Deadwatch Embers - OOC Thread

[Cadrius]

If you don't know what this thread is for, I'll boot you from the game.

[Gralhruk]

This is where we make fun of Itches, right?

[Cadrius]

Exactly.

On another note, it seems the description I set for the game was a wee bit too long. That's a shame, I was trying to make it suitably moving.

[Gralhruk]

Let's hope our careers are not cut as short as that description.

[Cadogan Trahem]

If you can provde a new description, I will edit it.

[Gralhruk]

Cadrius, if it's okay with you I'd rather not post my background publicly.

[Cadrius]

If you'd rather remain more enigmatic, that's fine. Just be sure that I get all the details before we start playing.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Traitor to the Shadow! GET HER! :fun:

Cadrius, I do not mean to impose on you, but I was wondering if you would allow non Fighters to take Weapon Specialization. If not, can you take a look at this thread and tell me what you think? http://www.againsttheshadow.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=359

[Gralhruk]

That's right: I'm an enigma to all who don't know me.

I'll make sure you have a copy.

Why do I feel like there is a disclaimer at the bottom of your post:
Anything you write can and will be used against you . . . ;)

[Cadrius]

Pull, Fighters are a class I've been mulling over since I first picked up Midnight. They are easily the worst off out of all of the classes. The Wildlanders and Defenders can fight almost as well plus they have their own benefits. The fighter can only do one thing: kill. As a result I've been toying with upping their skill points and adding a class skill or two to make them seem more viable. However, one must becareful not to go overboard here. First and foremost, fighters are supposed to fight, giving them a horde of support skills devalues the other classes a bit. Still, expect to see something of a house rule regarding this before we start.

That said I'm loathe to diminish anything about the already difficult to play class. I'm going to say that weapon specialization reflects an incredible degree of training, one that simply isn't possible to learn without dedicating such a large chunk of time to the study of combat. No other class really does that, not to the extent that the fighter does.

Does that seem like a contradiction? What I want to do is keep fighters doing what they do best, but give them an option for survival in populated areas.

On a side note, I've noticed the characters are shaping up to be generally dislikable. That's fine by me as long as you play it properly and accept the consequences.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Thanks for the response. I realize it is easy to go overboard and make the Fighter class better than it should be. I understand your ruling on Weapon Specializiation, and have no problem with it. As for the low Charisma, yes, I do plan on fully roleplaying that and accepting the consequences.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Just to make sure we are on the same wavelength as far as Charisma goes, my outline of how I view the statistic is below.

It is my understanding that a low Charisma is personal presence and power, not just charm. People with high Charisma have a palpable aura of strength about them, and even if you despise them you still feel compelled to respect them. I think it is completely possible to be abrasive, yet still maintain a high Charisma. Winston Churchill is a good example of this.

Low Charisma characters, meanwhile, are introverted and seem to have little outward strength. They are likely to be ignored and forgotten, while they keep to themselves. Isolationist, taciturn, and unwilling to take a leadership position, such characters should be reactive, not proactive, in their interaction with others.

To me, for the mental statistics, Wisdom is inner strength, while Charisma is outer strength. Would this point of view be accurate and in key with the way you run Charisma in your world?

[Black Plauge]

Well, so far, only two characters have posted stats. Both of these have a 8 CHA but one is a Dwarf so his 8 is quite normal for his race. The other is a human, so that might be slightly unlikable.

As for the other characters, one is a Charismatic tradition channeler, one is mentioned as having a "silver tounge," and one (mine) is supposed to be paladinic. If those are any indication those three characters should have above average CHA scores.

That leaves two more who we don't know about yet. Still, I'd say that as a group we won't be totally unlikable.:cool:

[Cadrius]

Charisma is, in my opinion, the most intangible stat out of the six. Because of this it grants people a wide variety of options when it comes to portraying this. It can involve physical attractiveness, general likability, force of character, etc. You can incorporate any number of things to represent the charisma.

I think your assessment is fair, although I imagine there are instances where charisma could be argued as inner strength. Perhaps not in the way that Wisdom works, but certainly in some capacity.

Edit: BP. I do recall a couple characters that are favoring Charisma, I simply wanted to make clear that people might react accordingly. As charming as the halfling and channeler might be, the dwarf and wildlander might put people a bit off. Hell, the dwarf will do that anyway regardless of how friendly he is.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

The reason I view Charisma that way is, it eliminates characters with low Charisma scores assuming leadership positions, unless forced to. I have seen far too many games where the ugly, dislikable character ends up the party leader, despite the fact his Charisma is too low for that to be feasible. A low Charisma, to me, precludes being a leader just as much as having a low Intelligence precludes a character from being a tactician.

[Cadrius]

While they might not make good, even-handed leaders, I wouldn't say that they wouldn't want it. We all have hobbies or know someone who practices something that they're not naturally skilled at. An ugly, mean, shy person will not make a good leader, but that doesn't mean they couldn't want the power or the position. So if that character grabs the reigns of command the party will have to deal with the lack of social graces, weird stares, or uncomfortable silences as he deals with NPCs.

Moreover, simply because a character is charismatic doesn't mean they want to be a leader, they just happen to be good at it.

I wouldn't deny someone the opportunity to roleplay a bad leader if they wanted to, nor would I do so with a dumb tactician. As long as they impose limits upon their character's actions; saying offense things, coming up with bad strategies, etc.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Actually, you are right. And that does sound fair.

[Maeko]

Hi everybody! glad I made it, thanks Cadrius.
Just one question: about elves the pdf says: 'proficient with elven exotic weapons as if they were martial weapons', which weapons are those?

Thanks for your concern Gral; we in the North got off lightly, just without power from 3,30 am to 7,30 am. only problem was my server started working again today.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

The Elven Exotic weapons are the following:

The size of both weapons is Tiny.

Fighting knife 3 GP 1d6 20x2 2lb. Slashing
Sepi 3 GP 1d4 19-20x3 2 lb. Slashing


The fighting knives are the favored melee weapons of the Erunsil, or Snow Elves. Any Snow Elf wielding fighting knives in their traditional two weapon style recieves a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls.

The Sepi are the favored weapons of the Danisil, or Jungle Elves. Any Jungle Elf wielding Sepi in their traditional two weapon style recieves a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls.

[Maeko]

Nothing 'trademark' for the Caransil then. Thanks PullOfTheSpirit
:)

[Cadrius]

Nope, the Wood Elves don't have the fancy special weapons. Even in Against the Shadow the only new elven exotic weapons are for the other subraces (particularly the Snow Elves).

[Black Plauge]

I'm getting there with my character sheet. Just equipment to work out now.

Oh, are there any halfling weapons I should be aware of?

[Cadrius]

Exotic Weapon. Lance, Halfling. Medium Size. 1d6 x3, 5lb. Piercing. 12 GP.

It has to be used in two hands unless it's specially attached to a wogren saddle. In which case the rider can use it one-handed and can add his strength bonus or one half the wogren's bonus to attack and damage. Attaching and detaching are full round actions that provoke attacks of opportunity.

Nomadic halfings may use the lances as martial weapons.

[Dirigible]

Cadrius;

Can I get a yea or nay on Luck of Heroes? I took if for the same reason as Toughness; Lyr's a survivor, due to his maltreatment by his adopted father Pitas. I could change the name if that's all it takes :).

[Cadrius]

Luck of Heroes is fine with me. If you'd like to change the name to something a little more suitable, well, that'd be a welcome alteration.

[Dirigible]

Hows about dropping proficiency in light and heavy crossbows in exchange for slings?

I figure a channeler with minimal peasent-esque martial skill is more likely to be able to use a simple, rock-chukka rather than a mechanical weapon.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Well, assuming Maeko gets his character up today, we should be able to start by tomorrow. I am looking forward to it.

[itches]

*whispers*
Maeko is a her

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Female? Does not compute. Does not compute. *BZZZT.* Anyway, like I was saying, he should get his char up sometime today and once that happens, game on!

[Black Plauge]

That weapon sounds like something my character would use, so I'll put it on the character sheet.

However, I may decide when I work out the rest of the equipment to roleplay its aquisition out in game, especially since it'll be rare that Heulwen is mounted until level 2.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Looking over the character sheets, it seems everyone except me is primarily a ranged combatant. On the one hand, most of the Orcs will be dead by the time they enter my range. On the other hand, I will probably be unsupported in melee combat most of the time. I can feel the flanking pain already. Perhaps my AC is still not high enough. :fun:

A nice setup nonetheless, and as long as the party is on the offensive, we should be fairly unstoppable. On the other hand, if we get ambushed, we could be in trouble. It should be interesting to see how it plays out.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

How strange. It seems the vB code is not working for me right now. I have checked my options and it is enabled. Did I input the code wrong?

[Gralhruk]

The code looks okay. Not sure what it could be.

As far as combat, I don't even think Aleina is going to carry a weapon :?.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Typical. Cadrius, I vote that to encourage weapon use among the Channeler class, they be given free profiency with Sword-Chucks.

[Cadogan Trahem]

Fixed

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Thanks.

[Gralhruk]

Who was that masked admin?

Yes, give her sword-chucks and let's see how long it takes her to chop her own head off :).

[Cadrius]

Dirigible, if you want to swap crossbow for sling proficiency, that's fine with me.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Berova:

Not to pick apart your character, but fluency in High Elven costs two ranks because of its complexity, and Erenlanders do not have Traders Tongue as an automatic language.

[Black Plauge]

Equipment questions:

What's the cost and weight on the diffrent varieties of a Wogren Saddle (Pack, Riding, and Military)?

What season are we starting in?

The iron pot listed in the SRD is only listed in one size (a gallon) would it be possible to aquire a smaller one that weighs less, say a half gallon pot that weighs 5 lbs. instead of 10?

Thread (for sewing and for use as fishing line) isn't listed in the SRD, I assume it has no weight worth noting, but how much do you want it to cost?

Should I assume that Bee's Wax (used in leatherworking to lubricate thread and seal seams) has the same cost per quantity as Sealing Wax, or is it cheaper (due to lack of coloring)?

Can I get an Animal Signal Whistle (i.e. one pitched above the hearing range for huminoids) for the same price as the normal Signal Whistle?

Do all these questions help rebuild the "fragile DM Power Trip that [you] depend on so dearly?"

[Gralhruk]

Do all these questions help rebuild the "fragile DM Power Trip that [you] depend on so dearly?"
I'm guessing that smiting the PCs of players that ask smartass questions will go a lot further in that regard.

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/cwm/3dlil/eek13.gif

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I am not the DM, but I do know that you use the Exotic Saddle costs for the Wogrens equipment.

[Berova]

Thanks Pull!

I'll have my skills fixed and equipment list compiled by tonight after I get home from work.

[Black Plauge]

I was just trying to help.:∙

He did after all tell me that I shouldn't "tell [him] what to do.":nervous:

[Gralhruk]

Just kidding of course :).

I'm curious about the bee's wax myself.

I also have a question on the feat "Charm Lore" from Against the Shadow. It says it lets you create charms, but the core setting rules say all you need to create charms is a few knowledge skills and a craft skill. Does the feat just let you bypass the skill requirements?

[Cadrius]

As was I, kidding that is. Or was I...

Wogren saddle. I'd rule to be exotic due to the fact that it's mounted on a freaky wolf-dog.

Season: Late summer, early Autumn.

Yes you can get a smaller one, it's foolish to expect all pots to come in the same size

Hmm, I dislike slapping a price on an item simply because it feels so arbitrary. Yet if I had to I'd say you could have a spool for about 1 GP.

Wax, 7 SP.

Signal Whistle, it might be a little more rare, let's call it a GP.

Do all these questions help rebuild the "fragile DM Power Trip that [you] depend on so dearly?"

Yes, yes they do.

[Maeko]

Pull, Maeko is an 'her' indeed, sorry if that plays havoc with your circuitry ;)

My character is up, BTW, care to have a look?

[Cadrius]

Had one and responded.

Edit: Gral, after looking it over I would say that it removes the requisite knowledge ranks for the chosen charms. You didn't learn through trial and error, but instead from your family (or whatever vehicle you choose that granted the prior knowledge). So you get one charm per level but if you want a new one, you'll need to do it like everyone else.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

So. Seeing that I will be mostly alone in melee combat, I have hit upon a plan. It involves stepping back next to my allies and this feat:

Redirect Attacks:

Source: EVIL, from AEG.

Prerequisities: Dodge


When someone attacks you, you may bump an ally within 5 feet and give the opponent a +2 to hit that ally, and a -2 to hit you. The opponent then gets to choose which person to attack. The ally figures out what you are doing on an INT check of DC 20, and probably won't be happy that you set them up.


Would this feat be allowed? Even Feyd only has a 20% chance to figure out what I am doing, and you have to look out for number one, after all. :evil:

[Cadrius]

Hmm, let me think about that one...

In other news I've set up another house rule in the Harsh Edicts forum. It's nothing drastic, but I figured everyone should be forewarned.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

As fun as the feat is, it is a surefire way to civil war between PCs. Still, it is tempting.

Edit:

As the name of the sourcebook implies, the feat is meant for Evil characters as well. I originally meant my post as a joke, but I have to admit the Dark Side calls to me. The feat is just so unique. Heh.

[Maeko]

Equipment is up.

[Cadrius]

I'd actually take it one step further.

Name: Selfish Deflection
Prerequisites: Dodge, Dex 13+
Benefit: Whenever an opponent that you have assigned your dodge bonus to attack you and misses, you may force him to immediately make another attack roll against one of your adjacent allies. The attack is made with the same bonuses as the initial attack.
Normal: You have to take it, you prick.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Originally posted by Cadrius

Normal: You have to take it, you prick.

ROFL!

[Gralhruk]

Just as an FYI, I'm getting close to completing my character sheet. I need to finalize equipment and spell selection (and also pick a feat), but it's getting there.

Cadrius, my background is just about done. I'll send it over to you as soon as it is complete.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Eyes Of Fury or Improved Initiative for a feat choice would be my recommendations, if you are taking them.

[Gralhruk]

I'm considering Improved Initiative, along with Inconspicous and Silent Spell.

What is Eyes of Fury?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Eyes Of Fury:

Source: Kingdoms Of Kalamar.

Prerequisites: Charisma 13+

As a free action against one opponent each round, you may make an extraordinary gaze attack. They make a Will save DC 10+ your CHA bonus or become shaken for one round.


Nice feat. It may seem overpowered, but it actually has limited use. At higher levels it does not do much. I found a huge PDF listing a great deal of feats recently, and it is really helpful. Free tip, ignore all feats from Swashbuckling Adventures. Anyway, here is the link: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/d20feats.pdf

[Gralhruk]

That is pretty cool. What does "shaken" entail?

Also, anybody have any thoughts on how useful "Natural Healer" is? I'm thinking it will help out considerably but this will be my first Midnight game so . . . would something like "Silent Spell" be better?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Shaken: A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

Natural Healer is very nice. Still, Silent Spell is also great. Both have distinct advantages, and it depends on whether or not you think it is more important to be able to avoid long downtimes, or avoid detection when using your spells.

[Gralhruk]

Hrrrm. I think I go with both, and save Eyes of Fire for a later date.

[Dirigible]

Oh great. Now we can't rust the charismatic chenneler OR the dwarf.

[Gralhruk]

Actually, there isn't anything terribly secretive about my background. I just prefer that the other characters learn it in game.

[Cadrius]

Moreover, I'd like want to tweak the feat slightly if I were to let it in the campaign. It's an interesting one but doesn't quite feel right.

Natural Healer is really quite useful if the party has been mauled. Recovering at three times the rate could prove useful, plus you can get those that have slipped into the negatives back and on their feat (albeit a bit woozy).

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Just one more character to go and its clobberin time. Hurrah!

[Gralhruk]

plus you can get those that have slipped into the negatives back and on their feat
Exactly. I'm thinking there will be many a situation where we'll need to get the hell out of dodge, and carrying our near dead companions will make things difficult.

Another question, and one that figures heavily into my equipment.

Herbalism. Okay, here is the list of stuff I think I need to make the various herbal remedies:

Olive or Fish oil [no idea about cost]
Opaque container to steep them in (PHB clay jugs should suffice)
Containers to carry completed infused oils (PHB ceramic flasks, most likely)
Honey and/or sugar (not sure about cost of these)
Scale (merchant scale per phb)
Measuring cups (not sure on cost or weight)
Cinammon sticks (cinammon from PHB)
Bee's Wax (answered)
Various alcohols (wine?)
Heat source. I'm thinking some sort of oil lamp, like they would use to heat sealing wax. (no idea on cost or weight).


On top of that, Infused Oils mention eight ounce doses. Is that the amount you need to consume per day? That seems like quite a bit.

[Dirigible]

Am I right in thinking that it costs 2 skp to achieve normal fluency in a language? I know it takes 1 rank to learn it, but as it cross class for all classes save bard...

By my count,

1 skp = pidgen
2 skp = fluency
4 skp = literate

[Gralhruk]

Gah, that seems harsh. The Midnight CS says 1 point for fluency, but doesn't mention the class skill / cross class skill thing.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I do not think so. I think you achieve full fluency with only one skill rank. The Midnight campaign book specifically mentions that Pidgins of a language are special cases, and in paragraphs describing languages, most specify it only costs one skill rank to learn.

[Gralhruk]

It seemed to me that the only time you really learn a pidgin is with your bonus languages - that is, you can learn two pidgins for the cost of one bonus language. Once you start spending skill points, it pretty much would cost you 1 rank to learn a pidgin - but fluency is also only one rank, so learning a pidgin doesn't make sense.

Unless you use Dirigible's method.

[Dirigible]

Heaven forbid!

So, the correct costs are

Pidgen = 1/2 skp
Fluent = 1 skp
Literate = 2 skp

?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

It makes sense to me to remove the cross class penalty for the Speak Language skill in a world that both lacks Bards and a language akin to Common.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

No, that is the strange thing. You can speak two Pidgins for every bonus point of Intelligence, but you must spend a full skill point to attain a Pidgin. Which almost no one will ever do, since it costs the same to buy full fluency in most languages.

[Black Plauge]

So pidgins are meant as starting languages only. Makes sense to me. Pidgins aren't really languages, more a blending of others to make communication between diffrent cultures possible. There generally created/adapted by children who grow up in a mixed culture enviroment.

Or at least that's how I've always understood them.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

By the way, Cadrius, I was wondering how you handle alignment. Given the nature of the setting, it will obviously play an important factor, particularly when encountering Legates or other such servants of Izrador.

How exactly do you define the varying alignments along the axis, and should I be aware of any actions that might shift my alignment to Evil? As an example, the Midnight campaign book mentions Dwarves practicing torture, and gladiatoral combats against prisoners of war. Would you consider that Evil?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Man. I was just reading a few rules threads over at ENWorld, and it really seems as if 3.5 is getting too miniatures intensive. According to the latest errata, you can no longer Overrun as part of a Charge. This, coupled with the fact that you can only Charge in a straight line, means that if any ally is in your path, you cannot Charge a target along that same line.

Previously, you could use the Overrun action in conjuction with your ally using the automatic avoid action to allow the Charge. Now, that is gone, which means you need to be fully aware of every allies position on the battlemap. Not only does this change create that problem, but it is also creating other problems throughout the system. Like, how does the Trample feat work now?

Of course, this change, and a few others, were recieved negatively for the above reasons. Cadrius, I know we are playing under 3.5, but I trust you will be house ruling insanity like the above?

PS

By the way, I do not mean to be such a high maintenance player. I know I am asking about a great deal of information from a rules standpoint, and I will take it down a notch if it is a problem. My apologies if this is irritating to you.

[Black Plauge]

One never had to use the Overrun action to get by an ally. You can always move through an occupied square if the person lets you. Its ussually assumed that an ally will let you through your square, but an opponent may choose not to.

As for them prohibiting an Overrun as part of a charge, I think that's kind of foolish. The whole point of the Overrun action originally was to enable characters to charge through a line of defenders to reach some one in the back. In fact, in 3.0 you had to be charging to make an overrun attempt.

What say you Cadrius? What'll it be for us?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Yes, Black Plauge, and that is part of the Overrun action. Automatically letting someone pass through your square is covered by the Overrun action. With the new ruling, you are no longer allowed to do so.

[Swashbuckler]

Gang:

Sorry I have not been a part of the vast and rich conversations that have been sprawling out over this thread before now. Wow. Y'all talk too much! :D

Anyhow, with regard to 3.0, 3.5, or even the new 'errata' (why would you errata something your just released not even 2 months' previous?) -- the beauty of this game is that the DM is always the final arbiter of what is 'rule' and what is 'guideline'. So if Cadrius wants to play that the Overrun feat can no longer be used in conjunction with a Charge, that's his perogative. If he feels, like some of us do, that WotC can shove their miniature-loving rules and errata, then more power to him. :D

'Nuff said on that. :? I'm finishing up my character stats tonight, so have a look-see after about 10pm CST.

And about my low charisma score … how personable would you be if your family and everything you held dear were slain before your eyes? Then the elven scout who became your mentor (one of Aradil’s Eyes, no less) gave his life so that you could escape and live. At 20 years of age, Feyd is pretty much convinced that his life is doomed, and that everyone he comes in contact with will eventually die to the Shadow. His grim outlook on things precipitated my choice in this stat. That has little bearing on his physical attractiveness (who remembers the 1st edition Comeliness stat??? Original ‘Unearthed Arcana’??), but is a reflection of his general demeanor.

That also does not mean his outlook cannot improve with time (and specifically, levels 4, 8, and 12 … ). But for now, you’ll meet (I hope) a very forlorn young man with an itch to kill anything resembling an orc.

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Dirigible
Pidgen = 1/2 skp
Fluent = 1 skp
Literate = 2 skp


This is the system I would prefer using.

Edit: Doh, doh, doh. I read "skp" and somehow it was turned into "ranks" in my head. My bad, I don't want half-skill points floating around so if you decide to pick up pidgin you'll need to have a second language in mind, or be willing to throw away half a point.

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by PullOfTheSpirit
By the way, Cadrius, I was wondering how you handle alignment. Given the nature of the setting, it will obviously play an important factor, particularly when encountering Legates or other such servants of Izrador.

Unlike D&D I'm giving alignments more of a relative feel to them. Thus Detect Evil is really more like Detect Shadow, whereby it divines the presence of a devotion to Izrador or other such things. So I suppose a truly evil person could maim, murder, and mangle people left and right but if he doesn't give a crap about Izzy, then he won't pick up on your radar.

The reverse, Detect Light (for lack of a better term), might show the subject's willingness to stand against the darkness. So it matters less what your alignment is, but more what you believe in. Of course it's quite difficult to be evil or good without taking a stand for or against Izrador, but that's the way the world works.

How exactly do you define the varying alignments along the axis, and should I be aware of any actions that might shift my alignment to Evil? As an example, the Midnight campaign book mentions Dwarves practicing torture, and gladiatoral combats against prisoners of war. Would you consider that Evil?

Torture, regardless of the circumstances, really would be considered a malignant inflicting of pain upon a helpless foe. Even in that culture it's neutral at best and a shady one at that. It certainly isn't good, not by any means. Gladatiator Arenas likewise are not good, even with the best medical care and the lowest fatalities. Forcing someone into servitude isn't a good act.

One important thing for everyone to remember is that your character's actions determine his or her alignment, not vice versa. I've found there are even some veteran players out there who can't quite grasp this.

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Black Plauge
What say you Cadrius? What'll it be for us?

You know me, while I might enjoy discussing and reading the rules, I hate being bound by them. This seems like one of those cases where common sense outweighs whatever it is they were trying to attempt.

Of course you can charge through an area occupied by an ally. Extenuating circumstances aside your buddy will move if he sees you barreling toward him. I'll need to take a closer look at these rules but as it stands I think I'd agree to keep it more like 3.0.

Swash, it's totally acceptable that he has an eight for a charisma. I wasn't trying to harp on you guys or point to it and yell "Dump stat!" I just wanted to cover my bases for when NPCs are less than pleasant with the wildlander or dwarf, that's all.

[Swashbuckler]

Question:

Tindertwigs ... p.128 PHB. Available?

[Swashbuckler]

I know YOU weren't dumping on my CHA, Cad .. I just wanted everyone to understand the method behind my madness. :D

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Swashbuckler
Tindertwigs ... p.128 PHB. Available?

Yes, but the common man cannot afford such a trivial item. All it does is make lighting a fire easier and they have better things to barter for. As a result it tends to be a bit expensive as well as rare. In the southern cities its held as a novelty. I'd say it'd cost about 3GP to get your hands on them and only in reasonably populated areas.



Olive or Fish oil [no idea about cost]

Opaque container to steep them in (PHB clay jugs should suffice)

Containers to carry completed infused oils (PHB ceramic flasks, most likely)

Honey and/or sugar (not sure about cost of these)

Scale (merchant scale per phb)

Measuring cups (not sure on cost or weight)

Cinammon sticks (cinammon from PHB)

Bee's Wax (answered)

Various alcohols (wine?)

Heat source. I'm thinking some sort of oil lamp, like they would use to heat sealing wax. (no idea on cost or weight).

1. Once again it's dependent upon the area. While used in cooking, Olive Oil isn't made everywhere and thus isn't always readily available. However one might expect to be able to trade a day or two rations for a jar.

2. Opaque containers will work.

3. Yup, flasks.

4. Again, they're like baked goods and dependent upon how much they're wanted they could range from 5-15 SP.

5. Scale, yes.

6. Measuring Cups. I'd say 1GP and 2lb.

7. Cinnamon, yep.

8. Alcohols, will likely be similar to wine or ale prices.

9. Heat source. Perhaps we'll make it simple and charge you for a normal lamp.

There, I think I replied to all the issues as hand. Sheesh guys, you're keeping me awfully busy.

[Swashbuckler]

Originally posted by Cadrius
One important thing for everyone to remember is that your character's actions determine his or her alignment, not vice versa. I've found there are even some veteran players out there who can't quite grasp this.

And I'm a veteran DM and Player who not only grasps the idea, but feels directly opposite. I've had this discussion with so many people over the last 10 years it makes my head spin just thinking about it.

The long and the short of my viewpoint is this: you are playing a character in a game. Much like being handed a script for a part in a play, you as the Player are acting out the role of some person/creature that has some pre-defined characteristics. Regardless of how you personally would handle any given situation which your PC may find itself in, the game just isn't 'real life', no matter how 'life-like' someone wants it to be.

Therefore, when a PC with a L/N/C Good alignment comes upon the quintessential damsel in distress, his alignment dictates that he try to rescue her from whatever danger she is facing. Contrasted, a Lawful Evil PC might help the damsel, but only if he got something out of it. A Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil PC might actually jump in and help out with the 'distressing'.

This is just a minor example - please don't armchair-quarterback it to death. Alignment, like the combat system, is a mechanic of the game. As a DM, you choose which mechanics you will and will not include. More than anything, alignments are a guide to how your character will react to life in general, not an edict of "Thou shalt ..."

If you choose to not include the given alignment system, that's fine - and I applaud your homebrew 'ethics' alternative! But please don't knock those of us who feel differently. I've got over 22 years of experience with D&D and AD&D, and I've got a long history of running epic campaigns with successful uses of the given alignment system.

I've also found that when players stick to the alignment that they chose for their PC, it makes them roleplay that much better, because it then becomes the Player portraying a fantasy character, not the Player jumping into a false world and acting out themselves in the same circumstances.

[Cadrius]

I guess it's simply a difference in opinion. I've always viewed alignments as guidelines, nothing more, finding them to be too broad for my own comfort. Indeed, it seems as if we've had opposite experiences. My best results have come from games where alignment takes a back seat to a more personalized set of ethics and behavior. My headaches have come from games where players let their alignment dictate their actions.

When questioned why a goblin PC severed a dead person's leg, extracted the femur, and used it as a makeshift club, he responded, "Because I'm evil." For some that might work, for me it doesn't. I like alignment to be like any other personal detail like height or eye color. It adds flavor and fleshes them out, but it shouldn't be something to agonize over.

[Swashbuckler]

I understand where you're coming from - I do. You'll have to trust me on that. We have different viewpoints, is all. Just don't think that I'm ignorant or that I don't know what I'm talking about, and we'll get along just fine! :D

Like I said, I like your home-rule of actions. I'll have no problem adapting to that style.

[Cadrius]

But perhaps I misspoke. I did not mean to imply that those that disagreed were ignorant, they're just wrong. :roll: I can, however, appreciate the other side as I used to do the same thing. I guess I just had a change of heart. Perhaps my real problem is with players who use alignment as a shield to hide behind. "Of course my rogue helps an old woman across the street and then burns her house down. He's chaotic neutral!"

[Berova]

Is Trader's Tongue considered a pidgin language per p.106 of MN?

If so, does that mean it's considered 1/2 skill?

[Berova]

Not to pick apart your character, but fluency in High Elven costs two ranks because of its complexity, and Erenlanders do not have Traders Tongue as an automatic language.

I am aware that the Erenlander bonus language includes any language except the secret or restricted languages, but I am not sure what Pull is refering to when he says Erenlanders do not have Traders Tongue as an automatic language. According to MN pg. 106 entry under Trader's Tongue:

Because most races recognize many of their own words and linguistic elements in Trader's Tongue, they find it unusually easy to learn.

[Swashbuckler]

Okay, being that I've played in/am playing in several Midnight games (both PnP and PbP), the language system used in almost all of them is:

- Automatic Language(s) based on race
- Bonus Lang(s) for high INT score (must be chosen from your racial list): 1 lang per pt of ability bonus (a 16 INT gives 3 extra langs)
- 1 skill pt (unless otherwise stated on pgs 106-107, Midnight CS) to learn other languages over and above racial and INT-bonus choices.
- Read/Write of anything is 1 skill pt extra, except Old Dwarven which is 2 pts (p.108 Midnight CS)

This is the least confusing way to do it, but again, it's only one option. Don't take my version of it as gospel truth ... it's Cadrius's call.

Also, for note, Erenlanders choose ANY language for bonus languages, other than 'secret' ones such as the Black Tongue or Druidic. This does not cost skill points, if they have an ability bonus from a high INT score.

[Swashbuckler]

PS - all done with my character sheet. It's posted. Sorry about the delay.

PPS - So Maeko is female ... I know I'm male, what about the rest of ye? Do we have gents playing female PC's?

[Berova]

Not to harp on the language thing ... but MN refers to Black Tongue as a pidgen language of sorts. Can we treat it as such (skp wise)?

[Dirigible]

I'm as manly as a Man United supporter crossing the River Manly in winter, stark naked, carrying a basket of snakes in my teeth.



And the fact I wear women's underwear in no way challanges that.

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Dirigible
crossing the River Manly in winter, stark naked,


Funny, I bet you wouldn't look very manly then.


Is Trader's Tongue considered a pidgin language per p.106 of MN?

...but MN refers to Black Tongue as a pidgen language of sorts. Can we treat it as such (skp wise)?

While you could learn the pidgin versions of these languages, they are both their own and cost a skill point each to learn fluently (as listed).

- Automatic Language(s) based on race
- Bonus Lang(s) for high INT score (must be chosen from your racial list): 1 lang per pt of ability bonus (a 16 INT gives 3 extra langs)
- 1 skill pt (unless otherwise stated on pgs 106-107, Midnight CS) to learn other languages over and above racial and INT-bonus choices.
- Read/Write of anything is 1 skill pt extra, except Old Dwarven which is 2 pts (p.108 Midnight CS)

This seems more or less what I had in mind, but perhaps I was misleading somewhere. The only addition I would make here is the option of learning pidgin in two languages for the price of one skill point. You sacrifice specialization for flexibility and that's fine by me.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Automatic Languages are detailed in every races Languages section. They are the languages your character knows without using bonus selections from Intelligence or skillpoints. The only Automatic Language Erenlanders have is Erenlander.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

So, are we starting tomorrow? Most of the characters are fully worked up now. Only a few minor adjustments and we should be ready to roll.

[Cadrius]

The goal is to start tomorrow. All I need to do is get Maeko's finalized background and double-check everyone's sheet to make sure there aren't any issues before we can begin.

[Gralhruk]

Yeesh. It feels like I've got 12 days worth of posts to catch up on instead of 12 hours :).

Oh, and for those who are curious, I'm a man - and a manly man at that (chainsaws and beer, oh yeah!). Aleina is all the things I'm not ;).

[Swashbuckler]

Chainsaws & Beer!!

We should make that a battlecry or something ... :)

[Gralhruk]

It's all fun and games until some drunken guy saws your arm off.

[Black Plauge]

As long as there's a surgeon in the group its still fun and games when an arm gets sawed off.:D

[Gralhruk]

Add in a machinist and a computer scientist, and you'll see a bunch of drunk guys building their own terminator.

[Gralhruk]

Of course, they probably fail miserably and end up with RoboDrunk instead.

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Gralhruk
It's all fun and games until some drunken guy saws your arm off.

I was waiting for the mandatory Evil Dead reference but it never came...sad...

Speaking of Bruce Campbell, I had the pleasure of listening to him speak this past weekend at the premiere for his new movie, Bubba Hotep, down in NYC. Very cool guy, I must say.

[Gralhruk]

Actually, I've never seen any of the Evil dead movies.

[Black Plauge]

What the hell is Evil Dead?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Hail to the King, baby.
This..... is my BOOMSTICK!
Names Ash.... housewares.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I cannot believe you two have not seen Evil Dead. Classic. Come get some.

[Cadrius]

Right, you might know Army of Darkness better (aka Evil Dead 3). The series as a whole is a rather odd one. The original is nothing more than a B horror flick, the second is more tongue and cheek, and the third lands clearly in the realms of horror-comedy.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I know I am forgetting a few lines. Ah, now I remember another one.

"You loved me once."
"Yeah, but you got real ugly."

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Oh, and Bubba Hotep has Bruce Campbell? Maybe I will go check it out. So far the best movie I have seen this year is Once Upon A Time In Mexico.

[Swashbuckler]

"But what about all of those sweet things you said to me?"

"Aw ... that was just pillow talk, baby."

Long live ASH!! :D

[Gralhruk]

Cadrius, I'll have my equipment finished up in an hour or three and then I'm done.

[Black Plauge]

Same here.

[Cadrius]

Good, I'm typing up the IC post as we speak. It's going to take a little while though given that I need to introduce the seven of you.

[Cadrius]

Done! Sweet Jebus that took a while. Never say I don't try for you guys.

I took liberties with just about every single character but I tried to keep it reasonable and logical. Hopefully there isn't anything too out of place here. The hardest part was fitting the demihumans in but I think it works. If anyone has serious objections before we begin I can edit your introduction as needed.

So have at it gentlemen and lady, and hopefully it'll only get better from here.

[Dirigible]

Gralhruk said : Aleina is all the things I'm not .

Like doilies and listning and leaving the seat down on the toilet?

"Alright you primitive orc-heads, this is my BOOM SWORD!"

You know what sucks?

I'm a day ahead of most of you, yet I ahve to act like I'm a day behind :)

Has it begun? Can we start over in the game thread?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Looks great to me. And so, it begins.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I assume the Gnomes gave me directions to the Healers dwelling, correct?

[Cadrius]

No, as Kingscross lies so far inland the gnomes themselves have not been there. However having watched the town for a while it's not unreasonable to assume that Soradur could make an educated guess; particularly if he saw an injured person being taken there.

[Dirigible]

Is anyone in sight of anyone else? Or, by some fortune, did we all arrive at equidistant compas points :)

Cadrius said : No, as Kingscross lies so far inland the gnomes themselves have not been there.

Umm...I don't know what your attitude is to pedants and nitpickers, but the coordinates you give place Kingscross a little south=west of Caderin, only... 25 miles? maybe? (the scale on the MN map is rather grainy) from the Ardune.

However having watched the town for a while it's not unreasonable to assume that Soradur could make an educated guess; particularly if he saw an injured person being taken there

But don't make them injured just to find out :)

[Cadrius]

Ack! Part of that is a typo on my part, I was afraid some of those might sneak through amidst the mass sea of writing. If only I had access to a map that I could mess with and post for you guys.

To clarify my bad location: Kingscross is actually located NE of Caderin. If you look at your handy Midnight map and look at the "Westlands," the village should be located at the "d" in "Westlands." This would place it approximately 500 miles from Baden's Bluff to the N-NW, 400 from Erenhead to the NE, 200 or so from Caderin to the SW and perhaps 150 from the river to the E and further to the Ardune to the S.

But don't make them injured just to find out

Nope. All that have watched the town can see that you aren't the only ones coming here. People can occasionally be seen bringing their injured along with them, so either they just happen to be there or they going to the healer. It isn't in droves by any means, but the astute observer notices that there a good number of wagons coming in have someone that's sick or wounded, nothing too unusual for these times, but still something to notice.

As far as seeing each other, I'll leave that up to you. I've tried setting you in different areas depending upon your background. Thus the humans such as Aleina, Lyr, and Dun could reasonably see each other on the road. The others (Feyd, Soradur, Elennir, and Heulwen) could have conceivably seen each other near the wilds but I imagine each is taking a precaution keep themselves hidden from prying eyes.

[Maeko]

A note, Cadrius : Siegrid is a female name, if you want the missing one to be male what about Sigurd Larsen?

[Cadrius]

*sigh* My day for mistakes I suppose, but to my credit I'm not too familiar with such names. If you don't mind, let's change it to Sigurd unless you had some vested interest in the female informant, in which case I'll craft another reason for her having gone missing.

[Gralhruk]

I know martial weapons are prohibited.

How about run of the mill things like knives or daggers?

A sickle for harvesting herbs?

Aleina is going to have a pack mule with her. Would that be considered unusual, or make her subject to any impromtu search and siezure?

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by Gralhruk
I know martial weapons are prohibited.

How about run of the mill things like knives or daggers?

A sickle for harvesting herbs?

Aleina is going to have a pack mule with her. Would that be considered unusual, or make her subject to any impromtu search and siezure?

There can be a fine line between weapons and tools, however the Shadow can't put a ban on all edged implements and expect people to survive. Knives are all right, I'd even hazard daggers are provided they're used as simply larger knives. Again, if it's a tool, it's okay. Although woodsmen likely are allowed saws over axes and fishermen need to use nets and lines over spears.

Having a mule isn't unusual, being a lithe erenlander woman traveling alone is.

[Maeko]

Sigurd is fine, but change the full name, though, 'Gudrunsdottir' means 'daughter of Gudrun' (another female name). :)

[Cadrius]

That much I know about Norse names and it'll be changed accordingly.

[Maeko]

:)

[Gralhruk]

I hate to do this, but I'm not going to be able to post just yet. I updated my equipment, but I don't have time to post coherently. If you need to move things along, just assume Aleina enters the village looking for some reason why she may have been drawn there.

I'll try to get on in a few hours and post something decent.

[Black Plauge]

There, the equipment list is finalized. I decided in the end to use the "starting allocation" to "purchase" the various riding equipment that Heulwen is going to need, but sice Cytaill (and therefore riding) is going to be on the perifery until 2nd level and beyond, I've taken the liberty to hide it before heading into town.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Personally, I would like to keep moving. Everyone is online right now, and it would be great to get the game going on the first day.

[Dirigible]

Plauge : That's a really elegant solution to the not-getting-bonded-animal-until-2nd-level problem.

[Black Plauge]

Hey, people, can we please remember to uncheck the little box under the post box that says "Show signature" when posting IC? I know I'm sounding like Gralhurk, but I've found that IC posts are that much easier to follow without signatures to skip over.

[Swashbuckler]

Consider it done.

Excellent posts, btw, gang! :)

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Yes, everyone has done a great job so far. It seems Cadrius has decided to wait for Gralhruk. Until tomorrow, then.

[Dirigible]

I see burying things is the new fashion du jour in central Erenland :)

[i]edit[/i Gotten rid of the signature... after I realised mine was a big as three or four of everyone elses :) Stupid Thief addicton...

[Black Plauge]

Thanks. Some of the credit has to go to Cadrius for allowing Cytaill to exist and be known to Heulwen despite the lack of any official connection.

As for the gear, I ended up deciding to get it out of starting funds because otherwise they would have gone to waste. Coinage was out of the question because of Heulwen's status as a runaway slave, and more trade goods would have been very impractical (Heulwen's alread got 3 ½ lbs of them). Also, I'd imagine that such gear as she's got would be incredibly hard to find by any other means, so she's got it now, but it won't really come into play right away.

Also, I'd like to thank Cadrius for settleing a dilema for me. I was debating whether to choose a Peasent's Outfit or Traveler's Outfit as Heulwen's starting set. In my mind a peasent's outfit would be more appropriate for a runaway slave, but a traveler's (or explorer's outfit, which is my default choice in just about every game) would be more appropriate for some one out on their own. By making the comments on the condition of her clothes, Cadrius settled the issue for me (even if he didn't know it).

[Cadrius]

Hey, they say it's better to be lucky than good.

Speaking of which BP, will Heulwen be taking any precautions about walking into town (disguises, etc)? Halflings are generally enslaved or are nomadic (the only free settlements being the ones on the border of the elven woods).

[Black Plauge]

Hmm... That depends I suppose. Do the orcs do anything to mark their slaves? Brands or some such things?

[Cadrius]

Given the large turnover with halfing slaves (they're just so damn breakable), likely not. More importantly they can be passed to and fro with any orcish slavemaster, branding would only complicate things. So in short, no.

[Black Plauge]

Then, not having any prior experience hiding from orcs and goblins in a town, I'm going to say it wouldn't occur to her before actually getting into town.:(

However, I'm willing to bet, that after one experience of trying to make her way through a town, she won't ever forget again.:)

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Just to make certain my actions are clear, Soradur will be waiting until sunset before entering the town. He will avoid any contact with other people until he reaches the Healers dwelling, which he will move to with all possible speed. I calcuated that if Disguised, it would take a DC 4 Spot check to realize he is a Dwarf. So haste is the essential factor in his plan.

[Berova]

see burying things is the new fashion du jour in central Erenland

Yes, I understand, just outside all municipalities and townships
the countryside looks like there is a gopher infestation throughout Erenland. LOL

I was debating whether to choose a Peasent's Outfit or Traveler's Outfit as Heulwen's starting set.

You could get both like I did for Dun! ;)

[Black Plauge]

Didn't make sense to have both, yet.

And, who said Heulwen buried her stuff? I just said she hid the gear, I didn't say how.

[Dirigible]

Pull said : I calcuated that if Disguised, it would take a DC 4 Spot check to realize he is a Dwarf. So haste is the essential factor in his plan

No... he could be a mobile, bearded boulder !

Imagine the poor farmers tilling outside Kingscross

"Doo doo de doo... *crunch* ugh ! What's my plough hit ! A cache of weapons? Oh well..."

Severla iterations later.

"Doo doo de *crunch* ANOTHER CACHE? BLOODY ADVENTURES !"

[Black Plauge]

That is of course assuming that one forgets to or is unable to retrieve said weapons. Especially given that the others who have hidden their things have specified that they did so in the forest.


Edit: Question for you Cadrius, does Craft (Bowmaking) also cover the making of arrows or does one have to take Craft (Fletching) seperately? Also, what's the DC for making arrows? The SRD overlooks them, though it does list regular bows and simple melee and thrown weapons at DC 12, composite bows, crossbows and martial melee and thrown weapons at DC 15, composites with a high strength rating at DC 15 + (2 x STR Bonus), and exotic melee weapons at DC 18.

[Dirigible]

Black Plauge said : That is of course assuming that one forgets to or is unable to retrieve said weapons.

No, that's assuming it's funny.

[Black Plauge]

I'm the straight man.

Or didn't any one tell you that.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Considering that Craft: Weaponsmithing allows you to make both melee and thrown weapons, it would be logical to assume that Craft: Bowyer allows you to make both bows and arrows. I think Swashbuckler has both Craft: Bowyer and Craft: Fletching on his skill list, but AFAIK you only need Craft: Bowyer.

By the way Berova, Knowledge skills are based on Intelligence, not Wisdom.

[Cadrius]

Yes "Craft: Bowyer" really should read "Craft: Bowyer/Fletcher." It'd be a pain in the ass to have to pursue both skill paths.

[Berova]

Thanks again Pull.

[Gralhruk]

Aleina is easily visible to the other humans on the road, if anyone wants to speak with her.

[Cadrius]

Pull, you can post your response to my update, but I likely won't continue until I give everyone a chance to get a post or two more up. They still have a few hours of daylight separating them from you and as much fun as it is to run two timelines at once I think I'll refrain.

[Dirigible]

Cadrius, I was thinking, do you want to use a formalised colour code for languages? I put Lyr's words in orange out of habit, as that's the colour for Erenlander in most of the PbP's on AtS. I find it a very helpful tool.

These are the one's I use.

Erenlander = orange
High Elven = green
Jungle Mouth = lime green
Trader's Tongue = yellow
Black Tongue = dark red

Coincidentally, does anyone else have trouble seeing the colour Cad uses for Aleina's name? I blends in so well with the charming background of this site it becomes invisible for me :)

[Gralhruk]

I wanted sky blue (for her eyes) but BlackPlague beat me to it :).

[Black Plauge]

I find that most of the darker colors blend in to some degree or another. If I really am having trouble I usually highlight the text, the resultant blue on white or white on blue text is easily read.

[Cadrius]

Hmm, I'll think it over, but personally it's enough of a hassle to colorize everyone's name, doing it whenever someone speaks might be a bit much. I'd rather assume that all dialogue is to be in Trader's Tongue unless a tag that states otherwise. Italics could help with this as well.

"You're quite the dancer, Izzy," she says, speaking in High Elven, "but how's your soft-shoe?"

And Aleina's color is just a randomly pulled one. I would've used blue, but two characters already had that and indigo seemed to fit her. If it's really a problem I can switch it out with something else.

[Black Plauge]

In this CS does the Scent ability provide any information about emotions? In standard D&D it doesn't, but I've played in other CS's where it does.

[itches]

Question from the peanut gallery.

What's a soft-shoe?

[Gralhruk]

It's the thing I'm going to throw at you.

[itches]

Well the name suggests it's soft. So I'm not too worried.

[Gralhruk]

Yes, soft with big, pointy spikes.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Once I post a response, I do not mind waiting. So that will be fine.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Heulwen, Dun, and Elennir all seem to be missing descriptions. What do they look like? I just want to know what to visualize when I am reading.

[Black Plauge]

I was going to get to that after I finished posting in game.

Hey, Cadrius, any ruling on the emotion thing? (See my post above the dialog with itches.)

[Cadrius]

Likely I'll only include it as flavor, not as any game mechanic. Scent is enough of a pain as it stands, but should it enhance the scene I'll include some sort of emotion along with it.

Edit: I've gone with a variation on Dirigible's colors for languages if you guys want to check it out.

[Gralhruk]

Here is a question: should we post our character's thoughts in color to indicate what language they are thinking in?

It popped into my head (in english) as kind of a smartass question to bug you with, and then I thought it might actually be important if someone should read your mind. I'd rather not colorize them and just assume it's your native tongue but I figured I'd ask anyway.

[Cadrius]

While I appreciate the smart-ass question, I'll assume that your character will think in their native tongue unless otherwise noted at the time.

[Gralhruk]

Duly noted, DM Nightwing.

[Swashbuckler]

Originally posted by Cadrius
Yes "Craft: Bowyer" really should read "Craft: Bowyer/Fletcher." It'd be a pain in the ass to have to pursue both skill paths.

Uh ... okay. Then I need to modify my PC sheet info. I'll get on that!

[Black Plauge]

Just as a reminder, Heulwen's hair, while very short, is covered by shawl. I'm not saying people wouldn't notice it, but they best be giving her more than a casual glance.

[Swashbuckler]

ack ... my bad. Didn't read that the shawl covered her head. I'll fix that.

[Black Plauge]

I wasn't trying to say that anything had to be fixed. Only pointing it out for the others so that they didn't just assume they could see it.

From your description of Feyd's actions, I could easily have interpreted it as warranting a spot check, if not taking 20 on said check. Given that Heulwen made no attempt at a disguise or to hide her short hair, only that she normally wears a shawl I could see Feyd, with his +5 Spot, beating the DC to notice the short hair.

However, I do like your changes. Makes me realize just how obvious it is that Heulwen is a runaway, even if she doesn't yet.

[Swashbuckler]

No prob. I just wanted to maintain continuity. Before I posted the first time, I had gone in and looked at Heulwen's description. I saw the shawl, but that it was over her shoulders. I like to be semi-accurate when I post. :)

Glad you liked the edits!

[Cadrius]

BP, I've sent you a PM detailing what Stafford said.

[Black Plauge]

Got it.

Edit: And replied appropriately. I'll let you handle the rest.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Ha. Nevermind. My mistake.

[Berova]

I'll post a description of Dun by the end of the day, been busy at work and all.

[Gralhruk]

Swashbuckler, if you would prefer that Feyd hear Aleina approaching just let me know.

[Swashbuckler]

Nope ... using it as a roleplay schizm ... he was focused so much upon talking to the halfling that he had shut out anything else. growth potential! :D

Thanks anyhow!

[Cadrius]

Maeko, you might want to consider cleaning out your private messages (both sent and received) as it's full right now.

*gasp* Is someone actually going to learn another character's name?

[Gralhruk]

Maeko's messagebox is always full - she's very popular :).

And hey, I think the group has already laid some decent groundwork for eventually meeting up. Plus, nobody has killed anyone else.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

C'mon, nightfall! Nice interaction so far, by the way.

[Dirigible]

Grakhruk said : Plus, nobody has killed anyone else.

Cheee-ya. In the words of the sages, Gral, the night she be still young.

[Gralhruk]

Have I mentioned that Bombur is a trained war-mule?

http://smilies.crowd9.com/ups/chaos99/greenchainsaw.gif

[Swashbuckler]

Have I mentioned that Feyd's dagger is a Vorpal Dagger +5, Mule-Bane ??? :evil: hehehehehehehehe ...

[Gralhruk]

Just remember that when dealing with Aleina, always keep one eye on her ass :O.

*ducks*

[Cadrius]

If we had an audience, there would've been an audible groan after that one.

[Dirigible]

l33t d0nk3i sk1llz.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I know Midnight is using Bajoran days, but how what is the time differential between sunlight and darkness? In other words, how long is the sun usually up, versus how long the stars are out?

[Dirigible]

Hehehehe...Bajoran days

So, can we expect captain Sisko and the Cardasians soon?

[Swashbuckler]

Originally posted by Gralhruk
Just remember that when dealing with Aleina, always keep one eye on her ass :O.

*ducks*

Posting some intriguing (but non-offensive) pictures might help us to ... uh, better visualize Aleina ... yeah! :? BigRedRod should be able to help ... does Aleina have a twin sister, by chance??? :D

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Well, it is rather obvious where the Midnight team got their inspiration from. The Dominion is amusingly similar to Izradors forces in both tactics and style. The Romulans could pass easily as Elves, the Cardassians as the Dorn, the Klingons as the Dwarves, the Federation as the Sarcosans, and the Bajorans as the Halflings. I can't figure what the Gnomes are, though. :fun:

[Black Plauge]

Ferengi, obviously.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Damn. One of my favorite races, too. How could I miss that. :?

[Black Plauge]

There easy to overlook, unless you have buisness to do.:)

[Swashbuckler]

Noses ... ears ... it's all the same. :)

[Berova]

Originally posted by PullOfTheSpirit
... the Cardassians as the Dorn ... the Federation as the Sarcosans ...

Erenlanders [shivers] :?

[Black Plauge]

Hmm... Cadrius, I seem to have misplaced my printed copy of the PM you sent me and deleted the electronic copy in my inbox. Do you think you could resend it to me, or at least a summary of the temporal information contained therein? I still have the copy of my reply so I don't need that.

[Cadrius]

As someone who isn't really a fan of Star Trek, I somehow feel out of place. I've watched some episodes of each and, they're all right. I actually think I enjoyed the latest one more simply due to the lower tech.

With regard to the days/nights, it's only an extra two hours. For simplicity's sake, I'll just extend the day by that much. It'll stay light a little longer during the summer and stay dark longer during the winter, but it's nothing too drastic.

BP, I'll send you another copy.

[Dirigible]

For God's sake, stop ! The fabric of space/time/pants can only take so much geekiness in one place before it implodes ! With D&D AND Star Trek in one place (say it with me now....)

SHE CANNA TAEK MOOCH MOORE, CAPPIN !

[Swashbuckler]

So here's a question:

This is from the AtS Fansite:

Wil_Upchurch wrote: All druids and all rangers in 3.5 have Wild Empathy. It was meant to replace the Animal Empathy exclusive skill, therefore if wildlanders had animal empathy, they should get wild empathy as a class ability at 1st level.

So, since it's from the mouth of the creator, are you going to allow your wildlanders the Wild Empathy trait?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Cadrius already said earlier that he was going to allow Wild Empathy as a class trait for those who previously possessed the Animal Empathy skill.

Getting back to the important matter of Star Trek and D&D, did you ever consider the bizzare similarities between the original Star Trek cast and an adventuring party? Especially their resemblance to a few now standard "archetypes" of both race and class. I tell you, all D&D writers subconciously rip off/are inspired by the various Star Trek series.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Oh, and "DIVERT ALL POWER TO THE ENGINES AND READY THE PHOTON CANNONS!" Is the proper response, yes?

[Dirigible]

I took a wee bit of artistic lisence with the way a Spellsoul interacts with a Channeler... hope noone objects.

Lessee, Pull

Kirk = Half-elf Bard
Spock = Elf Magic User
Bones = Human Cleric (I'm a miracle worker, not a doctor!)
Sulu = Human Fighter
Chekov = Human Fighter
Uhura = ummmm... wasn't there a Token Black Person class back in 1st Ed?
Scotty = Dwarf Rogue?

No...I'm not seeing it so far...

[PullOfTheSpirit]

For the love of every God that ever was or ever shall be, Kirk is not a friggin Half-Elven BARD! Ahem. I will thank you not to take to such a ridiculous notion again.

As for the stereotypes. Kirk is the classic Fighter-leader type. Sure, he has strong moral beliefs, is intelligent, and has a great sense of leadership. But in the end he always knows the best way to solve a situation is to kick some arse.

Spock practically defines both the reserved, better than thou Elf, and the incredibly controlled, powerful Archmage. Calm, dispassionate, incredibly intelligent, and probably the most powerful of the group. But he prefers to be second in command, and keeps his secrets and desires locked hidden away. He even has the ears.

Scotty is the epitome of the Dwarf. You may be able to argue on the others, but not this one. Every characteristic a Dwarf from D&D has, he had first. They even stole the bad accent from him.

I will have to post on the others at another time, especially McCoy, but for now I will content myself with the above three.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

You know, the Book Of Exalted Deeds is looking very good. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004a I think I may pick it up. Cadrius, assuming the various feats, skills and so forth are balanced, would you have any problem allowing material from the book, should I purchase it?

[Dirigible]

Pull Said : For the love of every God that ever was or ever shall be, Kirk is not a friggin Half-Elven BARD!

Ahah! Found your weak spot !

Berova Said : ... something stunning about (Aleina) even from this vantage.

Someone's been following Gral's advice...

[Gralhruk]

I'd call Spock a Psion rather than Wizard.

At any rate, I think the spellsoul / channeler thing is pretty cool (channeler sense is tingling). It also provides a convenient hook for them to meet.

Someone's been following Gral's advice...
:)

[Cadrius]

Originally posted by PullOfTheSpirit
You know, the Book Of Exalted Deeds is looking very good. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004a I think I may pick it up. Cadrius, assuming the various feats, skills and so forth are balanced, would you have any problem allowing material from the book, should I purchase it?

As usual, I'd need a full write-up of any new material you want to use. I'm more inclined to trust it, given that it was made by Wizards, but I still want to see anything before I let it in.

[Gralhruk]

Hmmm. Does the innkeeper give me directions to the healer's place?

[Cadrius]

You know, the innkeeper is a lot like me, he means well but every once in a while he's struck by a bout of forgetfullness. I'll edit accordingly.

[Black Plauge]

Having trouble finding an avatar you like, Cadrius?

Anyway, depending on how you want to handle it, it might be best to play out the rest of Heulwen's day in PMs, seeing as she's alone right now.

Of course, she could still run into Soradur, who is hanging out on the edge of town, out of sight all day.;)

[Cadrius]

Yeah, the stock ones here just weren't doing it for me anymore. Besides, I had that devilishly handsome icon since I came here, I figured I needed an avatar that was more nasty for our game. And to be honest, I can't think of something more badass than a balrog.

In regard to Heulwen, well, there's always the possibility for a chance encounter with a wounded dwarf.

[Gralhruk]

I can't think of something more badass than a balrog.

Gandalf?

[Cadrius]

Gandalf?


Perhaps, perhaps, but what you're not seeing is that the balrog in my avatar is but one in a gang of balrogs. The picture was taken just as the 'rogs were getting ready to jump a group of elves for crossing onto their turf.

It's truly terrifying to watch a dozen balrogs, snapping their fingers as they perform graceful choreography to a broadway soundtrack. And look out! Does that one have a knife?!

*flees*

[Gralhruk]

Okay, slowly now, put the bottle down . . . put it down. That's it. Now, very carefully, step away from the bar.

:)

Actually, the balrog is much more in keeping with the "devil" theme you've had going.

[Cadrius]

Aw, you stopped me just before I was getting to the part where a star-crossed lovers, a balrog and an elf, come together despite the animosity their gangs feel for each other.

BP, shall I assume Heulwen is going to retrieve her possessions before going off through the woods and to the first rendevouz point?

[Black Plauge]

Assuming there is plenty of time until sunset then no. As I posted, Heulwen will hide her backpack with the rest of the stuff and then go to scout the southwestern rendez-vous point. However, since she isn't supposed to be there until just after dark, and she stated that she wanted to meet with Feyd (and Aleina if she comes) just before dark she's going to have to come back to the hiding place to keep the first meeting, get her backpack, and then head off to keep the second.

Of course if there isn't that much time left in the day then scratch most of what I just said. I'll have to rethink everything in that case.

[Cadrius]

There's probably two or three hours left before dark. It'll be a decent hike to get from the first point to the second, but it's possible for her to do it, she just can't waste too much time dawdling. I'm sure that's exactly what she had in mind too, dawdling.

If that still works, good, if not I'll give you time to rethink.

[Gralhruk]

I just remembered something, although at this point it probably doesn't matter. You aren't restricted to the colors in the dropdown when you post - you can specify the hex RGB value of the color you want:

Aleina (-=CCFFFF]Aleina[/color])

That's a lighter blue than sky blue. Anyway, since we've already posted many times there is no reason to change, but I figured I'd mention it.

[Black Plauge]

I suppose the question really is not whether she can make it once (since she has to do that anyway), but whether she can make it three times: twice at unencumbered speed (20 ft) and once at encumbered speed (15 ft).

If it seems like there's enough time then she's going to try. If she gets to a point where it seems like the trip is taking too long, then she'll head back to pick up her back pack and keep the first rendez-vous.

I don't know how big Kingscross is, but looking at the overland movement tables, Heulwen should be able to make an eight mile round trip in two hours if she takes the subdual and doesn't stop for anything.

If I assume three hours to dark, two of which are actual daylight and the third is twilight (i.e. after sunset, but not yet dark). Then Heulwen could make the scouting mission (assuming its four miles one way from meeting point to meeting point), get back for her meeting with Feyd and Aleina, then hustle back to the southwest portion of town, arriving 15 to 30 minutes after dark (depending on how long she stays with Feyd and Aleina).

Are all those assumptions accurate? If not, where am I making the bad assumption?

[Gralhruk]

Don't halflings in Midnight get lowlight vision?

[Black Plauge]

Yes, they do, but I don't quite see how that affects anything...

Unless..., of course! The twilight period would be approximately twice as long for a creature with low-light vision. So if its three hours to human dark, two of daylight and one of twilight, its four hours to halfling dark, two of daylight and two of twilight. Now it becomes even more important that I know how things look. Heulwen (having not interacted much with humans before) will interpret 'after dark' diffrent than they would.

[Gralhruk]

Okay, perhaps I was paying too much attention to the pretty colors and not enough attention to the discussion.

[Black Plauge]

Hmm... After checking the SRD, the only pertinant rule I can find is that creatures with lowlight vision can see as well on a moonlit night outdoors as they can in daylight. There don't appear to be any rules about twilight and how long it lasts. So, since we seem to be in an area that's totally up to the DM's discretion, Cadrius, can you be more specific as to how much actual daylight versus twilight is left before dark and how having low-light vision affects those numbers?

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I am fairly certain it is irrelevant in any case, since Feyd is Human and you told him to meet you at twilight. Showing up at dark would be breaking the arranged meeting time. I am not aware if your character intends to do this, but if she wants to make it on time she only has two hours. Remember that Heulwen said:


"When the sky still has light but no sun."

[Black Plauge]

I'm well aware of when I said Heulwen would meet Feyd. I'm also aware of when Heulwen's second meeting is and who its with, something the rest of you (except Cadrius of course) are not.

[Dirigible]

It's with Izrador, isn't it ?!?! TRAITOR SCUM !

We're being betrayed by the halfling !

[Swashbuckler]

Of course ... the halfling is really one of the Night Kings in disguise ... and here my PC is, buying her some clothes ... :dead:

[Gralhruk]

An awful lot of meetings for a runaway slave. Did the orcs supply their prisoners with Palm Pilots so they could keep track of their various engagements?

[Dirigible]

Well, better than having a nude evil halfling running around, I suppose.

[Gralhruk]

I was going to comment on that last statement, but I thought the better of it.

[Dirigible]

Well, better than having a nude evil commenting Gralhruk running around, I suppose.

[Gralhruk]

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/xerx/smileydavid.gif

[Black Plauge]

Didn't you see it on her equipment list? I'm sure I listed a Tungsten T3 on there somewhere.:)

Now, if the person who really matters would just weigh in on the issue.

[Cadrius]

Gral, I never knew you were so pale, go get some sun, would ya?

While it won't affect the meeting with Feyd, you're sort of right. It wouldn't stay light any longer but Heulwen's vision would remain sharp for an increased amount of time (about an hour would be fair). So her perception of dark would, in fact, be different.

[Black Plauge]

Hold on a minute! I said she'd leave the backpack, not her weapons! The sword and bow (with quiver of course) easily fit under her light load so she can carry them and still be unencumbered. At only a month from freedom Heulwen isn't so brazen as to go about unarmed yet. Hell, she even took them into town (though no one seemed to notice)!

To clarify:

What's hidden:
Saddle & Tack
Halfling Lance
Backpack
Equipment listed as being in the backpack

What Huelwen has with her:
Equipment listed as worn (which includes her weapons)
Beltpouch
Equipment listed as being in the beltpouch

[Cadrius]

Edited accordingly. With half the party hiding stuff, it's easy to get confused who has what on them.

[Black Plauge]

Heulwen's using several diffrent skills and her heroic path ability.

Basically:

Move Silently to hiding place at full speed (+10 -5 penalty = +5)
Hide (+12)
Spot (+6)
Scent

Now to see what she learns as a result.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

Ahoy there, ye landlubbin lollygaggers. It seems we're in a need of a few more hearties on our latest raid, so I suggest ye scurry on over to the captains cabin and report for duty! http://www.online-roleplaying.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2004

Edit: Arrrr!

[Gralhruk]

I'm assuming that the herbalist will already have some sort of bartering network in place with the locals. That is, I'm hoping Aleina can get paid with credit at various places around town. She doesn't have a huge variety of her own stuff to trade.

[Black Plauge]

The black text is meant to symbolize the use of Heulwen's animal communion ability (wildlander trait). Since it works like speak with animals, and that spell doesn't actually say that you speak a diffrent language, only that animals can understand you and be understood by you, I went on the assumption that any person who could hear her could understand her (provided they spoke halfling). Is that how you want to handle it Cadrius, or would you prefer something else?

[Cadrius]

Which is fine but keep in mind that the average wogren has an intelligence of seven. Be cautious using complicated phrases or ideas.

Moreover since we raised the concept of perspective earlier, you might want to think about how a freaky wolf-hybrid might view the world. It would certainly be different from a human (or humanoid) and thus Heulwen might use different ways of explaining things in order to get her point across.

[PullOfTheSpirit]

I really enjoy talking in Pirate. I should have been a Sarcosan Swashbuckler. Tell me, Cadrius, are there any Dwarven Pirates?

[Black Plauge]

Okay, let me reread what I just wrote and see if I need to change anything to take that into account.

I probably won't make any really drastic changes as Heulwen and Cytaill have only known each other a couple of months, so while she's probably some what used to his diffrent view of the world, she doesn't have all the nuances down yet.

[Dirigible]

Pull : See Time Bandits. It's got yer dwarven pirates, all right.

Or... tunnel pirates ! Swinging through the scaffolding of the mines, saying 'avast, by my grandmother's beard' and 'I'll make you ride the mine cart, Jim lad, arrrrgh' Letting of broadsides of cannon (silenced cannon...only you can prevent cave-ins!).