usually human or halfling.

Racial Abilities:
• +2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, –2 Strength.
• Small: As a Small creature, a gnome gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
• Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.
• A gnome begins play with 3 levels of humanoid. This grants them 3 HD, 3d8 hp (and rp), +2 BAB, +3 Fort save, +1 Ref save, and +3 Will save.
• A gnome’s racial levels grant them two feats.
• A gnome’s racial levels grant them (4 + Int Modifier) x 3 skill points. A gnome’s racial class skills are Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Spellcraft, and Swim.
• Low-Light Vision: A gnome can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
• Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons.
• Bardic Tradition: A gnome who takes bard as his first class level is treated as having a caster level equal to his total HD. This ability does not stack with Practiced Spellcaster. It does not affect spells per day or spells known, but does increase duration and other spell effects dependant on caster level.
• +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
• Add +2 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects.
• +4 racial bonus on Listen checks.
• +4 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
• Automatic Languages: Elven. Bonus Languages: Gnome, Halfling, and Human. In addition, a gnome can speak with a burrowing mammal (a badger, fox, rabbit, or the like, see below). This ability is innate to gnomes. See the speak with animals spell description.
• Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, mirror image, prestidigitation. Caster level 4th; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
• Favored Class: Bard. A multiclass gnome’s bard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.

I copied and pasted what BP had written as the gnomish racial traits

After reading through Jop's elf culture, it seems like it lines up fairly well; it makes sense that the gnomes would take their racial relations a little harsher. As well, if any changes are to be made, should i repost the racial writeup or edit this one?

On character creation: do we use the racial abilities minus the racial hitdice? I assume the characters are going to be 4th level ( unless the party levels up from the encounter with the kobolds... kinda unlikely) - as well, do the characters start with the standard gold for 4th levels (5,400) and if so, are there any restrictions on spending it?

Edit: Edited the racial abilities section to remove common and (edit2) add elvish as base language, added gnome to the other languages as bonus languages learned; took out other bonus languages

[My Fellow Gamers]

made some corrections to the Grimlocks.

Gnomes have the same mistake I did. Common language.

[My Fellow Gamers]

for the combat, I think we should stay and fight, they will chase us anyways. At the very least, we should pick up the coins who started this fight....money rules everything ...even in Dünya!

[My Fellow Gamers]

I updated my round 6 actions.

[Black Plauge]

Since you're only firing once, and you're mounted, Manweh'mato can direct Katonka to take either a single or double move action. Its unclear from your post which is your intention. Care to clarify MFG?

Concerning languages for gnomes, I think we make Elven the automatic language and make Gnomish a bonus one. Its unusual, but given the racial background I think it makes sense. I also think that Dwarven, Draconic, Goblin, Orc, and Giant should be removed from the bonus languages while Centaur should be added.

For character creation. I'd like the new guys to use the rules as written for the pre-class racial hit dice. I know this is different from the way the current characters were made, and may lead to some imbalances, but I'd like to playtest the pre-class hit dice settings to make sure they're about right. If things turn out to be vastly out of wack, I'll let you remake the characters in the traditional manner.

Character ECL should be 4 with 0 XP (you've spent it leveling up). Standard 3rd level starting wealth plus 300 gp (that's about where the others are right now, if my calculations are correct). No restrictions on spending, but you are adventuring, so make sure you don't forget the mundane necessities when purchasing equipment (backpack, bedroll, etc.). No racial restrictions, but if you'd like to use a race that isn't already written up, I'd appreciate at least an outline of the racial culture before you make the character. Hit dice and ability scores can be generated by 4d6 drop low, arange as desired (using Irony Game's Email Dice Roller (http://www.irony.com/mailroll.html)) or using the 28 point buy (for abilities) and half HD+1 (for hp). If you choose to roll, you can't switch to point buy if you don't like your rolls unless they qualify for a reroll. Rerolls are only allowed under the conditions specified in the PHB (no score above 13 or total modifier +2 or less, before racial mods).

First class hit die is maximized. Pre-class HD are always rolled (or take the standard). A similar thing goes for skill points. I.e. First class skill points are at 4x standard. Pre-class skill points are always at standard.

Your characters will be travelling with a trading caravan on the continent of Mór-thir, headed towards the Manead lands of Vastelande (actually, you'll part ways with the caravan after crossing the izmuth, as they're headed elsewhere). You've agreed to work for a Manead who is having some ancestor trouble (he won't be more specific than that). If you want to be the Manead, PM me and we'll discuss it.

Character sheets should be posted using a multi-post format along the lines of the other characters.

Have I forgotten anything?

[My Fellow Gamers]

Double move is fine.

[Reuban]

Here is my racial write-up on the Ogre's:

Ogre
Personality: Most Ogre's have a personality as big as they are. Whatever individual traits they have tend to be toward the extremes. They rule over the central portion of the continent Mor-thir through this strength of personality. When the balanceing occured and the Ogre's size and strength was no longer thier biggest asset, they turned to using thier charisma and force of personality to get ahead of the other races, and each other. Ogre's tend to use strength and intimidation to get thier point accross. If need be they will resort to physical means to keep thier slaves in-line. The Ogre's are a brutal people to those who they enslave treating them as lesser beings. They do however treat others well, and even have a grudging respect for those who were once enslaved, and have since become free.

Society: Ogre society is based upon the owning of slaves. Not all ogre's are slave owners, but many are, and often ownership is a sign of prestige. Over the years many races including the kobolds, and goblins have rejected or thrown off the reigns of Ogre slavery. However, this is the culture that the Ogre's know, and they continue to pursue it, moving on to bend another race to thier will. Many of the races they have enslaved have since forgotten thier reign. The most recent race to throw off the mantle of Ogre control, the Gnoll's, bear a stong hatred for the Ogre's and what they have done to them. It has been some 300 küçüksene since the Gnoll's were enslaved, but they still bear hatred toward the Ogre's. Ogre's congregate in medium sized cities. The economy is driven by the ownership of slaves. Orc slaves run all manner of things in the Ogre's kingdom. Thier society is essentially slavery driven capitalism.

Physical Description: Ogre's stand anywhere from 8-10 feet tall. They weigh from 450-600 Lbs. Thier size and generally mean expression, along with thier hunchbacked walk help to make them intimidating to other races. Ogres tend to have dark hair that covers most of thier bodies, although many more succesful Ogre's shave everything below thier neck, as they are always wearing fine silks, and furs, and have no need of the hair.

Relations: While Ogre's have made some enemies over time, they have made amends with most of them. The only race that still openly hates Ogres for being Ogres are the Gnolls. Most other races have a severe distrust for Ogres, however they will still trade heartily with them, because of the inexpensive well made goods thier slavery system can provide.

Alignment: Ogre's tend to be more lawful in nature. They see thier regimented society as a way to keep order, and save other races from thier own devices. Ogre's run the scale from good to evil, as some Ogre's trully believe they are helping an enslaved race, by bringing them up from savage nomads, into productive workers. These Ogres make kind and fair slave holder. Some however know they are profiting unjustly from anothers work, and continue to beat, or intimidate the most out of thier slaves.

Ogre Lands: The Ogre's control a fertile portion of Mor-thir. They do extensive farming, along with some mining. The land is dotted with several cities with populations ranging from 500 to 10000.

Religion: The Ogre's believe in a large patheon of gods. There is no individual god that is worshiped more than others. Religion plays more of a background role, as long as slavery can be justified by the clerics.

Languages: Giant, Orc Bonus: Gnoll, Draconic, Goblin

[Reuban]

And the Orcs:

The Orcs to go with the above Ogres

Orc
Personality: About 250 küçüksene ago, bands of Ogre's decended onto the lands of the orcs. Before this period Orcs were a savage warlike race. Making war all along thier borders, and also amongst themselves. They were at the edge of what could be considered an intelligent being. Purley making war, for the sake of war. They were never a major threat to those around them, as the tribes were always unorganized, and often fought one another when one tribe looked to get ahead. The age of the Ogre changed all of this for the orcs. The Ogres came and systimatically took over the tribes, destroying the leadership and brining the orcs to heal through cunning and often brute force. The Ogre's began the creation of cities, and what has become known as the civilization of the orcs. Orcs are now a civilized, if cowed people. Over the years the physical skills have been brought out in the population by the Ogres, while the suppression of any education for the orcs has created an intelligence drain. The orcs have also been cowed by years of service to the Ogres and have lost much of thier ideals of personal freedom.
Society: Orc society is one of slavery. Few orcs try to escape bondage, and fewer yet do so succesfully. There is a small but growing Orc underground, helped and nurished by the Gnolls to the north. The orcs have banded together around the one thing not taken away from them, thier religion. For the most part, many Orcs have accepted thier lot, and live in contentment of thier slavery. Some are frightened to be free, others yearn to be so, but are afraid of thier Ogre captors. There are less than 100 free Orcs withing the Orc lands. They have earned thier freedom through work, and often it takes several generations of dedicated service by a particular family for one child to atain thier freedom.

Physical Description: If anything Orcs have become bigger during thier period of Slavery. Orcs average a little under 7 feet tall, and weight almost 300 lbs. Thier fingers have also been elongated slightly to allow for better manipulation of tools. Only the heartiest Orcs have survived over time providing them with a good constitution.

Relations: Orcs are not officially allowed relations with other races. The few orcs outside of the Ogre kingdom tend to be easily frightened and distrustful of others. The orc underground has a growing relationship with the gnolls to the north that both sides are trying to increase.

Alignment: Orcs can be of any alignment. They tend to be weaker willed, and thus often follow the alignment of those around them.

Orc Lands: The Orcs own no lands of thier own. They live upon the lands of the Ogres.

Religion: Orcs still believe strongly in Grummsh, but he has changed over the years. He has been changed (by Ogre influence) into the god who brought the Ogre saviors to the savage orcs. The orcs worship at least twice per hafta. Standing within the church, is an indicator of one's place within society. The few free orcs who have earned thier freedom, often serve as the leaders of a given church.

Languages: Orc Bonus Languages: Gnoll, Giant

[Aethyc]

Even though I am a pretty heavy powergamer (I like to min/max... sue me) I'll try to go along with the racial hitdice and see if I can make them work. I could have made a kobold wiz or sorc (since they have no racial hitdice; probably an oversight, although Lizardmen have no racial hitdice either, but do have LA; both done by Vaniver... ), but I decided to stick to my original character idea. Personally, I feel that there would have to be more racial bonuses to make the penalty of racial hitdice, especially compared to base races/classes, but I guess thats why we are playing it. I don't want to try to hijack BP's campaign or anything, but if he or anyone else wants to discuss ideas I am open to do so. I should be posting my character sheet shortly.

[Black Plauge]

Kobolds and Lizardfolk don't have racial hit dice because they were written up before I decided to experiment with this rule. That's something that will have to be fixed at some point (sooner if you want to use one of the races).

Also, if you look at the racial write-ups that do have racial hit dice, you'll note that I haven't simply tacked on the racial HD. Each race has additional racial special abilities to make up for the lower power of the racial HD. Essentially, its like taking the paragon class in Arcana Unearthed (for those races that are listed there).

For example here's the list of Human Racial traits in Dünya:
• +2 to any ability score. This ability score must be chosen at character creation and cannot be changed later.
• Medium: as Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to size.
• Human base land speed is 30 feet.
• A human begins play with three levels of humanoid. This grants them 3 HD, 3d8 hp (and rp), +2 BAB, +1 Fort save, +1 Ref save, and +3 Will save.
• A human’s racial levels grant them two feats. They also get two bonus feats because humans are adaptive and quick to learn. They may select these two bonus feats from any they qualify for.
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level, since humans are versatile and capable.
• A human’s racial levels grant them (4 + Int Modifier) x 3 skill points (does not include the extra skill point humans get at every level). A human can choose any 10 skills as racial skills on which to spend these skill points.
• Adaptive Learning (Ex): A human can designate any one of his selected human class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes that character takes. For example, a human who chooses Spot as an adaptive skill can treat Spot as a class skill for all future class levels, even if it is not normally a class skill for those classes.
• Apprentice Spellcaster (Ex): Humans who take a spellcasting class as their first class treat their caster level as two higher than normal. This ability does not affect their spells per day or spells known. It increases their caster level only, which would help them penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of their spells that are dependant on caster level. This ability stacks with the Practiced Spellcaster feat (CAr), but the two bonuses together cannot raise the human’s caster level beyond their hit dice (i.e. a Human Wiz 1, 4 HD, who takes Practiced Spellcaster has a caster level of 4, not 6). If the character does not take a spellcasting class as their first class this ability has no effect.
• Automatic Language: Human. Bonus Languages: Any (barring secret languages), Humans mingle with all the other races, and thus can learn their languages.

For comparison, here's the standard PHB human:
* Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Human base land speed is 30 feet.
* 1 extra feat at 1st level.
* 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
* Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
* Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

You'll note the lists are quite a bit different, with the Dünya human having quite a few more abilities to bring it up to ECL 3 without any class levels.

Or at least, that's the intent. It remains to be seen how well I've struck that balance.

[Reuban]

So, just to make sure I understand (I haven't played racial HD before). Since most races have 3 levels of racial HD, and we are starting at ECL 4. We would essentially be the race as written plus one class level. Is this correct?

I'm thinking of playing a Rogue type character. Not sure what race I am going to play yet. I would consider the Manead(If they would make a good rogue) but I'm not even sure what they are. Where are they found? (Not in the SRD I have at work).

Reu

[Black Plauge]

Reuban-

Humans and ogres are native to differnt continents on Dünya, thus its unlikely that the ogres have ever enslaved the human race they way they currently enslave the orc race (though some may have at different times had human slaves).

For mechanics, this is what I'm proposing to start:
Ogres
+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha
Medium (monstrous?) Humanoid
Speed 30ft
+1 Natural Armor
Low-light Vision
Powerful Build
2 (monstrous?) humanoid HD (with commenserate benefits for skills, BAB, saves, & hp)

The idea is to divorce ogres from their giant type, making them either humanoid or monstrous humanoid and to bring their racial benefits down to the target ECL of 3 (they're currently ECL 6).

Orcs
+6 Strength, –2 Intelligence, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma.
An orc’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 90 feet.
3 humanoid HD (with commenserate benefits to saves, BAB, skills, and hp)
Favored Class: Barbarian.

The idea here is to increase the orc's racial abilities, using the orc paragon class from Arcana Unearthed as a guide. Again, the target ECL is 3.

Comments? Have I got the balance about right in your guy's opinion?

For the maneads, check the psionic races section. They're in the SRD, but are usually seperated since they're a psionic race. Or, you could go here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicRaces.html). Maneads are second to last. If you want to use them, we'll have to discuss how to boost them to ECL 3.

On the racial HD, don't feel bad if you don't understand them, I'm really tweaking the system in incorporating them. Hell, the way I'm including them doesn't even line up with they way they're used normally for the races in the MM that have them. However, yes, the basic idea is that you're making a first level character with a few racial HD tacked on (generally 2 or 3, depending on the race).

[Black Plauge]

Aethyc, what's your source for the Lucerne Hammer, Shorten Grip, Shield and Pike Style, and Braced For Charge? I'm not familiar with them.

[Reuban]

Ahh, I C, the spelling was messing up my search. In the SRD it's Maenads.

I will take a look at them...never played a Psion before.

Reu

[Black Plauge]

Doh! Bad spelling on my part strikes again.

Oh, and you don't have to play a psion with psionic races (though they tend to mesh well with the psionic classes).

[Aethyc]

I got those from the Crystal Keep feat and equipment section; now that I check it, lucerne hammer and the polearm feats are from Dragon Magazine #331; must have been an issue concerning polearms. In the various Crystal Keep indexes, the the feats are on page 27, and the lucerne hammer is page 10.

[Black Plauge]

I don't allow Dragon Mag as a source, as I don't subscribe to it (and thus don't have access to exact wording should a dispute arise) and its contents have a penchant for being over powered (not all the time, but enough that I don't allow it by default).

When using Crystal Keep as a reference, keep in mind that its only an index and covers more than the allowed resources.

Come to think of it, I don't believe I officially have a list of allowed resources posted. I'll fix that here. (http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?p=145001#post145001)

[Aethyc]

Changed my char sheet to be in line with allowed resources; the current weapon is from complete arcane (i believe, I dont have that book, and that is what Crystal Keep listed it as)
If we were to discuss balancing class/race modifications, would we do that here, at a later time once they are playtested more, or in a different thread? Or should we cross that bridge when we get to it?

[Black Plauge]

Balancing races can be discussed here and can be brought up at any time. I want to hear some reasoning as to why you think something is unbalanced, so it may be easier to make a case after the game has progressed a bit, but don't let that stop you if you've alread got an argument for why something is unbalanced.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Here is the first thing that came to my mind with racial HD. Spellcasters are going to have it really difficult. They will be way behind in spell progression. This is not race specific but a rather mechanics related issue.

Second thought was what to do with commoners and people without class level. Will Joe Smith the farmer who never did anything but grow his crops also get 3 HD of Human? Sounds weird....

[Reuban]

BP,

I went to use the email dice roller (and it worked great =) However, I realized I couldn't find your email anywhere. So I got some scores emailed to me, but I assume you want them emailed to you?

Reu

[Aethyc]

I believe I have finished my character sheet, though I will most likely add more to the description/background as I think of it.

Reu- unfortunately, you will have to redo the roll once you find out BP's email address and send the roll to both him and yourself. GL on those rolls too

[Black Plauge]

Oh, yeah, that's right. The ORP email doesn't actually give you the email address.

Rolls should be emailed to BlackPlauge (at) 3rdedition (dot) org

No spaces and replace the () with the appropriate symbol.

I'm about to hit the road to go visit my parents for Christmas. I'll definately have Internet access once I get the their place (late Thursday, early Friday) and I might have Internet tonight when I stop. If all goes well (and I'm not too tired), I'll respond to MFG's thoughts on the HD tonight. If not, then look for it on Friday.

I'll also update the combat thread at the same time (I believe I need to resolve Skasa's actions).

[Reuban]

Will redo my rolls tonight/tommorrow morning as I can't get to irony from work...pesky web blocker.

Reu

[Black Plauge]

Okay, regarding MFG's concerns about spellcasters under the racial HD rules:

The issue, as I see it, is one of keeping up with spells, and how when forced to take racial HD, spellcasters can't do this.

Well, the question is, keeping up with who? Since every character that would take levels in a spell casting class is in the same boat (or will be once I kill off the legacy characters :evil:), having been forced to take racial HD doesn't put anybody down vs. any character.

If you're worried about keeping up with the monsters, then yes, the racial HD does create some problems. Basically, any monster against whom the best tactics involve spells is going to be harder than their CR indicates when a spellcaster is forced to not be a full caster. However, I'm already aware of this and am taking it into account when designing encounters.

Those thoughts are a little discombobulated, but I think they say what I want them to.

As for the Joe Blow commoner having 3 HD, think of it as representing his childhood. The skills and feats that come along with those racial HD are the things he learned growing up. Creatures with less than the racial standard are children, in various stages of development. So a human under 7 might have 1 HD, while one between 7 and 14 would have 2 and one older than 14, but who hasn't aquired his frist class level yet would have 3.

I'm going for a world feel where most everything is just a little bit tougher than in normal D&D. This allows me to open up many more races for players, as its generally harder to downgrade a race to ECL 0 than it is to upgrade a race to ECL 3.

[My Fellow Gamers]

** I am trying to discuss and not be a a**hole. Hope I come across as I intend.**

I guess I did not argue my point well enough before. You addressed one of my concern with the monsters once you stated you will take this into consideration for the challenge monsters will represent. But the other issue I have in mind is class balance.
Let's take a normal power point of a character, in this case 5th level.
Character 1 will be human fighter.
Character 2 will be human wizard.
Both will have two levels in their classes and 3HD of human.
Quick rundown of Strongarm, our fighter.
+4 BAB, good HP ( 3d8+2d10+con )saves will be fort good, reflex poor and Will very decent...because of +3 as a human. Skill points will be not bad at all especially with the human choose 10 skills options. Strongarm will have 6 feats. pretty well rounded PC if you ask me. I am not taking any gear into consideration.No big weakness....

Now, Feeblethigh our mage(wizard) will have...
+3 BAB(pretty useless for him except touch attack spells), decent HP because of 3d8 which up his d4 average , saves ;fort poor, reflex poor, Will will be very good. Skills, much better than fighter because of high INT score, 4 feats but.....will only be able to cast 3 first level spells counting on the bonus spell. Maybe four with 20 INT (possible but unlikely)

Okay, so Strongarm and Feeblethigh meet in adverse conditions. Who would you want to be? The damage potential by Strongarm is quite decent. lets say +8 to hit with favorite weapon (+4 BAB, +3 from STR (he used is human +2 there) and weapon focus). Assume a medium average martial weapon. 1d8+3, 4-12 damage range.
Feeblethigh will shoot is magic missile (arguably most reliable 1st level damage spell) for 1d4+1 damage, up to 4 times per day. Strongarm can do it all day, better protected (armor) and able to withstand more fatigue(hp loss) than Feeblethigh. Take into account a 5 minutes break between two fights between these two and the amount of reserve points Strongarm has is the final nail in Feeblethigh's coffin. I am not even thinking of Strongarm as an archer type build. It gets just sick if I do.

Points I am trying to make. The racial HD are biased in favor of fighter type classes for most races. They even get a boost in their usual demise, the fatal failed will save. +3 is half of the +6 they get as a base save at 20th level usually! A first level fighter will have the will save of a normal 10th level fighter.They also lose close to nothing to get these goodies. d8 to d10 HD is not a big loss. +1 BAB bonus over 3 levels is not much and more skills points than they can dream about as a "normal fighter".

Feeblethigh should be lashing out fireballs and have a few good protective spells at his disposal by then. But he does not. He's got more HP than he would normally have and can fight pretty dang well but without armor ...

Maybe it's just me....but I really think we have a balance issue at up to maybe 9-10th level. Unfortunately, for all my complaining, I have only one possible solution. The saves for the racial HD should go the same as class levels. For example, Strongarm would get +3+1+1 instead of +1+1+3.

Remember, this is just an opinion.

[Aethyc]

I agree with MFG about the spellcaster issue and potential class to class balance issues that arise;
One possible way to fix this would be to change racial abilities that increase caster level to also increase spells known/castable per day; like gaining levels in wizard or any casting class except for the abilities that class gets (familiar, turn undead, etc) - the racial ability would only apply to the first class that you take. However, this unbalances humans to all other races (except gnome bards and elf wizards) because humans would have two additional levels in a spellcasting class.
The way you (BP) explain racial hitdice works well and uses the racial abilities (for casting races), and makes sense for people training: the cleric who spent ages 8 and up training in the church would be able to cast spells better, but not nearly as well as the elf kid who has spent his entire life with magic.
Just throwing out ideas as I think at 1 am: the bonus caster level could be higher to compensate for lacking higher level spells, and could go above the cap for some of the lower spells.

Oh, and the magic missile would do 2 missiles, not one; and by taking practiced spellcaster the wizard could up that to 3 missiles; but, still not nearly as good as straight wizard levels.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Oh, and the magic missile would do 2 missiles for humans yes, for other races no but you knew what I meant....:roll:

[Reuban]

BP,

I have edited the Ogre entry to remove humans.

The rules also look pretty good IMHO.

Reu

[Black Plauge]

There's always been an issue in D&D of spellcasters being weak at low levels and all consuming power at high levels. These racial hit dice might accentuate the problem a bit and perhaps extend it to slightly higher levels before the power tips in favor of the spellcasters, but its nothing new.

Still, that isn't a reason not to consider it.

One of the things I've already done in this realm is given spellcasters bonus 0-level spells. Now, they may not seem like much, but 0-level spells, if used creatively, can be useful, and it only takes an 18 to get 2 bonus 0-level spells.

Still, 0-level spells aren't much, so I'm willing to listen to ideas on how to boost low level casters further (I'm fresh out at the moment). However, I'm also going to turn the tables on you and ask you to consider the high levels too. What ever is suggested to boost low level casters can't turn around and overpower higher level casters later on.

I also subscribe to the school of thought that in comparing two PCs you need to compare their effective contributions to the party, not how they'd match up in a head to head match. Its always possible to set the conditions of a head to head match up to favor one or another class, so that's no real judge of which class is better. As a result, I'd say Feeblethigh is a far more effective contributer than you give him credit. With the beefed up HP and BAB from his racial levels, he's far more likely to parcipate in a combat in a manner besides whining for people to protect him. Put a light crossbow in his hands and he'll be doing better damage than his magic missles. With 3d8+4+(4*con) hp, he won't die if a goblin sneezes on him. Those racial HD have made Feeblethigh more useful to the party, even if he isn't throwing around fireballs.

As for the issue of saves human fighters get lucky in that they get a good will save from their humanoid levels. By the same token, Bugbear clerics are lucky since they get a boost to their normally abysal reflex save, and dwarven wizards are lucky since the get a boost to their fort save (twice over in fact, due to their Con bonus). Its simply one of the things that you have to take into account when designing a character, just like you take into account their ability scores.

I mean, honestly, do you ever consider playing a half-orc sorcerer? Not usually, and if you do you know you have an uphill battle on your hands. The same is true if you choose a race whose racial saves don't cover your weak spot.

[My Fellow Gamers]

All fair points on your part. But the wizard/sorcerer role for most party is damage dealing on a large scale and utility spells/troubleshooting and a few buffs. He can fulfill that role only much later in his level progression. I am not against racial hit dice just pointing out what I think might be problematic.

Spell resistance for monsters for example is usually 11 over the caster level of the party spellcasters. In this case, it would be 14 for most races. A 50-50 chance of your spell working and gone down to 30-70 of working. That is quite a big difference.

Anyways, let's try it and see. I am willing to even be the guinea pig on this. I am used to playing wizards and if you want me to, I could "retire" Manweh'mato and make a new wizard under the current rules to really try it.

[Black Plauge]

If the group's intention is to leave at this point, I'm going to break combat rounds, as you guys can easily outpace the kobolds. If you want to try and retrieve the coins or arrows that missed, I'll need to keep things in combat rounds because of the imminent arrival of reinforcements.

What say you all?

Spell resistance for monsters for example is usually 11 over the caster level of the party spellcasters. In this case, it would be 14 for most races. A 50-50 chance of your spell working and gone down to 30-70 of working. That is quite a big difference.
I see this as more of a manipulation of CR rather than player power. Creatures with spell resistance are tougher in Dünya are more difficult than normal, so their CR should be slightly higher.

Now, I have a proposal for everybody. What if instead of the racial HD counting towards your ECL, they were simply a bonus? Obviously with the legacy characters, that's not something that can be implemented in this game, but its something to think about as a way of fixing the problem that the racial HD cause.

[Black Plauge]

Oh, and Jop, Wambli is an animal companion, not a familiar. Commands to him have to be vocalized unless you've trained him to respond to non-vocal commands (which is unusual). By default, I assume vocal commands in druidic (for a druid), but seeing as you're taking over the character, we can edit that. Also, if you want Wambli to respond to multiple forms of command for the same trick, then you'll need to spend multiple tricks to do it. However, since its just the command that's different, each extra trick spent gets you two extra forms of command, not one. E.g. two tricks spent on "Come" for example, would allow you to command Wambli in three different ways, say a druidic and deepling spoken command as well as a gesture.

MFG, Manweh'mato has the same thing. However, seeing as Katonka is a mount, the commands are assumed to be rein given if riding related. For non-riding related commands, I'll assume its a verbal command in Deepling, unless you specify otherwise when training.

[Reuban]

BP,

When I was looking over your game information I acctually thought that the racial HD were acctually a "bonus" to the character. I don't know how this would effect balance / game play however.

Reu

[My Fellow Gamers]

for the combat, I intend to fire one more time(maybe twice) at the fleeing kobold before retreating at full speed. I do not want him to go and tell his buddies what we look like and who we are.

[Aethyc]

I'm wondering what the reasons for having racial hitdice are in the first place (i.e. mechanics, flavor, etc); knowing what the goal is for the racial hitdice makes it easier, imo, to balance. Having racial hitdice for everyone (especially as a bonus) reminds me of the Grim and Gritty alternate rules where everyone started with more hp but got less hp when they gained levels. If this is part of the plan (make everyone more durable early levels but less durable at high levels) then racial hitdie would work very well. The problem still arises of spellcasters not having access to mid level spells early "enough" (this is definately debatable, given BP's comments on monsters with SR and such) while melee PCs are just as powerful.

Having racial hitdice as bonus (not counting towards ECL) would require some fiddling around with monster (non-standard races as PCs) level adjustment, but that could be done by replacing every racial hitdie with another level adjustment and having the racial hitdie be bonus hitdie. You could tweak some races by giving them bonus hitdie over racial abilities. This is getting more complex by the minute, but you could make racial hitdie give base attack and bonus hitdie give an unnamed bonus to attacks (not base attack); sort of like a bard's inspire greatness, but permanent, with less hp per die. There are two problems that I see with having bonus hitdie: the monsters are going to have to be more powerful (higher CR) to still be a challenge to the party, essentially making the bonus hitdice the same as they are now. The second problem is again class balance: the wizard gains a lot early game (more durability) while not giving up anything late game. The fighter gains some early game (more durability, but to a lesser extent than the wizard; also, slightly more powerful in combat) but does not gain much late game.
Oddly enough, it seems like BP's way of doing racial hitdice works better in the late game. It gives spellcasters durability early game but delays the power of spellcasters to even later in the game, while shoring up weak points of others against some of the save or die spells. The problem, then, is balancing casters against fighters in the early game while, like BP said, not making them even more overpowering late game. Right now, I'm not sure of what to do, but I'll spend some time thinking about it.

[My Fellow Gamers]

I will venture the guess that BP wants everything to be a little bit tougher in Dünya compared to others settings. Racial hit die(s) as a bonus would do that quite well.

It will delay true power for spellcaster while allowing them to survive the death sneeze attack of cannon fodder at the low levels.

[Reuban]

Talking about spell casters / power at early levels while not changing anything late level. This is a little complicated, but what if you give casters progression = to thier racial level, but then they must give up a caster level of progression every 4 or 5 levels.


What this would mean is a 3rd level human / 1st level wizard would have lvl 4 spell progression. Then at some point before level 5 of class(character??) progression they would have to give up 1 level of spell progression, and so on and so forth. So at 18th character level they would only have the spell progression of a 15th level caster.

Just a thought.

Reu

[Reuban]

Happy holidays to everyone.

I will be off from work and visiting various parents (mine and the wife's) until Wed. 12/28. I will be hit or miss as far as internet access (The dreaded dial-up) so I maybe unable to post until next week.

Have a safe holidays all.

Reu

[My Fellow Gamers]

updated my round 7 actions.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!!!!

[Black Plauge]

Merry Christmas.

Now, since I seem to have lost my previous response to Aethyc's question, let me try again.

There are four reasons that I introduced the concept of racial hit dice for all races:

1) This gives me a mechaninc to work with for children. There are some other details to work out, and its not something that will ever be important to the players (unless you start slughtering children or recuiting a child army), but the detail oriented side of me likes to have everything covered.

2) It promotes racial diversity. I wanted the population of Dünya to be a real hodge-podge of different races (or didn't you notice that when you looked at the map), but at the same time I didn't want any race to be particularly powerful compared to another. I was thus left with two options: bring every race down to 0th level, or bring the 0th level races up some. Since it is very difficult to bring the higher ECL races all the way down to ECL 0 while still maintaining their flavor, I decided that it would be easier to bring the ECL 0 races up, especially once I found the racial paragons in Arcana Unearthed (which did much of the work for me).

3) It levels the playing field for spellcasters. Due to the exponential nature of spell power, spell progression is essential for any caster. As a result, characters that are full casters rarely use a race that has any LA or racial HD. By putting every race (or at least most of them) on the same footing in terms of ECL prior to taking class levels, you're far more likely to see things like Lizardfolk wizards or Minotaur clerics.

4) It gives every one a base on which to create their background. With racial skills, players are more likely to have a couple of skill points in stuff like Profession (farmer) or other skills that are appropriate to their background, but for which they don't normally have the skill points to spend on. With racial hp characters won't die if sneezed on. At the same time, I still get to run the game from 1st level, so players still get the full experience of developing their characters from scratch (something games which start at higher level don't have).


Also, I'm still waiting to here from Van and Jop about how they want to handle the remainder of the kobold encounter. Like I said, if you guys are simply going to depart, I'll break combat posting restrictions (though I'll still resolve Manweh'mato's parting attacks) since you can easily out run the kobolds. If you want to continue the fight, however, I'll keep things in combat rounds.

Finally, Jop, do you have everything from Conlee's Skasa thread? If so, I'll delete the old thread so that it doesn't clutter up the forum.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Guys? Combat? Hello? Anybody with me? Manweh'mato cant take all these kobolds by himself simply because he does not have enough arrows.

[Black Plauge]

The holidays always seem to slow things down. The travel and visitors that come along with them are highly distracting.

[Reuban]

Yea, all those pesky people and presents get in the way =). I am back from my holiday hiatus. I will hopefully be finishing up my character sheet this week.

[Vaniver]

Arg, I haven't been checking this thread, so I need to go back about 4 pages to catch up :P I'd comment on the racial suggestions, but I have a load of calculus I'm trying to slog through as well as work on D&D stuff of my own.

Soltlak wants to get out of there, after the beating he took at the hands of the kobolds.

[My Fellow Gamers]

Jop updated his round 7 actions as well. Bottom line, I am trying to kill the mounted kobold before fleeing.

[Black Plauge]

Well, the delay is enough for the second group of kobolds to come into play. Combat rounds will remain in effect for the moment. MFG, I'll give you a chance to revise your actions based on this fact, and the positions of the new kobolds in the picture.

Jop should also revise his actions, if he so desires. He also might want to check on his character's name again.;)

[My Fellow Gamers]

I do not wish to change my actions for round 7.

[Jop]

Sorry about the naming thing... Hahaha...
I have to wait for an answer to my question before I know what to do... So my round 7 actions remain as is.

[My Fellow Gamers]

"So are we staying or what ???"if that is the question, I answered it in the combat thread. If not, I have no idea what Jop is talking about.

[Black Plauge]

Speaking can be done out of turn (so long as its short) so I'll let Skasa act after Manweh'mato's answer.

[Jop]

Actions have been updated for round 7.

[Black Plauge]

Soltlak has now been delaying for a full round, and both halflings still haven't caught up to him (Manweh'mato's lagging behind). Van, do you want to change actions or continue to wait?

[My Fellow Gamers]

next round (eight), Manweh'mato will use the run action to flee.

Vaniver updated his actions.

[Black Plauge]

You guys running now?

[My Fellow Gamers]

as soon as it is my turn to, yes I am running.

[My Fellow Gamers]

When you guys get a chance, re-read the entire fight text version. It is pretty cool. Nice job MR. DM!

[Reuban]

BP, Siad is ready to go if you want to look him over.

Reu

[Jop]

Yup. I'll run as well. Round 8 Actions updated.
And go ahead and delete the "other" Skasa. I've got everything in my thread.

[Black Plauge]

Reuban, you'll need to specify where your Knowledge (local) is.

[Black Plauge]

Okay folks, Combat rounds have been terminated. Between the croc battle earlier and the kobold fight here, Soltlak, Skasa, and Manweh'mato have each earned 600 XP.

[Reuban]

I figured my knowledge would be from the human area where I grew up. Do I need more specifics than that?

[Black Plauge]

No, but if you'd note that on your sheet so that we don't forget later.

[Reuban]

Done

[Black Plauge]

Ah, just noticed something on the new character's sheets. The languages are off. Of course, that's probably because I don't have the modified language rules posted anywhere.

Which reminds me, I've been working on an additional reworking:

0 - Doesn't know the language: Fairly self explanitory. All non-native languages start out at this level for all characters. Skill checks or abilites which are language dependant are impossible (in both directions) for the character in a language at this level.
1 - Phrase Book knowledge: The character knows a few phrases in the language, such as how to order dinner or ask for a room, but does not actually understand the language. Skill checks or abilities which are language dependant are impossible for the character (in both directions) except for very simple phrases that the character already knows.
2 - Passable: The character has a rudimentary understanding of the language and a decent vocabulary. As a result they can make themselves understood in most situations. However, when time is at issue, or the task is difficult (such as one requiring a skill check) the character has only a 50% chance of understanding or making themselves understood properly. This percent chance is rolled before any check and if it fails, does not prevent the character from trying again, even with a skill that wouldn't allow retries.
3 - Fluent: The character speaks the language perfectly. Language dependant effects, skill checks, and abilities work normally for (and on) this character.
4+ - Eloquent: The character has mastered the subtle intricasies of the language to the point that in certian situations he's more effective than normal. Choose a skill which can be used in conjunction with this language (such as Diplomacy or Bluff). For every point above 3 that you invest in the language, you gain a bonus to the choosen skill equal to the number of points invested, but only when using this language with that skill. This bonus can be split between multiple skills if desired, but the choice must be made when the language points are invested and cannot be later changed. For example, if you have 6 points in Elven, you are entitled to a +3 bonus to one skill, a +2 bonus to one skill and a +1 bonus to another, or a +1 bonus to three skills, but only when speaking Elven.
You may also use these points to increase the DC of language-dependant effects or spells. You still must choose one ability or spell to benefit, and in these cases, however, the DC increases by 1 for every two points invested. You can also divide the bonus between multiple language-dependant effects or spells, or with the skill bonuses.

Example: Gimble, the gnomish bard has 10 language points invested in Gnome (3 for free since its his racial language, 2 from a high Int, and 5 from skill points). This entitles him to 7 points of bonuses. He's decided to split this up and has a +1 save DC bonus to suggestion (2 points), a +1 save DC bonus to entrall (2 points), a +2 bonus to diplomacy (2 points), and a +1 bonus to sense motive (1 point). All of these bonuses only work when Gimble is using these abilities in gnomish (speaking in the case of the first 3, listening in the case of the last one).

Languages that a race or class gains automatically are set at the fluent (3 point) level.

Bonus Languages for high Int: When creating a character with an above average Int score, the chracter gains a number of language points equal to twice their Int bonus which can be invested into the languages listed as bonus languages for their race (and only those languages).

Speak Language: When a character invests skill points in this skill they gain a number of language points equal to the number of ranks they have times 2 (i.e. cross class skill points net 1 language point and class skill points net 2 language points). These language points can then be invested in any one language or split between multiple languages to learn them or improve one's proficency with them.

Its a little different from what th current characters used, but I believe that it can be applied retroactively to Soltlak, Skasa, and Manweh'mato without a problem.

[Reuban]

My languages have been updated.

Reu

[Aethyc]

Updated my language skills as well

[Vaniver]

Looks alright. I'll try to tone down Soltlak's Deepling.

[edit]I just realized that one skill point gave you two language points rather than just one. That removes the majority of my complaints.

My previous worry is that it's a bit too expensive. In normal 3.5 a wizard, bard, or rogue could dump a level or so of skill points into becoming a polyglot, something that was barely useful: if you really needed to talk with someone, they would probably be able to talk with you with Common, and only rarely did you come into contact with a person that you needed a language to converse with. In Dunya, there is no Common, so probably >90% of the people you meet do not speak your native tongue. To buy items, to receive quest information, to meaningfully interact with NPCs- all either impossible or very hard without a significant skill investment.

That said, I like the idea of eloquence. It has the feel of a carrot rather than a stick- it's good to invest in languages, not it's bad if you don't. Its power level is very hard to judge. It allows you to reach higher levels of social skills (not a hard feat previously), but it seems too specialized to be useful. I can take a skill point I would have spent somewhere else (generally, you can't have too many skill points, especially if just becoming fluent is so expensive) and increase two social skill in one language. I can get another +2 to diplomacy... when talking to gnomes. If the DM decides that we're heading off to Dwarven lands, those points are wasted, and I quickly start wishing I had stuck them in Dwarven. When we move to the Lizardmen lands, the points are wasted again. In contrast, the normal points I put into diplomacy are always useful (well, assuming I'm fluent), as well as the normal points I put into non-social skills (you don't need to speak lizardman to Spot the ambush waiting for you).

What I would suggest is only 2 language points for fluency. A mobile campaign demands that the players know a large number of languages, and making them spend their skills on languages rather than useful skills hurts them. It also hurts the quality of roleplaying- Soltlak might think "I will watch before the dawn" in Draconic, but he certainly wouldn't know how to say it in Deepling. If you're looking for any sort of poetic writing (not that I consider Soltlak's last thought that, but it's slightly more poetic that just taking the last watch), it seems to me that crippling the players linguistically will hurt that, unless dialogue consisting of "Us go" is appealing.

For eloquence, I would have each additional language point in the language boost each social skill by 1/2. That seems to me to be a more economical way to spend skill points- one point will give me a conditional point in 7 skills, rather than a conditional point in 2 skills or 2 conditional points in one skill.

The balance of this system really depends on how mobile the campaign is and how diverse the areas are. If in one region everyone speaks Elf (the regions that we have been in suggest that regions like that will be the rarity rather than the norm), then being incredibly eloquent in Elf would give you a rather large social benefit. But as soon as you talk to anyone who doesn't know Elf, that benefit is gone. That level of DM control seems to make it hard to abuse, but it also makes it rather hard to balance.

[second edit (well, it's actually the fourth, but who's counting)]- I think I'm still having problems with the reasons behind a world without common (and since the world I'm designing doesn't have a common language yet, I want to chew this pretty thoroughly before I digest it). It makes it bad to not know many languages, rather than making it good to know many languages (knowing the languages just becomes not bad). While a much more realistic system, I see it as hurting gameplay... it penalizes low int / combat-heavy characters in the social sphere, which although it seems to make it more 'balanced' also seems to make the specializations more segregated- the bard feels nearly useless in combat, and the fighter feels nearly useless talking with NPCs- for a portion of your game a few of your players will be uninterested in what is going on.

[My Fellow Gamers]

ready to be pushed along.....

[Black Plauge]

Will be updating shortly. Just have to check the dice to see if there are any more random encounters before you catch up with the caravan.

To answer Van's questions. It costs the same amount to reach the passable level as the standard D&D system costs to gain full fluency. 9 times out of 10, passable is all you need, since there is no penalty if you fail to make your self understood (other than the lost time). The only time where it becomes an issue is with language-dependant spells (where a failure would mean that the spell fails) and there the knife cuts both way (the character with a passable grasp of the language is 50% likely to be immune to the spell, as well as having a 50% chance of their own such spells failing). With skills, you can just try again.

As for the lack of a common tongue, look at our own world cicara 1800 (which is approximately where the tech level is supposed to be on Dünya). There was no common language. If you went somewhere outside of your own country you either found some one to act as interpreter, or you learned the language yourself. That's the kind of enviroment I trying to shoot for. Now, in our own world, there was a large degree of colonialism so that many regions were slightly more accesscible to those speaking a language native to a colonial power (French, English, Dutch, Protugese, and Spanish mostly). In Dünya, the presense of magic makes it far harder for races with a sophisticated level of technology (like humans with their ships) to over run a native race, who will be just as sophisticated in magic as their would be opressers. As a result, instead of a few technologically advanced races dominating the world (the way the Europeans did on Earth), those that have the technology to travel the world are forced into partnerships with the native populations. The result is the highly diverse trading ports where multiple languages and multiple races come together. In the more isolated parts of a racial region, it won't be uncommon to find individuals who speak only their native language.

Note: I would consider "I will watch before the dawn" as something that can easily be communicated with a passable rating. Your character might not end up using those exact words, or might use present rather than future tense, but I'm not going to interfere with that unless there's a time crunch (like combat) that forces the character to speak quickly. "Us go," would be more characteristic of a phrasebook level of understanding.

Thus far, you guys have only had one real encounter that was outside of a major trading port, the one you just finished with the kobolds. Not that it made a difference, but those kobolds were highly isolationist, and spoke only Draconic. Now, since Kobolds and Lizardfolk share draconic as a native language, there was no communication barrier between the Kobolds and you guys. Had you been in the middle of say elf lands then that would have been a different story.

As for DM control, I'll admit that to some extent I can influence the locale of the story and thus the language that you'll benefit the most from knowing. However, ultimately, you guys have final control over any decisions your character makes. It was you guys that decided to travel across the sea with Marco and then strike out after the Manead rather than seek other possibilities in an area where you'd be more likely to be able to communicate. I've presented you with two other hooks so far for adventures that you decided not to follow (the murders in Kent Lima and the ship captian's offer that you stay aboard and work for her). I have not made you subject to any telepoartation traps that forced you into an area where you didn't speak the language.

Oh, and as I see it the following skills are the ones that can be modified by eloquence: Bluff, Decipher Script, Forgery (when creating a document from scratch, not duplicating one), Gather Information, Intimidate, Listen (when trying to overhear a conversation), Perform (for things like oratory or singing, which involve language), Sense Motive, and Spot (when trying to read lips). That's 7 skills (possibly more, depending on performance modes chosen) which are always modified (when using the language), and 3 more that are conditionally modified by eloquence. I'm not comfortable with the skill bonus being across the board in that many skills.

[Jop]

BP: I would of asked Soltak if he needed some healing before we head off that morning. If he does, I would of spent 1 cure light and 1 minor (although I could spend them all, knowing that nothing happened that day... but that would be wrong!).

[Black Plauge]

I believe Soltlak's hp and rp reflect the use of the two cure minors that were left over yesterday and he's at full for them now (I forgot to note it IC, however). He still has 1 point of Con damage, but that'll cost you a restoration to fix, not a cure spell. Besides, another night's rest will heal it naturally.

Check the combat thread for everybody's current health status. Your mounts are the ones who could use some healing. You pushed them fairly hard yesterday, and they've taken some damage from it. Also Meat still has lingering Con damage from the croc incident. Let me know how you want to partition out what you've got and I'll make the necessary adjustments.

[Black Plauge]

I just added the gnomes, orcs, ogres, and grimlocks to the races thread. Please check them over to make sure I didn't make any mistakes and to double check the balance of the orcs, ogres, and grimlocks.

Also, MFG and Reuban both get 100 XP for doing an additional racial write up.

[Black Plauge]

Reuban and Aethyc, your characters have been introduced. If you want, you may start posting IC.

MFG, the dice really didn't like you this time. I was sure that you'd succeed at either the Gather Info check or be 10 over the Listen check given that the DCs weren't all that difficult.

[Jop]

I'm not sure of what I have left based on your explanation.
I think, I would be at full spells by what you've said.
But I'll wait until we get inside the city walls to spend them on the mounts... Just in case.

[Black Plauge]

Unless you decide to have cast spells on the mounts this morning, you have a full repitoire of spells.

[Aethyc]

Just wondering, what language is pink? could this be added to technical stuff (I'm assuming the language is human or at least a language that Sara knows well enough for my post). Also, what is the easiest way to get the different pronunciation marks for the letters? so far I've just been copying and pasting from other posts

[Black Plauge]

The color is orchid, and it represents Draconic. I believe that's already stated in the Technical stuff thread.

For the füñkÿ ãççèñts, the easiest way to get them is to switch your keyboard layout from English (United States) to United States-International. This doesn't actually change the position of any characters, but accenting characters (", ', `, ~, and ^) do not appear immediately. Instead, they are delayed to see if the next character is an accentable character. If it is, then the accent is applied. If it isn't, then the accenting character and the next character appear. This feature is overriden by pressing space bar immediately after the accenting character (i.e. space is considered an accentable character that accepts all accents). E.g. pressing "~n" on a United States-Internation keyboard results in "ñ" while "~b" results in "~b" (as b cannot be accented by a tilda), to get "~n" you have to type "~ n". Oh, and the c-cédille ("ç") is obtained by "'c" (apostraphe c).

If you don't want to mess with your keyboard layout (I'm bilingual in French so I need the accents more often than just in this game), then the attached list of Alt-number codes will be very useful. Every character in the ASCII set can be accessed via pressing, and holding, the Alt key while typing in the cooresponding number on the numeric keypad (with Num Lock on). If you're working on a laptop (as I do) then then numeric keypad is generally activated by pressing the Fn key (hence the file name). E.g. à is generated by Alt + 133 while é is generated by Alt + 130.

Note: Both tricks cannot be used simultaneously. I.e. the Alt + number codes do not work on a United States-International keyboard.

[Black Plauge]

Doh! Just checked the Techincal thread myself and the color was supposed to be Dark Orchid, not orchid. Fixed that IC.

Must remember to double check colors when posting.

[Jop]

Hey... that makes at least 3 of us that are bilingual...
C'est cool ca!

[My Fellow Gamers]

I have been known to roll poorly so that is nothing new when others roll for me as well.

On a different note, welcome to the other players!

[Black Plauge]

Just wanted to clarify something for Aethyc and Reuban. The rooms are barraks style, with multiple beds in the same room (each having a trunk at its foot). Sara and Said don't have private rooms (unless you want to pay for them yourself).

Just wanted to make that clear given the phrasing Aethyc used when posting ("her room").

[Aethyc]

I figured it was something like that, and "her room" refers to the room she is staying in; not paying extra for a private room

Edit: I'm amazed they have an entire barracks for women... must be the homebrew setting LOL I almost expected a curtain or less

[Black Plauge]

Okay, just wanted to be clear.

[Reuban]

Sorry about the small delay, I had two Wisdom teeth yanked out yesterday, so I was out of commission most of yesterday and today =)

Reu